Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

So what’s your solution?

DP. Maybe smart/normal. Kids that aren't psychotically hell-bent on the end goal of an Ivy/top 10 and entire childhood was molded by parents and private counselors and tiger moms for that end goal. Those applications are pretty easy to identify. You can see it by activities, essays, personality, etc.

I'd take a happy, fun-loving kid that manages to get good grades and test scores--but exudes happiness. Looks like they had time for fun, in addition to being a good student. Less academic competitions in lieu of childhood/teen experiences.

Balance.

This just sounds like you kvetching over the fact that your kid ended up at UMBC or JMU rather than an Ivy.

My kids aren’t even in middle school yet but I have two HYPS degrees and completely agree with PP. My balanced classmates (the academic superstars who knew how to have fun) got the most out of school and ended up most successful in their careers.

I am surprised that no one is seeing the irony here. This is a story/thread about the tragic loss of bright young lives; there is clear data in the mental health literature that young adults are experiencing unprecedented levels of stress, lack social and emotional supports, are facing challenging job markets and economic uncertainties. All of these factors have been linked to poor mental health outcomes and increased risk of suicide (so is being young, male, in periods of life transition and a host of other factors). The posters in this thread are looking to blame a host of factors---these kids must be mentally ill! the universities are not taking care of them! it's grade deflation!--and discounting any suggestion that these kids and young adults are experiencing extraordinary amounts of pressure to achieve.

This forum is filled with parents agonizing over whether Junior should take the SAT a third or fourth time because they have not gotten a perfect score. Or asking about what classes middle schoolers need to take in order to get into a T20 school. Or slamming others achievements or school choices--your kid will never get a job or into grad school if they don't go to a T10 school. Or ridiculing kids for their academic interests--they will be unemployed if they don't get a STEM degree. Or their grades. Or piling on when someone doesn't get into a target school--they had no chance with grades like that!

The hyper demanding and hypercompetitive environment of modern parenting and the cruelly hypercritical nattering nabobs of social media is crushing the souls of these young people. These kids are living in a hell of their parents making and being forced to try to meet unrealistic standards.

Maybe it is time for folks to rethink what they are saying to posters who come asking for guidance or looking for help. Maybe offer more positive and supportive feedback. Maybe let your kids know that they have more value than an SAT score. I don't know. This whole thread is heartbreaking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

So what’s your solution?

DP. Maybe smart/normal. Kids that aren't psychotically hell-bent on the end goal of an Ivy/top 10 and entire childhood was molded by parents and private counselors and tiger moms for that end goal. Those applications are pretty easy to identify. You can see it by activities, essays, personality, etc.

I'd take a happy, fun-loving kid that manages to get good grades and test scores--but exudes happiness. Looks like they had time for fun, in addition to being a good student. Less academic competitions in lieu of childhood/teen experiences.

Balance.

Ditto! They encourage applicants to be different/unique etc... however they keep admitting a 'formulaic' kid. Maybe make use of those application interviews, make them a little longer and utilize the info they garner.

To add, there’s a lot of pressure to be “unique” or different…but that’s just another layer that brings stress!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

So what’s your solution?

DP. Maybe smart/normal. Kids that aren't psychotically hell-bent on the end goal of an Ivy/top 10 and entire childhood was molded by parents and private counselors and tiger moms for that end goal. Those applications are pretty easy to identify. You can see it by activities, essays, personality, etc.

I'd take a happy, fun-loving kid that manages to get good grades and test scores--but exudes happiness. Looks like they had time for fun, in addition to being a good student. Less academic competitions in lieu of childhood/teen experiences.

Balance.

This just sounds like you kvetching over the fact that your kid ended up at UMBC or JMU rather than an Ivy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

So what’s your solution?

DP. Maybe smart/normal. Kids that aren't psychotically hell-bent on the end goal of an Ivy/top 10 and entire childhood was molded by parents and private counselors and tiger moms for that end goal. Those applications are pretty easy to identify. You can see it by activities, essays, personality, etc.

I'd take a happy, fun-loving kid that manages to get good grades and test scores--but exudes happiness. Looks like they had time for fun, in addition to being a good student. Less academic competitions in lieu of childhood/teen experiences.

Balance.

Ditto! They encourage applicants to be different/unique etc... however they keep admitting a 'formulaic' kid. Maybe make use of those application interviews, make them a little longer and utilize the info they garner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

So what’s your solution?

First the school should openly acknowledge this is an issue on their campus. At least that tells me you recognize the problem and thus may be open to looking for ways to improve the situation. Second, start putting some of that money towards mental health supports and services, there are those that will tell you there are counseling services on campus however McCosh is very inadequate for a school with the stature of Princeton. Stop sweeping things under the rug and playing hardball with media searching for info and reporting on these issues, makes it look like you're really hiding something that may make you even more liable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

So what’s your solution?

DP. Maybe smart/normal. Kids that aren't psychotically hell-bent on the end goal of an Ivy/top 10 and entire childhood was molded by parents and private counselors and tiger moms for that end goal. Those applications are pretty easy to identify. You can see it by activities, essays, personality, etc.

I'd take a happy, fun-loving kid that manages to get good grades and test scores--but exudes happiness. Looks like they had time for fun, in addition to being a good student. Less academic competitions in lieu of childhood/teen experiences.

Balance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

So what’s your solution?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

Other schools also have high depression and suicide rates, though some not as reported on. Dartmouth does not have the same pressure-cooker reputation as Princeton but has high suicide rates. There’s a lot hidden at even UCLA- they don’t want it to get reported on/contagion effect.

Not to be insensitive, but the issues he finds at Princeton are not at all unique to the school.

Anonymous wrote:He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Princeton is admitting a "certain type of kid" then looking askance as those kids develop depression and worse suicides. The school and some alumni will, in so many words, say "well they just couldn't cut it, look how happy and fun the alumni and reunions are". But how do you say that when the school continues to have a track record of admitting those types of kids and the resulting increasing depressions and suicides relative to their peer schools. Something is not right. That place is a real life example of "not all that glitters is gold".

For males, especially, a lot of serious mental health issues do not present until later adolescence--18-22-- in college years basically.

And, regarding the number of Asian suicides at PU--there is still a very big stigma about mental illness in the Asian community. They are less likely to identify and treat it. A light was shown on this with the VT mass shooter.

There was another horrific mental illness--beheading in dining hall at VT by Asian. It didn't get much news since it was relatively soon after the mass shooting.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34510604

We have a HUGE mental crisis problem in this country and not enough resources, beds or support systems. Period.

He would probably be equally or even more unhappy at a larger school with less support. Princeton is hardly the only school with pressure to obtain certain desirable jobs and is highly competitive.

Asian Princeton kid on YouTube sounds so unhappy there. Is it that bad?

Anonymous wrote:As a PP above said: most current students never speak of "loving" their time at Princeton. Princeton becomes more fun and memorable after they leave as evidenced by the re-unions. In fact the enthusiasm for the reunions gives me the impression of a group that has been through some "tough" social and academic trenches and now, on some level, realize the difficult experience didn't really matter in the grand scheme of life.

This is just nuts. Maybe you're a Princeton alum who didn't have a great experience. It happens, and some graduates are candid about it. Or maybe you're just conjuring it this theory for whatever reason.

But, overall, students who don't have a good experience at a school don't turn into loyal alumni. They collect their diplomas and move on.

In comparison, Princeton alumni go back (in large numbers for major reunions), wear ridiculous orange and black beer jackets, and revel in songs about "the best damn place of all." Not because it was college boot camp, but because they have good memories and want to return to campus. And there's a poster on this very thread speaking to what a great experience her son, a recent graduate, had there.

The recent student deaths are concerning. Most of the students were Asian, and Princeton reportedly has the second-highest percentage of Asian undergraduates among the Ivies. If they need to do something to better equip those students (and all entering students) to deal with setbacks once on campus, they should look for a way to do it. But you don't eliminate academic rigor simply because some students are used to only getting As their entire lives.