Anonymous
12/18/2023 15:26
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Please tell me you're not that dumb. His "muslim ban" shows he is willing to do anything to keep certain immigrants out of this country, by any means.
I’m sure Trump has seen the struggle to integrate Muslims in Europe and is reluctant to bring that here. Muslim culture is very different and generally not compatible with Western society. As Europe has seen, Muslim immigrants express less attachment to their host country and exhibit greater attachment to their country of origin compared to Christian immigrants. These patterns do not improve in subsequent generations.
This is laughable. I have scores of Muslim friends in the US. They are doing just fine, thank you.
Same. My Muslim friends are doing just fine here, thank you very much. Maybe some Muslims have a problem integrating into European society, but they don’t here.
Right. My Muslim neighbor served in the US Army and then became a dentist. He does not wish me any harm, just wishes I would floss more regularly.
Come to think of it, my kids were both born with the help of my Muslim OB GYN. Again, she is Muslim, wonderful, and is not out to get me nor to return to Pakistan. She’s American, with a slight accent. I’m lucky she was my doctor.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 15:24
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Just curious, why do all of you support open US borders with no restrictions? What do you hope it will accomplish? What would your ideal United States look like in 10-20 years, in terms of society and demographics?
No one supports that, including this president and administration, so your premise is flawed.
The fact is, there is more money being spent at the border, more interdictions, more apprehensions, more deportations. So to suggest that there is somehow support for open boarders is pure right wing fantasy.
As to the shift if culture in the coming decades, it will be what naturally evolves. I don't see people complaining now about the rise of Pizza Hut, Taco Bell or other "cultural" food establishments as they did when they were first created and came into the national consciousness. Our country is a melting pot, by design and frankly, we are better for it. Imagine being stuck with eggs, chicken, salt and ham as a base cuisine as it was 150 years ago. Imagine having life with the various music and dance inputs over the past 100 years - we would all still be doing The Charleston or something lame like that. Imagine not having the scientific advancements as a result of immigrants having the freedom to discover in the US over the past 100 years.
What a sad world that would be. Just because you and your family are here now, doesn't mean things will fall of a cliff as you are predicting. Do you know how I know? Because the rhetoric you are expressing has been repeated time and time again, whether it was "the Jews," the eastern Eurpoeans "the Pols" "the Czecks" the south Americans, the Mexicans, the irish, the Italians, the Hmongs, you name it, they have been castigated, mostly by white protestants, but generally by anyone who is already here. And yet, generally speaking, our country is better, more diverse and more culturally enriching than any other on the planet.
That should be celebrated, not condemned.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 15:22
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Just curious, why do all of you support open US borders with no restrictions? What do you hope it will accomplish? What would your ideal United States look like in 10-20 years, in terms of society and demographics?
None of us wants that. If you ever communicated in person and honestly with us, or even just listened here, you’d know that.
But Trump really is talking like a Nazi and you still support him.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 15:08
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Please tell me you're not that dumb. His "muslim ban" shows he is willing to do anything to keep certain immigrants out of this country, by any means.
I’m sure Trump has seen the struggle to integrate Muslims in Europe and is reluctant to bring that here. Muslim culture is very different and generally not compatible with Western society. As Europe has seen, Muslim immigrants express less attachment to their host country and exhibit greater attachment to their country of origin compared to Christian immigrants. These patterns do not improve in subsequent generations.
This is laughable. I have scores of Muslim friends in the US. They are doing just fine, thank you.
Same. My Muslim friends are doing just fine here, thank you very much. Maybe some Muslims have a problem integrating into European society, but they don’t here.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:55
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Please tell me you're not that dumb. His "muslim ban" shows he is willing to do anything to keep certain immigrants out of this country, by any means.
I’m sure Trump has seen the struggle to integrate Muslims in Europe and is reluctant to bring that here. Muslim culture is very different and generally not compatible with Western society. As Europe has seen, Muslim immigrants express less attachment to their host country and exhibit greater attachment to their country of origin compared to Christian immigrants. These patterns do not improve in subsequent generations.
This is laughable. I have scores of Muslim friends in the US. They are doing just fine, thank you.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:54
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Nope, he deported legal immigrants during his term in office.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:53
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Putting aside anything Trump said or didn't say about Orban, do any on the right care to comment on the fact that 1) he is bringing up Orban (a dictator) up at all and 2) his actual comment about migrants "poisoning the blood of our country"?
Well, let’s watch a video where Trump and Orban meet, and see what they say in their own words and where they agree:
https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-trump-meets-hungary-highly-respected-viktor-orban/9CE392D6-59DA-4ED1-A745-65423288F3AB
It sounds to me like they agree on keeping their countries safe, fighting terrorism, stopping illegal immigration, and protecting Christian communities.
I personally support all of these things. If you don’t, then fine, we disagree politically.
Just because Trump and Orban meet, it doesn’t mean they agree on everything or that Trump wants to be exactly like Orban. The left has a tendency to catastrophize when it comes to Trump.
(I.e. Protecting Christian communities does not mean Trump wants Christianity to become the state religion of the US. Don’t read into his words what’s not there.)
Then why not protect all communities? What is so special about Christian communities?
I believe that Trump wants all American citizens to be protected.
I have never heard him say this, but I suspect he also wants the US to remain a culturally Christian nation. Many Americans, even if they are not religious themselves, want the US to remain culturally Christian. They don’t want to live in a Muslim society or Hindu society or whatever. Rapid immigration irreversibly changes the culture.
I don't know anyone who believes the bolded. It is nonsense and it is a tyranny of the minority.
We don't want Sharia law either.
But if what Texas did to that poor woman is any indication, no thanks to that.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:46
Subject: Re:Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not remotely comparable. Trump is talking about "blood" as a synonym of societal culture and strength. Hitler is talking about "race" in a broad enough sense to include any form of heritage. By Hitler standards almost the entire Trump family is inferior mixed blood, including Trump's wife, four of his five children and all of his grandchildren. His entire family is part Slavic or part Jewish and in Hitler's mind are inferior by blood.
Given in context of his other behavior, misrepresentations and alliances with autocrats and fascist values - it is a very credible analogy..
December 17, 2023
HEATHER COX RICHARDSON (US historian)
It seems that former president Donald Trump is aligning his supporters with a global far-right movement to destroy democracy.
On Saturday, in Durham, New Hampshire, Trump echoed Nazi leader Adolf Hitler’s attacks on immigrants, saying they are “poisoning the blood of our country”—although two of his three wives were immigrants—and quoted Russian president Vladimir Putin’s attacks on American democracy. Trump went on to praise North Korean autocratic leader Kim Jong Un and align himself with Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, the darling of the American right wing, who has destroyed Hungary’s democracy and replaced it with a dictatorship.
Trump called Orbán “the man who can save the Western world.”
Dr. Sarah Riccardi-Swartz, a professor of religion and anthropology at Northeastern University, explained in The Conversation what Trump is talking about. Autocrats like Orbán and Putin—and budding autocrats like Trump—are building a global movement by fighting back against the expansion of rights to women, minorities, and LGBTQ+ people.
Russian leaders have been cracking down on LGBTQ+ rights for a decade with the help of the Russian Orthodox Church, claiming that they are protecting “traditional values.” This vision of heteronormativity rewrites the real history of human sexuality, but it is powerful in this moment. Orbán insists that immigrants ruin the purity of a country, and has undermined women’s rights.
Riccardi-Swartz explains that this rhetoric appeals to those in far-right movements around the world. In the United States, “family values” became tied to patriotism after World War II, when Chinese and Soviet communists appeared to be erasing traditional gender roles. Those people defined as anti-family—LGBTQ+ people and women who challenged patriarchy—seemed to be undermining society. Now, as dictators like Putin and Orbán promise to take away LGBTQ+ rights, hurt immigrants, and return power to white men, they seem to many to be protecting traditional society.
In the United States, that undercurrent has created a movement of people who are willing to overthrow democracy if it means reinforcing their traditional vision. Christian nationalists believe that the secular values of democracy are destroying Christianity and traditional values. They want to get rid of LGBTQ+ rights, feminism, immigration, and the public schools they believe teach such values. And if that means handing power to a dictator who promises to restore their vision of a traditional society, they’re in.
It is an astonishing rejection of everything the United States has always stood for.
The White House today responded to Trump’s speech. White House deputy press secretary Andrew Bates said: “Echoing the grotesque rhetoric of fascists and violent white supremacists and threatening to oppress those who disagree with the government are dangerous attacks on the dignity and rights of all Americans, on our democracy, and on public safety…. It’s the opposite of everything we stand for as Americans.”
—
Notes:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2023/12/16/trump-authoritarians-putin-orban-poisoning-blood/
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/russia-ramps-ups-attacks-on-lgbt-groups-for-an-international-far-right-audience
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/what-mike-johnsons-stint-representing-a-creationist-museum-in-court-reveals-about-his-politics
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/16/biden-trump-remarks-immigration-00132161
https://theconversation.com/as-russia-ramps-up-traditional-values-rhetoric-especially-against-lgbtq-groups-its-won-putin-far-right-fans-abroad-219102
You can stop posting this article from Heather Cox Richardson.
You seem to be the only person who reads her drivel.
She's a historian and a damn good one, who shows her sources. That's not "drivel" sweetie, and that you think it is tells me why you are so willing to accept Trump's bigoted rhetoric so easily.
+1 And she cites everything. No drama. America would be better off if more people read such quality all the time.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:41
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Please tell me you're not that dumb. His "muslim ban" shows he is willing to do anything to keep certain immigrants out of this country, by any means.
I’m sure Trump has seen the struggle to integrate Muslims in Europe and is reluctant to bring that here. Muslim culture is very different and generally not compatible with Western society. As Europe has seen, Muslim immigrants express less attachment to their host country and exhibit greater attachment to their country of origin compared to Christian immigrants. These patterns do not improve in subsequent generations.
We've heard this nonsense for hundreds of years. First it was the Irish, then the Italians, then the Chinese, etc etc etc. It's nothing but a bunch of xenophobic/racist BS.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:39
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
That's not what toxic language like "poisoning the blood of our country" says. So whatever you believe does not comport with what he is saying.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:22
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Please tell me you're not that dumb. His "muslim ban" shows he is willing to do anything to keep certain immigrants out of this country, by any means.
I’m sure Trump has seen the struggle to integrate Muslims in Europe and is reluctant to bring that here. Muslim culture is very different and generally not compatible with Western society. As Europe has seen, Muslim immigrants express less attachment to their host country and exhibit greater attachment to their country of origin compared to Christian immigrants. These patterns do not improve in subsequent generations.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:11
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Eight years of hate, vitriol, and blatant racism and there are still people out there who make apologies and grasp at straws. You have the observational powers of a rock if you can't see what has been in plain sight since day 1.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:02
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.
Please tell me you're not that dumb. His "muslim ban" shows he is willing to do anything to keep certain immigrants out of this country, by any means.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:01
Subject: Re:Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not remotely comparable. Trump is talking about "blood" as a synonym of societal culture and strength. Hitler is talking about "race" in a broad enough sense to include any form of heritage. By Hitler standards almost the entire Trump family is inferior mixed blood, including Trump's wife, four of his five children and all of his grandchildren. His entire family is part Slavic or part Jewish and in Hitler's mind are inferior by blood.
Given in context of his other behavior, misrepresentations and alliances with autocrats and fascist values - it is a very credible analogy..
December 17, 2023
HEATHER COX RICHARDSON (US historian)
It seems that former president Donald Trump is aligning his supporters with a global far-right movement to destroy democracy.
On Saturday, in Durham, New Hampshire, Trump echoed Nazi leader Adolf Hitler’s attacks on immigrants, saying they are “poisoning the blood of our country”—although two of his three wives were immigrants—and quoted Russian president Vladimir Putin’s attacks on American democracy. Trump went on to praise North Korean autocratic leader Kim Jong Un and align himself with Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orbán, the darling of the American right wing, who has destroyed Hungary’s democracy and replaced it with a dictatorship.
Trump called Orbán “the man who can save the Western world.”
Dr. Sarah Riccardi-Swartz, a professor of religion and anthropology at Northeastern University, explained in The Conversation what Trump is talking about. Autocrats like Orbán and Putin—and budding autocrats like Trump—are building a global movement by fighting back against the expansion of rights to women, minorities, and LGBTQ+ people.
Russian leaders have been cracking down on LGBTQ+ rights for a decade with the help of the Russian Orthodox Church, claiming that they are protecting “traditional values.” This vision of heteronormativity rewrites the real history of human sexuality, but it is powerful in this moment. Orbán insists that immigrants ruin the purity of a country, and has undermined women’s rights.
Riccardi-Swartz explains that this rhetoric appeals to those in far-right movements around the world. In the United States, “family values” became tied to patriotism after World War II, when Chinese and Soviet communists appeared to be erasing traditional gender roles. Those people defined as anti-family—LGBTQ+ people and women who challenged patriarchy—seemed to be undermining society. Now, as dictators like Putin and Orbán promise to take away LGBTQ+ rights, hurt immigrants, and return power to white men, they seem to many to be protecting traditional society.
In the United States, that undercurrent has created a movement of people who are willing to overthrow democracy if it means reinforcing their traditional vision. Christian nationalists believe that the secular values of democracy are destroying Christianity and traditional values. They want to get rid of LGBTQ+ rights, feminism, immigration, and the public schools they believe teach such values. And if that means handing power to a dictator who promises to restore their vision of a traditional society, they’re in.
It is an astonishing rejection of everything the United States has always stood for.
The White House today responded to Trump’s speech. White House deputy press secretary Andrew Bates said: “Echoing the grotesque rhetoric of fascists and violent white supremacists and threatening to oppress those who disagree with the government are dangerous attacks on the dignity and rights of all Americans, on our democracy, and on public safety…. It’s the opposite of everything we stand for as Americans.”
—
Notes:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2023/12/16/trump-authoritarians-putin-orban-poisoning-blood/
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/russia-ramps-ups-attacks-on-lgbt-groups-for-an-international-far-right-audience
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/what-mike-johnsons-stint-representing-a-creationist-museum-in-court-reveals-about-his-politics
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/16/biden-trump-remarks-immigration-00132161
https://theconversation.com/as-russia-ramps-up-traditional-values-rhetoric-especially-against-lgbtq-groups-its-won-putin-far-right-fans-abroad-219102
You can stop posting this article from Heather Cox Richardson.
You seem to be the only person who reads her drivel.
She's a historian and a damn good one, who shows her sources. That's not "drivel" sweetie, and that you think it is tells me why you are so willing to accept Trump's bigoted rhetoric so easily.
Anonymous
12/18/2023 14:00
Subject: Trump warns that immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country
Anonymous wrote:Trump is so deranged and toxic. So much hate for immigrants - yet only one of his own parents was born in the US; and none of his grandparents were.
It makes you wonder if it's really about immigrants at all. They can't be so bad if his own family consists of immigrants. But then again, all of his focus is on the southern border.
European immigrants clearly aren't a problem then. Just brown ones.
I don’t think he hates immigrants. He just wants them to come here legally and in a controlled fashion.