Anonymous
Post 03/02/2024 16:12     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't think it matters. The kids at our public high school that are entering HYP are not national merit semifinalists and we had the largest class of national semifinalists this year in our state.


From our school, people who went to HYP were legacy, athletes, underrepresented minorities, not academic superstars.


+1
Anonymous
Post 03/02/2024 14:11     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:OP, what's the source of your data? Is that NMF destinations in 2022? There are some huge changes over 2021.

Here's a spreadsheet I found tracking data back to 1989.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10mEvJutJsMyQC0V5MfMvwSuLD7bodTDcAWDPSNslvsA/edit#gid=181988488

There are three pieces of information I would *love* to have, if anyone has pointers.

1. Number of commended students by high school, because a) score cut-offs do vary for NMSF and b) NMSF is a small enough percentage that it gets kind of streaky.

2. NMSF admits to colleges, which would bypass the NMF gamesmenship.

3. All the above data for the ACT and the CLT both of whose providers are, as far as I can tell, more close-mouthed than the SAT. Or maybe I just don't know them well enough.


There are some really interesting trends in here. If the data is accurate. Some of the patterns are so strange, I wonder if the data has any errors. Can anyone look at their school and comment on changes in pattern over time? To me, the Pitt and Penn State data look believable. The UMD CP line shows an interesting increase in 2021. I wonder if that measures any real phenomenon at the school. And further wonder what went on in 2022 and 2023.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2024 22:01     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't think it matters. The kids at our public high school that are entering HYP are not national merit semifinalists and we had the largest class of national semifinalists this year in our state.


From our school, people who went to HYP were legacy, athletes, underrepresented minorities, not academic superstars.


Our DCs attended a top private in NYC - the folks going to the HYPSM were nearly all academic superstars. Of these, some were legacy, some were connected to luminaries. Only two, who were legacy of board of trustees' members across generations, were just fine. Once beyond those five schools, then most were still academic superstars, but there were some who got in because of connections, potential for 7-8 digit contributions, or schools simply wanting the flex of "X's kid goes here" or "X's and Y's kid goes here." (And to be fair, in that last category, some were stellar students.)
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2024 21:49     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:First is the raw number; then adjusted for percentage of enrolled freshmen to account for undergraduate size. Some schools like Alabama and ASU offer full scholarships to winners so you will see a large number at these institutions.


1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]


UMD is pretty awesome. They sponsor 1K per year (for 4 years) as NMS scholarship for their accepted NMS Finalists. Even NMSC does not give this much $.

However, UT Dallas is another level of money and privileges for any kid who is an NMS Finalist. They are given full ride (room, board, tuition), stipend, internships and research jobs, and money for a semester abroad. Also, their admissions deadline is May.

You really think 1k is generous? UMD doesn’t offer much IMO. My NMF went out of state because UMD didn’t offer much merit.



Well, for my DC - it works out to around 4K of National Merit scholarship over 4 years sponsored by UMD. Otherwise the scholarship given by NMSC is a one time scholarship of $2,500.

But, then UMD also gave my DC full tuition merit scholarship. Of course, some colleges like UT Dallas makes college completely free for NMF.

Still my kid getting a double major for the cost of room and board is pretty good.



Well, that's a lot of extra facts (full tuition scholarship). Just 1K per year isn't much for such a strong student.


No, but if your student needs more then they should look @ schools with more generous aid.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2024 21:12     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
OP, what's the source of your data? Is that NMF destinations in 2022? There are some huge changes over 2021.

Here's a spreadsheet I found tracking data back to 1989.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10mEvJutJsMyQC0V5MfMvwSuLD7bodTDcAWDPSNslvsA/edit#gid=181988488

There are three pieces of information I would *love* to have, if anyone has pointers.

1. Number of commended students by high school, because a) score cut-offs do vary for NMSF and b) NMSF is a small enough percentage that it gets kind of streaky.

2. NMSF admits to colleges, which would bypass the NMF gamesmenship.

3. All the above data for the ACT and the CLT both of whose providers are, as far as I can tell, more close-mouthed than the SAT. Or maybe I just don't know them well enough.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2024 20:48     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't think it matters. The kids at our public high school that are entering HYP are not national merit semifinalists and we had the largest class of national semifinalists this year in our state.


Most of the kids that go to ivys from our public are recruited athletes that are very bright. Normal bright kids are going to Michigan, Northwestern, CMU,


It looks from the data in the OP that at least the NM winners are going to Ivies, and other top schools.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2024 20:38     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:I don't think it matters. The kids at our public high school that are entering HYP are not national merit semifinalists and we had the largest class of national semifinalists this year in our state.


Most of the kids that go to ivys from our public are recruited athletes that are very bright. Normal bright kids are going to Michigan, Northwestern, CMU,
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2024 17:28     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How can NYU be so low? It has like a bajillion students.


Why would you think it would get more than 44? It seems to be ballpark for where I would expect given it does not sponsor.


Schools like Emory, NEU, Georgia Tech, Tufts have considerably more. It just seems that given how large the enrollment is it would have more.


NYU had 44 and did not sponsor any. Emory had 67 but it sponsored 54 of them. Tufts had 63 but it sponsored 54. NEU had 97 but it sponsored 78. Sponsored = gave additional money.

Georgia Tech is the outlier. It had 90 and did not sponsor any.



Doesn't Georgia give out the HOPE scholarship? That's supposed to cover most of GTech's tuition. If the National Merit student got that it may just be sort of an accounting issue. Either way, kid doesn't pay much.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2024 10:48     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:

It’s worth noting a lot of these schools offer additional scholarships for National Merit Scholars once they enroll. So among schools that don’t offer the bump, the top 10 would be:

1. MIT
2. Harvard
3. Yale
4. Princeton
5. Stanford
6. Penn
7. Duke
8. Columbia
9. Dartmouth
10. Rice



This^.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2024 10:42     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:I don't think it matters. The kids at our public high school that are entering HYP are not national merit semifinalists and we had the largest class of national semifinalists this year in our state.


From our school, people who went to HYP were legacy, athletes, underrepresented minorities, not academic superstars.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2024 10:31     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How can NYU be so low? It has like a bajillion students.


Why would you think it would get more than 44? It seems to be ballpark for where I would expect given it does not sponsor.


Schools like Emory, NEU, Georgia Tech, Tufts have considerably more. It just seems that given how large the enrollment is it would have more.


NYU had 44 and did not sponsor any. Emory had 67 but it sponsored 54 of them. Tufts had 63 but it sponsored 54. NEU had 97 but it sponsored 78. Sponsored = gave additional money.

Georgia Tech is the outlier. It had 90 and did not sponsor any.



What is the downside of sponsoring them? It seems like a win-win, the school gets a dynamite student, and the student saves some money.


Some schools outright buy these NMF because otherwise they wouldn't put foot in there and go to colleges where studentbody is of tgeir own caliber.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2024 10:28     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Weird Vandy is so high when they accept 40%+ students test optional!



Kind of interesting.

But Vanderbilt has been a high stats school for a while.

Still.

Why bother being test optional when you're killing it?


Being test optional adds some opacity to the process and they can get away with unfair selection.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2024 10:23     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
I don't think it matters. The kids at our public high school that are entering HYP are not national merit semifinalists and we had the largest class of national semifinalists this year in our state.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2024 09:53     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:First is the raw number; then adjusted for percentage of enrolled freshmen to account for undergraduate size. Some schools like Alabama and ASU offer full scholarships to winners so you will see a large number at these institutions.


1. Alabama 323 [8,279 Freshmen, 3.9%]
2. Florida 297 [6,612 Freshmen 4.4%]
3. USC 262 [3,402 Freshmen, 7.7%]
4. Purdue 260 [9,353 Freshmen, 2.7%]
5. UT Dallas 232 [4,218 Freshmen, 5.5%]
6. Texas A&M 219 [12,419 Freshmen, 1.7%]
7. Vanderbilt 185 [1,624 Freshmen, 11.3%]
8. Harvard 160 [1,644 Freshmen, 9.7%]
9. MIT 154 [1,136 Freshmen, 13.5%]
10. Penn 147 [2,415 Freshmen, 6%]
11. UMD 144 [5,821 Freshmen, 2.5%]
12. Stanford 129 [1,733 Freshmen, 7.4%]
13. Yale 127 [1,554 Freshmen, 8%]
14. Princeton 116 [1,497 Freshmen, 7.7%]
15. Northeastern 97 [2,519 Freshmen, 3.9%]
16. Duke 94 [1,744 Freshmen, 5.3%]
17. UC Berkeley 93 [6,707 Freshmen, 1.4%]
18. Georgia Tech 90 [3,646 Freshmen, 2.5%]
19. UCF 85 [7,512 Freshmen, 1.1%]
20. UT Austin 85 [9,109 Freshmen, .9%]
21. Oklahoma 84
22. Minnesota 79
23. BU 77 [3,635 Freshmen, 2.1%]
24. UCLA 77 [6,461 Freshmen, 1.2%]
25. USF 77 [6,773 Freshmen, 1.1%]
26. Michigan 76 [7,050 Freshmen, 1%]
27. Columbia 75 [1,522 Freshmen, 4.9%]
28. Northwestern 75 [2,038 Freshmen, 3.7%]
29. Brown 69 [1,717 Freshmen, 4%]
30. Emory 67 [1,424 Freshmen, 4.7%]
31. Indiana 67 [9,736 Freshmen, .7%]
32. Arizona 65 [9,069 Freshmen, .7%]
33. Tufts 63 [1,694 Freshmen, 3.7%]
34. ASU 62 [10,022 Freshmen, .6%]
35. Georgia 60 [6,250 Freshmen, 1%]
36. BYU 59 [5,567 Freshmen, 1%]
37. Georgetown 56 [1,603 Freshmen, 3.5%]
38. Case Western 55 [1,553 Freshmen, 3.5%]
39. Cornell 54 [3,491 Freshmen, 1.5%]
40. Rice 51 [1,201 Freshmen, 4.3%]
41. Dartmouth 49 [1,124 Freshmen, 4.4%]
42. Michigan State 49 [9,829 Freshmen .5%]
43. Johns Hopkins 48 [1,406 Freshmen 3.4%]
44. UChicago 48 [2,053 Freshmen, 2.3%]
45. Carnegie Mellon 47 [1,716 Freshmen, 2.7%]
46. Clemson 45 [4,588 Freshmen, .99%]
47. Missouri 45 [4,983 Freshmen, .9%]
48. NYU 44 [6,184 Freshmen, .7%]
49. Miss State 43 [3,367 Freshmen, 1.2%]
50. Rutgers 43 [7,780 Freshmen, .5%]
51. UNC 40 [4,689 Freshmen, .8%]
52. Illinois 39 [8,297 Freshmen, .5%]
53. Oklahoma State 36 [4,643 Freshmen, .7%]
54. Iowa State 35
55. UVA 35 [4,020 Freshmen, .9%]


UMD is pretty awesome. They sponsor 1K per year (for 4 years) as NMS scholarship for their accepted NMS Finalists. Even NMSC does not give this much $.

However, UT Dallas is another level of money and privileges for any kid who is an NMS Finalist. They are given full ride (room, board, tuition), stipend, internships and research jobs, and money for a semester abroad. Also, their admissions deadline is May.

You really think 1k is generous? UMD doesn’t offer much IMO. My NMF went out of state because UMD didn’t offer much merit.



Well, for my DC - it works out to around 4K of National Merit scholarship over 4 years sponsored by UMD. Otherwise the scholarship given by NMSC is a one time scholarship of $2,500.

But, then UMD also gave my DC full tuition merit scholarship. Of course, some colleges like UT Dallas makes college completely free for NMF.

Still my kid getting a double major for the cost of room and board is pretty good.



Well, that's a lot of extra facts (full tuition scholarship). Just 1K per year isn't much for such a strong student.
Anonymous
Post 02/23/2024 09:24     Subject: Colleges enrolling the most National Merit Scholarship winners
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Winners or finalists here?


Winners chosen from the finalists.


Harvard, MIT, Yale, Rice, Amherst, Princeton and similar top schools type doesn't offer any merit scholarships.


This is important to note, and counters what the other PP stated, about who gets chosen.


My kid was a NMF and toured several schools with free tuition and decided to attend another school (Pre-Covid), we are a full pay family and had saved for college. These schools (Alabama and ASU) value high performance and academics and they were "recruited". This sub-set of students have amazing opportunities, and they are treated special.