I'm shocked and even in past years more than half of students are passing but not proficient in their Algebra 2 SOLs.

I'd say that means they are advancing too quickly. Yet the effect seems the same regardless of grade level of course. So it seems there are substantial cohorts of students advancing 2 years ahead when 1 was enough, and advancing 3 years ahead when 2 was enough.
Or TJ has up to half it's population being kids who "get" math quite but aren't great at understanding it.

Anyway, these 9th graders in Geometry, while older than previous geometry students, are doing just as well (slightly better even) as those students who advanced more quickly

Here's the SOL tables for recent years and grades and courses.

https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex/f?p=152:1:15235566613501:SHOW_REPORT::::

Grade 10 Geometry, 2022-2023
98 total
98 passing (including proficient and non-proficient)
58 proficient

There are more students in Geometry 10th than Geometry 9th.
( This might because the only way to take Geometry SOL in 9th is to do summer-before-9th Geometry , since TJ teaches Research Stats 1 first, then Geometry split across 2 years or 1 semester only for all of Algebra 2.)

The vast majority are still in Algebra 2 (or higher, but higher is not reported in SOL) in 9th.

Previous years had data, but was too low to to report numbers for 10th Geometry.

The obvious solution for underprivileged kids is so simple, one wonders what political forces oppose it
Smart, high potential kids got less preparation through trade 8. Fine, let's fix that. Give them 9th grade to prep for enriched (not advanced!) high school, and then enter high school a year later.

Stop the nonsense age-based games.

Oh no, you cry! But then more people will be qualified for advanced high school education, but we only allow 550 students to obtain it! How will we prove the eliteness of MY children?!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

Around 30%

This is a lie. It's 9 Algebra 1 kids, and they all returned to base school.

Cite please?

Hard to believe TJ has admitted 100 kids with just Algebra 1 kids. where did you get that number from?

State SOLs show about 100 tenth graders at TJ taking the Geometry SOL. This is well known.

The 100 is not number of students but 100% of students who took the SOL and passed. If one student took that SOL, and passed it would show as 100%.

Luckily VDOE shows how many took the test. Not sure why you are arguing against this well known fact.

can you post the link where it shows number of students instead of percent specifically for Geometry in TJ 9th?

Just go to the VDoE sol results site and use count instead of rate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, I know my DC. But if neither parents have math/science background, is there a way to determine if DC's math level is sufficient to be successful at TJ? There is plenty discussion here about how TJ kids struggle with mental stress, lack of sleep, play constant catch-up trying to get out of Cs & Ds, etc. If DC is not ready to do regular (not honors/advanced) TJ math with ease, it doesnt make sense to put them through the stress and convince them it's ok to be at the bottom of the class.

Go to a Kumon center and ask them to give DC a placement test in math. Those used to be no cost, but even if there is a modest cost, have DC take that test, and learn where Kumon thinks the student’s math skills really are. That will NOT be a perfect measure, but it would be a reasonably objective metric without any “grade inflation”. (Kumon will teach students at very high math levels, including more advanced Calculus.). Then decide for yourself if TJ is a good fit.

Regardless, please understand that many TJ students (and other FCPS students doing well in math) have had years and years of outside math supplementing (from AoPS, Kumon, Mathnasium, or RSM) to get them prepped for TJ. It is common for this to start by 3rd or 4th grade, and some kids start earlier than that. Supplementing for years is not required, and is not what FCPS wants to hear, but it sure does help.

Yep, here comes the Aops/RMS.. booster. I see a pattern similar to other posts; a sockpuppet poster sets up the question then they swoops in and recommends Aops/RMS/etc afterschool math enrichment classes.

Oh, it's far far worst than that!
There is a huge cabal of enrichment teachers, students, and parents, all promoting the evils of math enrichment!

All dedicated to one cause: to convince you that studying math beyond the core average curriculum will help you succeed in your education and career!

So devious!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

Around 30%

This is a lie. It's 9 Algebra 1 kids, and they all returned to base school.

Cite please?

Hard to believe TJ has admitted 100 kids with just Algebra 1 kids. where did you get that number from?

State SOLs show about 100 tenth graders at TJ taking the Geometry SOL. This is well known.

Tenth graders? So they took Algebra in 9th?

No they probably took the RS1 fall and then TJ Math 1 in Spring and TJ Math 2 in fall 10th grade. This would have completed their Geometry requirement (TJ math 1/2). Then they would have taken the geometry sol in 10th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

Around 30%

This is a lie. It's 9 Algebra 1 kids, and they all returned to base school.

Cite please?

Hard to believe TJ has admitted 100 kids with just Algebra 1 kids. where did you get that number from?

State SOLs show about 100 tenth graders at TJ taking the Geometry SOL. This is well known.

Tenth graders? So they took Algebra in 9th?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kid brains develop differently. Some may be “good” at math even if they weren’t quite ready for algebra in 7th.

Conveniently, back in the day they had things called entrance tests and teacher recommendations to identify those kids.

Admitting kids who are in Algebra in 8th is fine if the kid's teacher thinks the kid is something special, the kid crushed some sort of entrance test, the kid has some other spectacular achievements, or in some way truly demonstrated that they would be successful at TJ. In the past, the Algebra I admits likely were successful TJ students, because they got in on the strength of a much more comprehensive application packet.

Admitting them based on shallow essays, a desire for racial balancing, and the hopes that they are diamonds in the rough rather than just being somewhat above average is neither fair to the kids who deserved the TJ spot nor to the kids being set up to fail at TJ.

They do use screening tools to determine when kids take pre-algebra.

Algebra in 8th is fine for any STEM kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

Around 30%

This is a lie. It's 9 Algebra 1 kids, and they all returned to base school.

Cite please?

Hard to believe TJ has admitted 100 kids with just Algebra 1 kids. where did you get that number from?

State SOLs show about 100 tenth graders at TJ taking the Geometry SOL. This is well known.

The 100 is not number of students but 100% of students who took the SOL and passed. If one student took that SOL, and passed it would show as 100%.

Luckily VDOE shows how many took the test. Not sure why you are arguing against this well known fact.

can you post the link where it shows number of students instead of percent specifically for Geometry in TJ 9th?

Anonymous wrote:Kid brains develop differently. Some may be “good” at math even if they weren’t quite ready for algebra in 7th.

Conveniently, back in the day they had things called entrance tests and teacher recommendations to identify those kids.

Admitting kids who are in Algebra in 8th is fine if the kid's teacher thinks the kid is something special, the kid crushed some sort of entrance test, the kid has some other spectacular achievements, or in some way truly demonstrated that they would be successful at TJ. In the past, the Algebra I admits likely were successful TJ students, because they got in on the strength of a much more comprehensive application packet.

Admitting them based on shallow essays, a desire for racial balancing, and the hopes that they are diamonds in the rough rather than just being somewhat above average is neither fair to the kids who deserved the TJ spot nor to the kids being set up to fail at TJ.

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

But that's exactly the point, one shouldn't have to enrich if everything worked well and actual math was taught in school. There's no easy fix to that other without major changes to the system, and as a result there is no easy fix for parents with money who perceive that their child does not learn and therefore can't compete with others. This is the exact thing with many other things in this area. Consider travel sports, or music. Music in particular is really bad; very few kids can effectively learn an instrument without private lessons. Why is that? Because the schools are barely able to teach them in band or strings class at school. They could do it, but not without more resources, money, and additional music classes each week.

Most of the demand for enrichment programs leans towards the higher end of the rigor scale, as public schools have restricted accelerated learning opportunities. This has led even poor parents to gather pocket change for programs like Kumon. However, the real concern lies elsewhere. Over 6 full middle schools have students who are not receiving the minimum required grade-level math education of Algebra 1 in 8th grade. The proposed solution of pushing 1 or 2 of those students who have just finished Algebra 1 in 8th grade into TJ does not address the plight of thousands of innocent students who are lacking basic grade-level math education.

The education gap in all subjects starts at birth. Parents who read to their kids, play games with their kids, teach colors/shapes/letters/numbers to their kids start their kids off on a strong foot in K. Many of those kids pick up reading and writing in K. They are ahead in math. These kids tend to be middle class and upper middle class and rich. The parents in these groups tend to be educated and understand the importance of reading to their kids and doing other fun things that teach their kids as toddlers and in Pre-K. These families can also afford preschools that reinforce these lessons and/or Nannies/Au Pairs that work on these skills.

Kids from families were the parents do not have an education or have only a high school degree tend not to read to to heir kids and do the other academic activities that prepare their kids for school. They also are less likely to be able to afford or send their kids to preschools that can help prepare their kids for school. The kids show up at K with less time spent in an academic environment and less exposure to academics. They are behind from day 1.

The schools are doing what they can but they are not going to be able to fill that gap because the parents are unable to help their kids with school work at home while the higher SES families are able to support at home or hire tutors if their kids need help.

9th grade used to be the norm for Algebra 1 and a good percentage of kids in higher SES families will end up in Algebra 1 in 9th grade. If kids from Title 1 schools are ending up in Algebra 1 by 9th grade then they are on track. The kids getting there in 8th grade are ahead of the game.

We have to stop expecting that schools can magically fill the gaps because they cannot. Title 1 schools have smaller classes, more Teachers, more specialists, and free summer school. I am not sure what else you think they can do. And the answer is not to hold back the kids whose parents read to them and introduced them to academics at a younger age.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

But that's exactly the point, one shouldn't have to enrich if everything worked well and actual math was taught in school. There's no easy fix to that other without major changes to the system, and as a result there is no easy fix for parents with money who perceive that their child does not learn and therefore can't compete with others. This is the exact thing with many other things in this area. Consider travel sports, or music. Music in particular is really bad; very few kids can effectively learn an instrument without private lessons. Why is that? Because the schools are barely able to teach them in band or strings class at school. They could do it, but not without more resources, money, and additional music classes each week.

Most of the demand for enrichment programs leans towards the higher end of the rigor scale, as public schools have restricted accelerated learning opportunities. This has led even poor parents to gather pocket change for programs like Kumon. However, the real concern lies elsewhere. Over 6 full middle schools have students who are not receiving the minimum required grade-level math education of Algebra 1 in 8th grade. The proposed solution of pushing 1 or 2 of those students who have just finished Algebra 1 in 8th grade into TJ does not address the plight of thousands of innocent students who are lacking basic grade-level math education.

Isn’t Algebra 1 on grade level for 9th? I thought Alg in 7th was two jumps ahead not just one.

Correct.

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS has been releasing less information about the level of math of incoming students over time, not sure how FCAG got the numbers for classes of 2020 and 2021, maybe FOIA?

But yeah, there were less-and-less kids admitted with only Algebra 1 in 8th with that downward trend as far back as 2005 at least (when class of 2009 was applying) along with a significant increase in the proportion of kids who are post-Geometry in 8th. I'm not sure how much of this is due to changes in FCPS policies/instruction that enabled kids to reach higher math sooner vs. a shift in culture of parents enabling their kids moving forward in math faster through outside enrichment or summer studies (not taking a position on whether the latter is a good or bad thing, but seems FCPS is attempting to discourage so much emphasis on such practices by not tying that advancement so closely to TJ admission chances).

TJ Admitted students who took Algebra 1 in 8th
----
Class of 2008: 61%
Class of 2009: 56%
Class of 2010: 43%
Class of 2011: 41%
Class of 2012: 26%
Class of 2013: 17%
Class of 2014: 21%
Class of 2015: 14%
Class of 2016: --%
Class of 2017: --%
Class of 2018: --%
Class of 2019: --%
Class of 2020: 07%
Class of 2021: 04%
Class of 2022: --%
Class of 2023: --%
Class of 2024: --%
Class of 2025: --%
Class of 2026: --%
Class of 2027: --%

TJ Admitted students who took math beyond Geometry in 8th
----
Class of 2008: 06%
Class of 2009: 07%
Class of 2010: 08%
Class of 2011: 06%
Class of 2012: 07%
Class of 2013: 09%
Class of 2014: 10%
Class of 2015: 14%
Class of 2016: --%
Class of 2017: --%
Class of 2018: --%
Class of 2019: --%
Class of 2020: 29%
Class of 2021: 35%
Class of 2022: --%
Class of 2023: --%
Class of 2024: --%
Class of 2025: --%
Class of 2026: --%
Class of 2027: --%

I think that dramatic shift toward very far acceleration in ways mainly achievable outside of school or only in a handful of MSs speaks to why the test was scrapped and new process created. I think it’s good that kids can follow the options available throughout FCPS and still qualify.

Agreed. You shouldn’t have to have outside enrichment to succeed at TJ. I do think a good number of kids at TJ have some type of outside enrichment. My kid is interested in STEM so he participates in STEM extra curriculars, camps, and math enrichment. He also does rec sports and other activities. He has friends in the math enrichment who are there because their parents don’t think that they are learning enough at school, his friends don’t like it but they don’t have a choice.

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

But that's exactly the point, one shouldn't have to enrich if everything worked well and actual math was taught in school. There's no easy fix to that other without major changes to the system, and as a result there is no easy fix for parents with money who perceive that their child does not learn and therefore can't compete with others. This is the exact thing with many other things in this area. Consider travel sports, or music. Music in particular is really bad; very few kids can effectively learn an instrument without private lessons. Why is that? Because the schools are barely able to teach them in band or strings class at school. They could do it, but not without more resources, money, and additional music classes each week.

Would the percentage of kids in Algebra 1 in 7th drop? Sure, maybe from 15% to 10%.

We started enrichment in third grade, which was our COVID DL year. We started because the math that year was awful. DS continued because he liked it. We have asked him every year if he wants to continue and he says yes. He likes the pacing and the challenge. I think the kids who are choosing math enrichment are more likely then not kids who would test into Algebra 1 H in 7th grade without the enrichment. They are choosing to do extra math because they enjoy it.

I know that there are kids who are in DSs class at RSM who are there because their parents make them attend. They are able to do the work but they would not choose to be there. I suspect that those kids would be less likely to test into Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. Some would because they are capable of the work, they are handling the honors class at RSM, but some are struggling in the honors class, DS's class has had to push back two assessments to help kids grasp the material.

I suspect that the Algebra in 8th grade requirement is two-fold.

1) Placate the NAACP by making it easier for smart Black kids who are found at ES a bit later and don't have the money for enrichment have a better chance of attending TJ.
2) Decrease the math acceleration rat race to remove pressure from some kids because everyone has noticed the increased mental health concerns of MS and HS kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

But that's exactly the point, one shouldn't have to enrich if everything worked well and actual math was taught in school. There's no easy fix to that other without major changes to the system, and as a result there is no easy fix for parents with money who perceive that their child does not learn and therefore can't compete with others. This is the exact thing with many other things in this area. Consider travel sports, or music. Music in particular is really bad; very few kids can effectively learn an instrument without private lessons. Why is that? Because the schools are barely able to teach them in band or strings class at school. They could do it, but not without more resources, money, and additional music classes each week.

Most of the demand for enrichment programs leans towards the higher end of the rigor scale, as public schools have restricted accelerated learning opportunities. This has led even poor parents to gather pocket change for programs like Kumon. However, the real concern lies elsewhere. Over 6 full middle schools have students who are not receiving the minimum required grade-level math education of Algebra 1 in 8th grade. The proposed solution of pushing 1 or 2 of those students who have just finished Algebra 1 in 8th grade into TJ does not address the plight of thousands of innocent students who are lacking basic grade-level math education.

Isn’t Algebra 1 on grade level for 9th? I thought Alg in 7th was two jumps ahead not just one.

There is no strict guide line for what is considered grade level at FCPS. Standard diploma only requires Algebra 2 for high school graduation. But students who have no interest in any sort of calculus are being misled they'll do just fine at TJ, just to achieve a predetermined equity chart. So yes, they would be giving up on losing the non-calculus graduation option if they enter TJ, as TJ requires completing calculus to graduate.
https://www.fcps.edu/academics/graduation-requirements-and-course-planning/high-school-course-sequencing/mathematics

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.

Do we have an idea about how many kids with Algebra 1 attended TJ the past two years?

Around 30%

This is a lie. It's 9 Algebra 1 kids, and they all returned to base school.

Cite please?

Hard to believe TJ has admitted 100 kids with just Algebra 1 kids. where did you get that number from?

State SOLs show about 100 tenth graders at TJ taking the Geometry SOL. This is well known.

The 100 is not number of students but 100% of students who took the SOL and passed. If one student took that SOL, and passed it would show as 100%.

Luckily VDOE shows how many took the test. Not sure why you are arguing against this well known fact.