Anonymous wrote:There is also a new emphasis of the value of a woman or “overvalue” shall I say. Everyone is valuable in my opinion. However women today have this sense that they have far more to offer and men ought to really earn it to be with them.

Perhaps one solution would be for women to elect the men they want instead of sitting there and have men chase them. If women actually go out there and pick and choose I am sure they will be happier with their choice.

It is not going to happen. Women are not going to chase men no way. They would rather have 100 men chase them and they reject every single one of them them. Every rejection will further boost her ego.

Too many alternatives to coupling up that require less effort than having to deal with another person’s idiosyncrasies:
- Video games
- Streaming content
- Social media
- Pornography

By the time one has exhausted their interest in those things and starts feeling lonely, it is sometimes too late. They are overweight, uninteresting, unappealing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to simplify it to this degree but I think it’s the quality of men. Women are outpacing men in education and careers.

There’s too many men who are permanent children and even if they get an education and work, they still expect women to take care of them (whether it’s mom or their wife).

Women would rather be alone than settle for these low quality options.

Women don’t understand that their education and career doesn’t mean squat if there’s no one desiring them, and later wanting kids with them, and later taking care of them once they are old.
So they think they can trick nature and be “independent”.
I am a woman fwiw

That is ridiculous. You must be over 60. My education and finances mean way more to me that getting married. I am in my 40s. Marriage sucked and I got divorced BECAUSE I COULD AFFORD to.

Hey, hey! This isn't an age thing! I'm 58 and totally agree that I'd rather be alone than settle for a "low quality" DH!

Fortunately for me, I don't. I have always made more $$ than DH and have more higher ed than he does. But, he's a feminist, a fabulous lover (best I ever had!), is a good partner and has the emotional intelligence and availability that I desire most in a partner. If I wanted more HHI, I'd go earn it myself.

Been married 25+ years.

Congrats on your femininity husband. And your point is? I am kind of confused

There is also a new emphasis of the value of a woman or “overvalue” shall I say. Everyone is valuable in my opinion. However women today have this sense that they have far more to offer and men ought to really earn it to be with them.

Perhaps one solution would be for women to elect the men they want instead of sitting there and have men chase them. If women actually go out there and pick and choose I am sure they will be happier with their choice.

Female hypergamy

Social media and online dating has probably made things worse. It gives people more options than they should have and people don’t settle down because they may have better options.

I met Dh over 20 years the old fashioned way in real life. He wasn’t getting matches or swipes or whatever you call them now. We were busy with school and work, saw one another, got married and had 3 kids.

My BIL is meeting new people on dating apps constantly. He is never fully committed even when he has a girlfriend. I remember he had a girlfriend a few years ago and I guess my son had overheard a phone conversation about one of his dates in the car and mentioned. BIL was like don’t mention that please in front of the girlfriend. It is like ordering Uber eats. You get matched with some pretty girl and you meet up. Why not?

I didn’t date in this generation but I can’t imagine how furious I would be if Dh was meeting girls from apps while dating me.

In olden days people like Albert Einstein, Charles Darwin, Roosevelt,
Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Queen Elizbeth, Queen Victoria etc married their cousins but genetic research changed that, now people don't even consider their fourth cousin, twice removed.


For whatever reason, it is still legal for second cousins to marry in all US states. First cousin marriages are permitted in: Alabama, California, Colorado, Connecticut, the District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, New Mexico, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont.

Anonymous wrote:It seems people find good options but are told to have several relationships and not commit before 35, which often means missing their best opportunities. It eliminates high school, college and grad school relationships. Not many go to church or stay in same town where they grow up so eliminates people you know well. Its a huge no to let parents set them up or marrying even distant cousins so that eliminates many options. Its frowned upon to get involved with co-workers so that eliminates others. Only options seems to be people at random dating apps, bars or parties, most of which turns out duds.

I was nodding along until cousins...what?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to simplify it to this degree but I think it’s the quality of men. Women are outpacing men in education and careers.

There’s too many men who are permanent children and even if they get an education and work, they still expect women to take care of them (whether it’s mom or their wife).

Women would rather be alone than settle for these low quality options.

Women don’t understand that their education and career doesn’t mean squat if there’s no one desiring them, and later wanting kids with them, and later taking care of them once they are old.
So they think they can trick nature and be “independent”.
I am a woman fwiw

That is ridiculous. You must be over 60. My education and finances mean way more to me that getting married. I am in my 40s. Marriage sucked and I got divorced BECAUSE I COULD AFFORD to.

Hey, hey! This isn't an age thing! I'm 58 and totally agree that I'd rather be alone than settle for a "low quality" DH!

Fortunately for me, I don't. I have always made more $$ than DH and have more higher ed than he does. But, he's a feminist, a fabulous lover (best I ever had!), is a good partner and has the emotional intelligence and availability that I desire most in a partner. If I wanted more HHI, I'd go earn it myself.

Been married 25+ years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to simplify it to this degree but I think it’s the quality of men. Women are outpacing men in education and careers.

There’s too many men who are permanent children and even if they get an education and work, they still expect women to take care of them (whether it’s mom or their wife).

Women would rather be alone than settle for these low quality options.

So only quality of men has declined, women's quality didn't deteriorate equally?

No that’s the point: women are more adaptable socially . There are plenty of books like “Why boys fail” etc explaining this

Lol. Women have not "adapted". They have become more entitled

Disagree. Women have adapted. Society now says we do not have to marry the first man who proposes. We don't have to start having babies as soon as possible. We can go to university because we are intelligent and interested in things. We can have careers without the automatic assumption that we will stop working when we marry and have babies. A man has to offer more than simply the ability to pay the bills, and since that has been the main thing men have been valued for, many of them have focused on just that and don't have more to offer. They don't focus on developing their personalities or social skills or interests. They are boring.

Funny, it's this very "I'm worth more than ... pick any subject" that has made my age group walk away time and time again. I am no engaged, but she is level headed and doesn't have that "feminist" stick up her a ... that you clearly do. The only person hung up on your perceived expectations is you and women who think like you, I don't know one single man who expects these things of the women in their life, not one. I do hope that you enjoy your own company, it's all you'll ever had with your attitude about men.

Right. Eventually they all convince themselves that they don't need a man after they realize they aren't getting one

This.

I never thought I needed a man. I had several options. I realized that I REALLY did not need one after I was married. I got rid of him. Life is better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to simplify it to this degree but I think it’s the quality of men. Women are outpacing men in education and careers.

There’s too many men who are permanent children and even if they get an education and work, they still expect women to take care of them (whether it’s mom or their wife).

Women would rather be alone than settle for these low quality options.

Women don’t understand that their education and career doesn’t mean squat if there’s no one desiring them, and later wanting kids with them, and later taking care of them once they are old.
So they think they can trick nature and be “independent”.
I am a woman fwiw

That is ridiculous. You must be over 60. My education and finances mean way more to me that getting married. I am in my 40s. Marriage sucked and I got divorced BECAUSE I COULD AFFORD to.

Anonymous wrote:They don’t want to marry people that they don’t get along with, share a values system with, or share common goals with.

Also, some people have always lied about these things in order to get married and then changed their views after the wedding and those usually end in divorce or living separate lives in the same household.

Neither sounds appealing.

It’s also a lot of hard work to maintain relationships and many people just don’t want to do all that work. It’s easier to just have serial monogamy in those cases.

None of this is new with any generation. I know Boomers who are gay and in heterosexual marriages for example. They either end in divorce or they just live like asexual siblings and who knows what they do in their free time.

The above happened to me. I was married in 2009 and divorced in 2020. It has always been hard. People who are not tricked are more careful with the decision than in the past. There is also much less pressure now to marry by a certain age than there was 15-40 years ago. I think a lot has changed in the last 15 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another incel thread. Half the threads in here are incel crap

What's incel?

Just a made up word to make fun of men.

Anonymous wrote:Another incel thread. Half the threads in here are incel crap

What's incel?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was is always so hard for American youth to find good partners or is this a new issue? I see so many in their late 20's-late 30's who want to find ling term partners but things just don't work out. Why is that so?

Yes

Previously, many more women were trapped in bad marriages with partners they settled on because they couldn’t support themselves as singles.

Correct. The fundamental shift that occurred in society is that women are no longer economically dependent on men for survival. Therefore men were almost entitled to a spouse/sexual partner. This shift harmed lower class men the most in terms of dating prospects.