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Anonymous wrote:I’m consciously not flying United now, due to this and their stated DEI hiring policy for pilots and all crews including maintenance.

Other than that, no changes in flight plans.

Sorry the world is too woke for you, snowflake. Glad you’ve created a safe space for yourself from the big, bad anti-racist folks out there. I know it’s hard.

It’s actually not hard at all. United announces new “standards” in pilot hiring. I don’t fly them anymore. What could be simpler?

Hardly. All candidates must still meet the FAA mandated minimums and pass all of the same tests, regardless or race or gender.

Meeting minimum standards and passing a test doesn't mean that you're the most qualified candidate.

Yes it literally does. There are multiple checkrides and exams that have to be passed plus have 1500 hours. Flying is not easy. If you’ve made it all the way to that level, you’re qualified.

Not true at all. Some pilots are obviously more skilled and more experienced than others. Social justice commentary on the internet might be your thing, but aviation certainly isn't.

This exactly. I know pilots who've skated through with multiple checkride failures (i.e., the same checkride multiple times) and though airlines will pull your entire FAA file and see this, they're desperate for warm bodies at this point and might not always care. PP is insane if he thinks every ATP is qualified.

Hmm let’s take a look at all of the high profile airplane crashes in the US in the past 20 years. Pretty sure 98% of the pilots were white men. I don’t think Marvin Renslow was a DEI hire.

Because most pilots are white men! Man, you are dumber than a box of rocks.

Ok and ad hominem attacks don't exactly make you seem like an intellectual heavyweight either

At least I know stats.

You haven’t posted any stats. Just blanket statements and recycled talking points.

Saying 98% of pilots involves in accidents are white men isn't stats because you used a number.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you have a flight booked - expensive, whole family, summer, Eurioe. What would you do? Cancel? Or still take the flight? It’s not refundable…

^^ it’s the 777-300ER

Well it either crashes or it doesn't, I think that means it's a 50/50 chance. Up to you if you like those odds

I'm pretty sure this poster is joking, but I will weigh in on this:
the Boeing 777 has never had a major fatal crash caused by airplane mechanics. There were two major crashes where everyone died (you've heard of them; both Malaysian air, both near each other in time) but both are believed to be caused by humans -- one was shot down and one they think was a pilot suicide sort of situation (but it's unclear). There have been other incidents of course, but nothing *near* the level of disaster experienced by the 737 max. The very first fatality of someone on a 777 was that Asiana flight that crash landed at SFO, and that was largely attributed to pilot error.

Additionally, the maligned 787 has never had a fatality either.

I grew up in Alaska and flights go down literally all the time there and I have zero problem getting in ANY jet engine aircraft because the benefits outweigh the risks every time. Commercial air travel is remarkably safe.

Do you fly Southwest? You're on a Boeing. Alaska? Boeing. United? Probably a Boeing. Note also that all three of those airlines, particularly Southwest, have pretty remarkable safety records and that largely has to do with crew and training, not equipment -- pilots and pilot error are a far bigger contributor to air safety risks than the plane itself.

I have pretty major issues with Boeing as a corporation, sure. That, largely, to me comes down to a lack of competition in the big plane marketplace, but there are other issues as well. But, ON BALANCE, it's still the safest way to get around.

Anonymous wrote:For a regular traveler without a lot of money and time, how does one avoid these planes beyond not flying at all?

Can't the airlines change up the actual plane at any point leading up to a flight? Even if I book a flight on a plane that is supposedly not a Boeing Max, couldn't they end up with a mechanical issue and end up subbing in any plane and passengers won't know until the day of what the plane is?

Or do they not make those kinds of changes?

Yes, as mentioned multiple times in this thread, plane type changes are quite common, especially among versions of the same plane, like the 737.

For a regular traveler without a lot of money and time, how does one avoid these planes beyond not flying at all?

Can't the airlines change up the actual plane at any point leading up to a flight? Even if I book a flight on a plane that is supposedly not a Boeing Max, couldn't they end up with a mechanical issue and end up subbing in any plane and passengers won't know until the day of what the plane is?

Or do they not make those kinds of changes?

No I don't trust Boeing.

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Anonymous wrote:https://www.npr.org/2024/03/12/1238033573/boeing-whistleblower-john-barnett-dead

Not a good look for Boeing.

“Suicide”.

Kind of suspicious

I am more worried now but the thing is the risk for me is worth flying. The inconvenience of only flying Airbus for me personally is not worth the risk of flying Boeing but that's my personal decision. I get why some would not fly it I really do. It's just that the odds are like winning lotto or something. Definitely not impossible I'm on a malfunctioning plane but with so many flights daily, chances are I'll be OK. But yeah, they are a horrible company!

Anonymous wrote:We canceled our trip and will pay close attention to future flights.

It must be hard to be as anxious as you.

We canceled our trip and will pay close attention to future flights.

Watch the documentary Downfall on Netflix.

It is certifiably insane no one from Boeing has ever gone to jail for killing people over the 737 Max disasters.

* Boeing didn't even tell piots about the MCAS system because they didn't want airlines to have to train pilots (which is a big negative for selling planes).

* MCAS is a critical safety system with a single point of failure. Terrible, terrible design. It basically takes over control of the plane from the pilot and forces the nose of the plane down and pilots get overwhelmed with what to do because they weren't trained.

* Boeing preemptively knew that their MCAS system would likely need pilot training but went out of their way to not even bring it up when the MAX first came out to avoid scrunity from the FAA and airlines.

* Boeing's own internal analysis and documents showed that if MCAS malfunctioned or was making errors, pilots only had 10 seconds to correct before catastrophic failure! Absolutely insane! How could a pilot address an issue with the aircraft due to a system that exists that they weren't even told about nor trained on? Boeing did finally have to tell pilots about the MCAS system after the Indonesian Lion Air crash, but the absurdity is that the Ethiopian pilots who crashed months later DID do everything Boeing taught them to do and yet they still crashed. It just shows you how utterly absurd the MCAS system was with only a 10 second room for error.

* After the Lion air crash, the FAA conducted a thorough audit and statically projected that the Max would have 15 crashes over the lifetime of the plane....one every two years or so. That would make it the worst, most unsafe planenl basically ever built for commercial aviation. What did Boeing do after they received the report from the FAA? Nothing! They basically gambled that no other crashes would happen until they could come out with a potential fix for the MCAS. Too bad that was a horrible miscalculation that cost everyone on the Ethiopian plane their lives. Any sane company staring down the barrel of a huge public safety risk like that would have put out a warning to stop using their product and issued a recall or let the issue be known to the public.

Absolutely disgusting corporate malfeasance. Honestly, that kind of gross negligence and knowingly burying major safety problems/changes to the aircraft all so you can make your stock price goes up should warrant life in prison or capital punishment.

*

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Anonymous wrote:I’m consciously not flying United now, due to this and their stated DEI hiring policy for pilots and all crews including maintenance.

Other than that, no changes in flight plans.

Sorry the world is too woke for you, snowflake. Glad you’ve created a safe space for yourself from the big, bad anti-racist folks out there. I know it’s hard.

It’s actually not hard at all. United announces new “standards” in pilot hiring. I don’t fly them anymore. What could be simpler?

Hardly. All candidates must still meet the FAA mandated minimums and pass all of the same tests, regardless or race or gender.

Meeting minimum standards and passing a test doesn't mean that you're the most qualified candidate.

Yes it literally does. There are multiple checkrides and exams that have to be passed plus have 1500 hours. Flying is not easy. If you’ve made it all the way to that level, you’re qualified.

Not true at all. Some pilots are obviously more skilled and more experienced than others. Social justice commentary on the internet might be your thing, but aviation certainly isn't.

This exactly. I know pilots who've skated through with multiple checkride failures (i.e., the same checkride multiple times) and though airlines will pull your entire FAA file and see this, they're desperate for warm bodies at this point and might not always care. PP is insane if he thinks every ATP is qualified.

Hmm let’s take a look at all of the high profile airplane crashes in the US in the past 20 years. Pretty sure 98% of the pilots were white men. I don’t think Marvin Renslow was a DEI hire.

Because most pilots are white men! Man, you are dumber than a box of rocks.

Ok and ad hominem attacks don't exactly make you seem like an intellectual heavyweight either

At least I know stats.

You haven’t posted any stats. Just blanket statements and recycled talking points.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m consciously not flying United now, due to this and their stated DEI hiring policy for pilots and all crews including maintenance.

Other than that, no changes in flight plans.

Sorry the world is too woke for you, snowflake. Glad you’ve created a safe space for yourself from the big, bad anti-racist folks out there. I know it’s hard.

It’s actually not hard at all. United announces new “standards” in pilot hiring. I don’t fly them anymore. What could be simpler?

Hardly. All candidates must still meet the FAA mandated minimums and pass all of the same tests, regardless or race or gender.

Meeting minimum standards and passing a test doesn't mean that you're the most qualified candidate.

Yes it literally does. There are multiple checkrides and exams that have to be passed plus have 1500 hours. Flying is not easy. If you’ve made it all the way to that level, you’re qualified.

Not true at all. Some pilots are obviously more skilled and more experienced than others. Social justice commentary on the internet might be your thing, but aviation certainly isn't.

This exactly. I know pilots who've skated through with multiple checkride failures (i.e., the same checkride multiple times) and though airlines will pull your entire FAA file and see this, they're desperate for warm bodies at this point and might not always care. PP is insane if he thinks every ATP is qualified.

Hmm let’s take a look at all of the high profile airplane crashes in the US in the past 20 years. Pretty sure 98% of the pilots were white men. I don’t think Marvin Renslow was a DEI hire.

Because most pilots are white men! Man, you are dumber than a box of rocks.

Ok and ad hominem attacks don't exactly make you seem like an intellectual heavyweight either

At least I know stats.

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I fly Airbus.

Boeing has a long history of cutting corners for profit.

Please see John Oliver's lecture here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8oCilY4szc

Airbus is worse euro trash. Sound of barking dogs on turn in and the engines sound like they are going to fall off during takeoff.

Yes, I trust. Anybody who’s basing their opinion on something they streamed needs to pipe down. A documentary is just an opinion, there’s nobody independently fact checking or monitoring. In fact, there’s a greater incentive for a documentary to have an untrue by salacious story than a boring true one. Think critically, ppl.

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Anonymous wrote:I’m consciously not flying United now, due to this and their stated DEI hiring policy for pilots and all crews including maintenance.

Other than that, no changes in flight plans.

Sorry the world is too woke for you, snowflake. Glad you’ve created a safe space for yourself from the big, bad anti-racist folks out there. I know it’s hard.

It’s actually not hard at all. United announces new “standards” in pilot hiring. I don’t fly them anymore. What could be simpler?

Hardly. All candidates must still meet the FAA mandated minimums and pass all of the same tests, regardless or race or gender.

Meeting minimum standards and passing a test doesn't mean that you're the most qualified candidate.

Yes it literally does. There are multiple checkrides and exams that have to be passed plus have 1500 hours. Flying is not easy. If you’ve made it all the way to that level, you’re qualified.

I am also pretty sure that anyone who meets those qualifications is getting hired now, because there is a shortage. And to the horrors of that PP, some of them are black. It's hard out there for a racist.

Someone advocating for racial preferences in hiring is calling someone else a racist LMAO

NP, here. I have nothing against DEI. In fact, at my workplace, I think it’s great that leadership isn’t all old white guys. As an old white guy, I can say that…i think. Regarding pilots, whether you’re whites, black or purple, it should be the best and the brightest at the controls. I don’t see why everybody wouldn’t want that?

The problem is that those two positions are in conflict with each other. DEI in reality isn't about just "looking harder." The reality is that oftentimes very few qualified minority candidates exist, so standards are lowered to boost the numbers. Anyway, lets get back to the POS Max lol

How have the standards been lowered? Please cite examples. Otherwise you’re just parroting RW/Fox news talking points.

Examples of how racial preferences usually result in the lowering of standards? Just look to college admissions or the Fed govt. Also, every racial preference results in someone being denied an opportunity because of their race. I'm surprised that I have to explain this to you.

Try to stay on topic. We’re talking about flying.

Also I’ve seen the pictures of recent pilot hires at my airline and others - still 95% white guys.

Says the DEI cult member/troll hijacking the thread