Anonymous wrote:Niece is a junior at a top-20 SLAC on a pre-med track. She had a rough start and her GPA is 3.5 overall, biology major. Her father is a Harvard educated doctor and they always talk of her following in his footsteps. I don’t think her GPA is competitive and she may do better trying for a PA program. Anyone in similar situation? Is 3.5 too low for respectable MD programs?

Let me guess. OP, you did not go to a school nearly as highly ranked as Harvard, and while you like and care for your niece, also a little bit of smug satisfaction, thinking that you, unlike her father or her counselors, will be the one to come up with the bright idea of how she can actually Have a better career. I think that because there is no reason to mention that her father went to Harvard, she has not asked for your assistance and seems to have a wide platform for advice and guidance through her family and School, and you seem to be entering the conversation with a relatively negative view of her options of what she won’t be able to accomplish and how you have this great idea that maybe she can settle. I wouldn’t think this way if she had been seeking your advice or looking for areas outside of the doctor track, which tons of people do. But if she’s smart enough to be doing well at college, and presumably as a decent brain to understand the world around her in the most basic form, she really doesn’t need her aunt telling her that it would be easier for her to become a PA.

ZOMBIE THREAD

Anonymous wrote:I suggest going into dentistry - can work for yourself and do well, good work life balance, especially if a parent.

That’s not even close to being a medical doctor.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a physician and if my daughter were in this position I’d advise her to go to PA school (provided she were on board, of course.)

I agree. I am comfortable with PAs as much as doctors. A 3.5 GPA at a liberal arts school doesn’t sound competitive at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve always felt that NPs have better training than PAs, bc NPs have to earn their RN first - it’s the prerequisite for NP school I believe. But correct me if wrong…

I work with NPs from very top programs. All NPs get their RN degree as part of their NP training but never work or have any bedside experience as an RN. They aren’t even trained to draw bloods or put in an IV. They have no knowledge in pathophysiology and their education consists mainly of memorization of basic protocols. In some NP programs, the vast majority of their education is online with little to no clinical experience and they definitely don’t do a residency.

Can NPs with little clinical experience get a job after completing their NP program?

I suggest going into dentistry - can work for yourself and do well, good work life balance, especially if a parent.

I have an extended family member that just became a PA after doing a new 1 year school in California.

Anonymous wrote:PA school all the way! Less work, same reward. PA licensing has been opening up over the past 20 years and it's a solid investment without dedicating as many years to residency and fellowship.

From a family with an endocrinologist, an ophthalmologist, a ARNP and a paramedic.... Go to PA school.

We've seen and experienced all facets of this conversation- debt, years in training, relocation etc....

No I will not see a PA. Have seen them. Never again. Nor an OD

If it’s my life on the line, I would go with the most experienced

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Would her college try to sway her to not apply to med school, to help their med school admit success rate? Maybe counsel out of applying to med school?

What? No

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is interesting and I'm not sure why the negative opinions on NP/PAs here. With some very limited exceptions, BY FAR I have had more positive interactions, diagnoses, attention, care, given to me by PAs and NPs than MDs. BY FAR. And this in the DMV area with well respected practices and hospitals.

My experience is these folks spend more time with you as a patient/person. MDs are in and out quickly, dismiss your complaints, and aim for low hanging fruit in terms of diagnoses nearly 100% of the time.

I would much prefer to have the input of a NP/PA in addition/as a second view to the MD every single time.

Also some of the smartest people I know are NPs and PAs.

Same. I work in healthcare and have mad respect for NPs and PAs. They fill a much needed void when it comes to primary care. Even better, they fill other voids in subspecialty areas like surgery, oncology, diabetes, geriatric care, peds and more. When the medical community starts encouraging more PCP specialization, then you can request fewer NPs and PAs.

The solution is to make it easier for MDs to have more time to do what NP and PAs can do in terms of listening to patients. The solution isn’t to have more poorly trained practitioners.

Baahahah. You're funny and so naive

PA school all the way! Less work, same reward. PA licensing has been opening up over the past 20 years and it's a solid investment without dedicating as many years to residency and fellowship.

From a family with an endocrinologist, an ophthalmologist, a ARNP and a paramedic.... Go to PA school.

We've seen and experienced all facets of this conversation- debt, years in training, relocation etc....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is interesting and I'm not sure why the negative opinions on NP/PAs here. With some very limited exceptions, BY FAR I have had more positive interactions, diagnoses, attention, care, given to me by PAs and NPs than MDs. BY FAR. And this in the DMV area with well respected practices and hospitals.

My experience is these folks spend more time with you as a patient/person. MDs are in and out quickly, dismiss your complaints, and aim for low hanging fruit in terms of diagnoses nearly 100% of the time.

I would much prefer to have the input of a NP/PA in addition/as a second view to the MD every single time.

Also some of the smartest people I know are NPs and PAs.

Same. I work in healthcare and have mad respect for NPs and PAs. They fill a much needed void when it comes to primary care. Even better, they fill other voids in subspecialty areas like surgery, oncology, diabetes, geriatric care, peds and more. When the medical community starts encouraging more PCP specialization, then you can request fewer NPs and PAs.

The solution is to make it easier for MDs to have more time to do what NP and PAs can do in terms of listening to patients. The solution isn’t to have more poorly trained practitioners.

Anonymous wrote:This is interesting and I'm not sure why the negative opinions on NP/PAs here. With some very limited exceptions, BY FAR I have had more positive interactions, diagnoses, attention, care, given to me by PAs and NPs than MDs. BY FAR. And this in the DMV area with well respected practices and hospitals.

My experience is these folks spend more time with you as a patient/person. MDs are in and out quickly, dismiss your complaints, and aim for low hanging fruit in terms of diagnoses nearly 100% of the time.

I would much prefer to have the input of a NP/PA in addition/as a second view to the MD every single time.

Also some of the smartest people I know are NPs and PAs.

I usually get an NP when I do my annual checkup, and they are just like the MDs from the standpoint of "in and out quickly, dismiss your complaints, and aim for low hanging fruit in terms of diagnoses nearly 100% of the time." They don't spend more time with me than do the MDs. Which is fine because I don't have any real problems and I just want to get out of there quick as I can.

When I have a serious problem - emergency room for myself or my kids - I absolutely want an MD not an NP/PA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve always felt that NPs have better training than PAs, bc NPs have to earn their RN first - it’s the prerequisite for NP school I believe. But correct me if wrong…

I work with NPs from very top programs. All NPs get their RN degree as part of their NP training but never work or have any bedside experience as an RN. They aren’t even trained to draw bloods or put in an IV. They have no knowledge in pathophysiology and their education consists mainly of memorization of basic protocols. In some NP programs, the vast majority of their education is online with little to no clinical experience and they definitely don’t do a residency.

What are you talking about? The vast majority of NPs worked as RNs for years before entering NP school, majority having a BSN. Nursing school alone gives clinical experience for 3 out of the 4 years. In fact, most NP programs require you to be at least an RN and with experience. There are a few programs where you can go from an unrelated bachelors degree onto a MSN-NP, with zero prior clinical experience, but that is not the typical pathway.

Not the case for program at Columbia University, not to mention the online programs

+1

The whole idea with NP programs was to increase training and responsibility for highly experienced nurses. So in the beginning, those accepted to NP programs had worked in patient care for years. This is just not the case anymore at all. Online NP programs are cash cows, and cash cow programs accept people who can write the check. This is terrible for patient care.

The Clintons pushed the whole NP/PA thing through.

If you want to have "affordable health care for all" then you have to make some compromises on quality. Oh well!