Anonymous wrote:A lot of kids don't necessarily want to take all APs, but feel like they have to take them b/c "everyone else is doing it."

Honest conversations. Maybe a college advisor meeting. Many teenagers don’t know a lot about the college landscape; they don’t realize how competitive it is. They feed off each other and get misinformation. They also don’t realize that distinguishing yourself outside of the classroom is a good use of time (and it can be in fairly simple ways).

They might also like hearing that there are so many terrific schools that don’t require all this BS. I tell this to my kid all the time and it’s helped them have a more flexible outlook.

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Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

My DD is in at several T75’s with a C (APWorld). With excellent merit. So yes, they will.

That’s good to hear!

A lot of kids don't necessarily want to take all APs, but feel like they have to take them b/c "everyone else is doing it."

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Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

It should be a student decision. My kid wants to push for max rigor, which i don’t see the upside of. But I cannot persuade her otherwise. Her life, her choice. If my kid wanted to do regular Econ/gov like you suggested, I would be more than happy with that. Afterall, getting into a top school is HIGHLY unlikely anyway. So kids need to do what makes them happy!

PP here - My kid is taking the APs b/c that's what they think they need to do. They are also disappointed that their senior year looks like it will be just as hard as junior year when they've watched older students take it a little easier in years past. They "know" they need to take the high rigor classes, but are also not happy with the situation.

It sounds like they’re not a good candidate for a slate of AP classes if their heart is not in it. All you can do is advise them, and let them make their own choice.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

My DD is in at several T75’s with a C (APWorld). With excellent merit. So yes, they will.

Actually 2 C’s. She struggled with precalc that semester too.

Is it UMass? She can be buddy with my DD!!

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

It should be a student decision. My kid wants to push for max rigor, which i don’t see the upside of. But I cannot persuade her otherwise. Her life, her choice. If my kid wanted to do regular Econ/gov like you suggested, I would be more than happy with that. Afterall, getting into a top school is HIGHLY unlikely anyway. So kids need to do what makes them happy!

This is the answer. My sophomore is going for max rigor junior year. When I suggested he might step back a little, he looked at me as though I were crazy. He has reached the point that he does not care if he makes a B, and prefers the challenge over the hope of a perfect GPA. He has also suggested that he may cut back to 3 or 4 APs senior year (continuing with max rigor in math & science + AP Lit) but taking a few non-AP social sciences or - the horror! - have a free period at the end of the day so he can leave school early. I've advised him what that might mean with regard to college admissions, but he is okay with his choices.

And honestly it feels a little freeing to know that your kid is okay with a B down the line - it's as if we are no longer sitting on pins and needles waiting for the "not-A" to drop -

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

My DD is in at several T75’s with a C (APWorld). With excellent merit. So yes, they will.

Actually 2 C’s. She struggled with precalc that semester too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

My DD is in at several T75’s with a C (APWorld). With excellent merit. So yes, they will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

It should be a student decision. My kid wants to push for max rigor, which i don’t see the upside of. But I cannot persuade her otherwise. Her life, her choice. If my kid wanted to do regular Econ/gov like you suggested, I would be more than happy with that. Afterall, getting into a top school is HIGHLY unlikely anyway. So kids need to do what makes them happy!

PP here - My kid is taking the APs b/c that's what they think they need to do. They are also disappointed that their senior year looks like it will be just as hard as junior year when they've watched older students take it a little easier in years past. They "know" they need to take the high rigor classes, but are also not happy with the situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Will T75 take a student with a C?? I don’t think so… top 75 schools are still selective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a messed up game they have to play, or they pay the price for it. My kids have switched if the teacher is not good, or a hard grader, even if they'd prefer the class theoretically. Having a C on transcript would have too much of an impact and create huge amounts of stress.

A C screws you for T30.

So shoot for T75. So much less stress. And honestly, the education is going to be just as good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

It should be a student decision. My kid wants to push for max rigor, which i don’t see the upside of. But I cannot persuade her otherwise. Her life, her choice. If my kid wanted to do regular Econ/gov like you suggested, I would be more than happy with that. Afterall, getting into a top school is HIGHLY unlikely anyway. So kids need to do what makes them happy!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

Mine took a full load of rigor, including AP Gov and Econ senior year. I'm not sure it made a difference in his happiness or his college outcomes. He's a hard worker with good grades and decent test scores and has had good luck with target schools and not as great with reach schools. He's likely to end up at our state flagship with good scholarships, but also with kids who have much lower stats.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?

Unfortunately or fortunately, senior year is where the strength of your courseload matters much more than the grades...and certainly much more than your final grades. I hate to say it, but if your kid has been all AP through junior year and you care about Top 20, just keep with it. Many schools, especially EA and ED, make their decision without knowing any of your senior year grades. They won't rescind admission for a final transcript with several Bs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, one B does not preclude getting admitted to T20.

+2 Kids can have some Bs on their transcripts! I suspect it is public school parents saying you can’t have any Bs and they are at schools where the teachers don’t give Bs at all so a B would be shocking. Lots of Bs given out at my DC’s private school.

I sat in on some zoom "info sessions" at top 20 schools (and high ranking liberal arts colleges). They tried not to say it but, in the end, you need to take the most rigorous classes and get As. Without some special circumstances, this is the reality at most of the brand name schools.

But also the reality is that even with all As in the most rigorous classes, the very likely outcome is they still don't get into the T20 schools so why should that drive the HS choices. Lighten up on the rigor so you can enjoy your life, maybe you'll still get some Bs. And you'll likely end up at college with a lot of the kids who made themselves crazy in HS trying to meet that standard.

This is something that keeps bouncing around in my head for my current junior. The debate over more rigor senior year vs. an easier course (since fre period is basically a no-no these days) does not feel settled. Is it better to take regular gov or regular econ and have some breathing room or push for all APs to show rigor? Will it make a difference in results? Will it make a difference in happiness?