Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people come in their 40s and decide (once it's apparent their kids can't get into the same schools they did), "those schools are so OVER"

meanwhile, those grads are more diverse than ever, more on FA, less privileged, have more work experience coming into college than a generation before, and (pre this TO blip) scored higher on every metric.

plenty of us thought the Yalies (etc) from the class of 1995 were arrogant blowhards. but these kids? I'd take them every day over the previous model of an Ivy League grad

? most kids from those universities are not low income kids who worked their way through school.

About 11x more Pell-eligible kids now in the Ivy League than 15 years ago, let alone 30 years ago.

Anonymous wrote:^ I’d argue the opposite. Hyperselectivity actually dilutes the need to attend these colleges.

When the elite colleges were accepting 1/4 to 1/3 of applicants, I think the employers generally assumed there was legitimate, critical discernment going on in admissions, so they used the elite college admission as a lazy proxy for capabilities.

Now, everyone knows there are huge number of qualified applicants who get shut out, and who gets in to elite colleges is largely influenced by visceral feelings of the AOs and even more by chance. Therefore, it must be that the same kind of student who used to go to an elite college now goes elsewhere. Thus, they’ve broadened their searches. Is it still easier to get a job in consulting or banking from Penn or Princeton? Yes, if you’re already in college, sure. But if you’re still in HS or younger and that kind of career is your goal, given the exceptionally low probability of actually getting into Penn or Princeton, the better, safer bet is to try to get into a good but not hyper selective college and to do well there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every Single Person On This Board Would Jump At Harvard Over George Mason If Your Child Were Admitted And Could Afford It.

This entire post is just more white rage and post-hoc* justification.

* def.: after the fact

I think Silver is talking more about ROI than about people's individual preferences.

Nobody is going to get admitted to both Harvard and George Mason AND have to pay the same price to attend each one.

Anonymous wrote:safer bet is to try to get into a good but not hyper selective college and to do well there

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people come in their 40s and decide (once it's apparent their kids can't get into the same schools they did), "those schools are so OVER"

meanwhile, those grads are more diverse than ever, more on FA, less privileged, have more work experience coming into college than a generation before, and (pre this TO blip) scored higher on every metric.

plenty of us thought the Yalies (etc) from the class of 1995 were arrogant blowhards. but these kids? I'd take them every day over the previous model of an Ivy League grad

? most kids from those universities are not low income kids who worked their way through school.

Anonymous wrote:The seething resentment makes me think of the cultural revolution.

Child is at an Ivy. Happy and thriving, as she has finally found her people. That’s all that really matters to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.

You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More reasons your kids should go your neighborhood public HS. It’s free and will get your kids same state colleges.

You're assuming that the "neighborhood public HS" will prepare your kids equally well to get top grades, once they're attending the state colleges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only data he actually cites doesn’t really support his claim.

1. Public perception of higher education generally has slipped. This doesn’t support the claim that elite colleges are harmed more than state schools.

2. Polls that say private schools are not worth the cost of public. Again this doesn’t distinguish between “elite” and non elite public. Maybe people would say “yes, I wouldn’t pay for Elon but I think MIT is worth it”

3. Harvard perception. The division along political lines suggests that this is a political issue. Republicans voters have been told to hate those east coast liberal colleges and their students. But the average Republican voter isn’t hiring anyone. It would be more interesting to see a poll along socio economic and geographic lines. Do NYC republicans have the same view? That’s more relevant than people in Alabama.

Maybe the book will have more information but otherwise this seems like a whole lot of opinion and conjecture for now.

I'm a hiring manager who has definitely had opinions of elite colleges change over the last few years. Also a graduate of an elite college myself.

Should reread his post carefully instead of jumping to conclusions. Silver speaks to everything you raised.

Should understand that one or two people on DCUM doesn’t mean anything. That’s what Nate silver would tell you. I don’t think his data necessarily leads to his conclusions.

What’s really changed over the last few years other than elite college graduate GOP politicians deciding that elite colleges were a problem?

Anonymous wrote:The seething resentment makes me think of the cultural revolution.

Child is at an Ivy. Happy and thriving, as she has finally found her people. That’s all that really matters to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More reasons your kids should go your neighborhood public HS. It’s free and will get your kids same state colleges.

You're assuming that the "neighborhood public HS" will prepare your kids equally well to get top grades, once they're attending the state colleges.

Don’t worry. “State colleges” will prepare your kids as good as the “neighborhood public HS” for life.