Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Therapy for coping skills or detaching may help too.

Therapy should also delve into why OP has such old-school, stereotyped ideas of what is "masculine." She needs to think about why she married him in the first place, what was attractive about him to her then, and why her attitude has changed and/or why he's changed, if he really has. If she's turned off, she's turned off, and it's OK to admit and own that, but unless she wants to divorce over this, they could actually try to work on the marriage, rather than her just resenting him. He might be shocked to hear what she is thinking about him, and might want to talk about it....IF she will actually communicate with him, rather than stewing in her disdain.

Don’t bother with that.

Something the H is doing or failing to do is destroying the attraction and relationship. What is it, why is it happening, does she want to make it a deal breaker or not. Up to her.

Personally I cannot stand how my H never has an opinion in anything nor makes a decision. He mens and haws and parrots back a rephrase of the very question I asked or a rehash of the options, as if I’m stupid and don’t know he’s avoiding making a decision. Eg weekend trip or kids swim meet. This private school or that one. Braces or Invisilign.

His indecision or inability to process two things is not attractive.

Now I have to make most family decisions myself, and without talking it over with an actual partner. He doesn’t even read his emails on a topic before “discussing”, so he’s rarely prepared at a basic level. And had nothing to add.

Biggest negative is this is lonely and I have a partner I can’t count on. He avoids discussions, thinking and decisions. He wants no responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want a real man, but society today frowns on real men, OP. Welcome to the great compromise. This is what women wanted.

Portions of society frown on it.

Enroll your son in tackle football. And then wrestling in the winter. And then lax or baseball in the spring.

Take him somewhere he can learn to fish or hunt.

Real, true masculine men exist. Not the fake masculinity. But the real one. Where men understand their responsibility to the next generation. Where they teach values and self-sufficiency. Where your son learn mental resiliency, toughness, and compassion.

Let your boy be the boy he is, assuming that you're asking bc he's different than his father

My answer would be: MOVE OUT OF THE BIZARRE WASH DC BUBBLE

Real men galore in the other areas and states. They seek work/life balance, are in shape, run businesses, coach kids sports teams, attend professional and kids sports games, BBQ meat and make pies, go to church & brunch every Sunday, spend time with extended family, review their kids’ grades work, maintain the yard and vehicles.

And a little more golf and tailgating before college games.

But otherwise it’s all good.

Lots of double dates too now that the kids are older and can stay home. Going to a speakeasy soon with some neighbors.

Idk if I equate ‘real men’ with ‘church’

Sorry you have no one of any faith in your life or neighborhood.

Lots of well-rounded “real men” and their families involved and going to synagogues, Hindu temples, Baptist churches, Catholic Churches, Presbyterian churches, episcopal churches, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, Unitarian churches, etc.

I couldn't respect a grown man who believes in fairy tales.

Believing something got created out of nothing and believing something as complex as a human body evolved out of nothing is the dumbest fairytale ever

There's a dumber one: believing that something even more complex than humans, like "God," got created out of nothing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love my husband but he is not like...a man. He does not have a big career or even works outside of the home! He runs a small business and hardly leaves the house. He cooks dinner most nights and does not show any interest in physical fitness or sports. He does not have male friends and he is a recluse.

We have a 3 year old that I know will seek out his father in terms of how to be a man, when the time comes. Is my situation as dire as being a single mom in terms of having role models for our son?

I’m in the same boat. I married DH because he was safe and very different from my abusive father. I’ve since learned that there is much more to a good man than just not hitting women. Under his passivity lies a lot of insecurity, self-pity, and laziness. I’m lonely, unsatisfied, and overworked because rising to all the occasions of life and parenting falls to me. He crumbles with panic attacks and hostility under the smallest stress.

Also, don't dismiss the possibility that your issues with your father has re-wired your brain as to how you perceive love.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want a real man, but society today frowns on real men, OP. Welcome to the great compromise. This is what women wanted.

Portions of society frown on it.

Enroll your son in tackle football. And then wrestling in the winter. And then lax or baseball in the spring.

Take him somewhere he can learn to fish or hunt.

Real, true masculine men exist. Not the fake masculinity. But the real one. Where men understand their responsibility to the next generation. Where they teach values and self-sufficiency. Where your son learn mental resiliency, toughness, and compassion.

Let your boy be the boy he is, assuming that you're asking bc he's different than his father

My answer would be: MOVE OUT OF THE BIZARRE WASH DC BUBBLE

Real men galore in the other areas and states. They seek work/life balance, are in shape, run businesses, coach kids sports teams, attend professional and kids sports games, BBQ meat and make pies, go to church & brunch every Sunday, spend time with extended family, review their kids’ grades work, maintain the yard and vehicles.

And a little more golf and tailgating before college games.

But otherwise it’s all good.

Lots of double dates too now that the kids are older and can stay home. Going to a speakeasy soon with some neighbors.

Idk if I equate ‘real men’ with ‘church’

Sorry you have no one of any faith in your life or neighborhood.

Lots of well-rounded “real men” and their families involved and going to synagogues, Hindu temples, Baptist churches, Catholic Churches, Presbyterian churches, episcopal churches, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, Unitarian churches, etc.

Just because "lots" of real men engage in that activity doesn't mean there is any connection at all. Lots of real mean drink water and drive on roads.

And what’s water drinking and driving on roads a proxy for in your book?

Anyhow, you should stay in DC area forever, it suits you. Please don’t travel or go out much. You’re too narrow minded and brainwashed.

It's a proxy for nothing related to masculinity. Just like religion.

Most people and even the govt do use religion or temple/church involvement as a proxy.

For example, fed govt knows it doesn’t have to worry about Catholic or Jews as much as other demographics who are more in need and have no community or safety net, or possibly no values.

Who in the federal government knows this and how (if at all) does this knowledge manifest in laws or government regulations?

Every finance and consumer committee and dept.
Thus they can better target poor blacks and poor whites, who are overwhelming not Catholic and not Jewish and not in supportive communities.

Far from being the policy of "every finance committee and department," adopting policies that exclude Catholics and Jews because of their religious beliefs would be wildly unconstitutional. This is not how public laws work. You are wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want a real man, but society today frowns on real men, OP. Welcome to the great compromise. This is what women wanted.

Portions of society frown on it.

Enroll your son in tackle football. And then wrestling in the winter. And then lax or baseball in the spring.

Take him somewhere he can learn to fish or hunt.

Real, true masculine men exist. Not the fake masculinity. But the real one. Where men understand their responsibility to the next generation. Where they teach values and self-sufficiency. Where your son learn mental resiliency, toughness, and compassion.

Let your boy be the boy he is, assuming that you're asking bc he's different than his father

My answer would be: MOVE OUT OF THE BIZARRE WASH DC BUBBLE

Real men galore in the other areas and states. They seek work/life balance, are in shape, run businesses, coach kids sports teams, attend professional and kids sports games, BBQ meat and make pies, go to church & brunch every Sunday, spend time with extended family, review their kids’ grades work, maintain the yard and vehicles.

And a little more golf and tailgating before college games.

But otherwise it’s all good.

Lots of double dates too now that the kids are older and can stay home. Going to a speakeasy soon with some neighbors.

Idk if I equate ‘real men’ with ‘church’

Sorry you have no one of any faith in your life or neighborhood.

Lots of well-rounded “real men” and their families involved and going to synagogues, Hindu temples, Baptist churches, Catholic Churches, Presbyterian churches, episcopal churches, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, Unitarian churches, etc.

I couldn't respect a grown man who believes in fairy tales.

Sounds like you never took a core liberal arts college class.

Bible, Koran and Torah are basically the history books of mankind.

Human nature is naturally greedy.

Religion is various communities attempts to counter greed and selfishness. Put something before yourself and material things. Have a sense of community. Have community goals and support. Life is hard, this will help.

Sure some extremism interpretation will create a new human god figure and goal, but those get sussed out for that they are. More human greed.

Anyways, go take a philosophy class as well. You haven’t really thought through much you claim. Things a common problem with some shallow college grads and activists right now.

Nice try. But "real men" going to church isn't about some kind of philosophy exercise. These are people who really believe there is a Man in the Sky watching, judging, and in need of money.

Like someone said, Check your biases and stop the shallow stereotypes.

You clearly don’t know anyone who goes to synagogue, temple or church semi-regularly or has milestone bar mitzvahs or communion or high holiday festivities? ?
And now yours rolling in philanthropy and donations people too?

Good luck Pp, you have a very narrow narrow perspective and understanding of people. And it shows.

What is this word salad? I truly don't know what you are trying to communicate with your disjointed and incomplete sentences. But, to answer the one direct question: yes, I know people who go to churches and synagogues. They honestly believe there exists an omnipotent being who has the ability to control everything.

That’s your personal definition, and it’s incorrect. Again stick in your ignorant lane, yours too far gone to socialize with most other people.

Just non sequitur after non sequitur. How do you live in a brain so scattered?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t be attracted to this either. It stinks but women biologically want a man who can provide for them and protect them. Posters on here will say this isn’t true or criticize you for it. But does your husband want to be married to someone pretty and pleasant? Of course he does. He wants feminine qualities in a wife and you want masculine qualities in a husband.

It's cultural, not biological.

So you don’t think men are any more visual of creatures than women?

What's that have to do with biology? Or are you so ignorant of history that you don't realize that cultural standards of what people find visually attractive shift over the years?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want a real man, but society today frowns on real men, OP. Welcome to the great compromise. This is what women wanted.

Portions of society frown on it.

Enroll your son in tackle football. And then wrestling in the winter. And then lax or baseball in the spring.

Take him somewhere he can learn to fish or hunt.

Real, true masculine men exist. Not the fake masculinity. But the real one. Where men understand their responsibility to the next generation. Where they teach values and self-sufficiency. Where your son learn mental resiliency, toughness, and compassion.

Let your boy be the boy he is, assuming that you're asking bc he's different than his father

My answer would be: MOVE OUT OF THE BIZARRE WASH DC BUBBLE

Real men galore in the other areas and states. They seek work/life balance, are in shape, run businesses, coach kids sports teams, attend professional and kids sports games, BBQ meat and make pies, go to church & brunch every Sunday, spend time with extended family, review their kids’ grades work, maintain the yard and vehicles.

And a little more golf and tailgating before college games.

But otherwise it’s all good.

Lots of double dates too now that the kids are older and can stay home. Going to a speakeasy soon with some neighbors.

Idk if I equate ‘real men’ with ‘church’

Sorry you have no one of any faith in your life or neighborhood.

Lots of well-rounded “real men” and their families involved and going to synagogues, Hindu temples, Baptist churches, Catholic Churches, Presbyterian churches, episcopal churches, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, Unitarian churches, etc.

I couldn't respect a grown man who believes in fairy tales.

Believing something got created out of nothing and believing something as complex as a human body evolved out of nothing is the dumbest fairytale ever

Anonymous wrote:I love my husband but he is not like...a man. He does not have a big career or even works outside of the home! He runs a small business and hardly leaves the house. He cooks dinner most nights and does not show any interest in physical fitness or sports. He does not have male friends and he is a recluse.

We have a 3 year old that I know will seek out his father in terms of how to be a man, when the time comes. Is my situation as dire as being a single mom in terms of having role models for our son?

I’m in the same boat. I married DH because he was safe and very different from my abusive father. I’ve since learned that there is much more to a good man than just not hitting women. Under his passivity lies a lot of insecurity, self-pity, and laziness. I’m lonely, unsatisfied, and overworked because rising to all the occasions of life and parenting falls to me. He crumbles with panic attacks and hostility under the smallest stress.

Anonymous wrote:Therapy for coping skills or detaching may help too.

Therapy should also delve into why OP has such old-school, stereotyped ideas of what is "masculine." She needs to think about why she married him in the first place, what was attractive about him to her then, and why her attitude has changed and/or why he's changed, if he really has. If she's turned off, she's turned off, and it's OK to admit and own that, but unless she wants to divorce over this, they could actually try to work on the marriage, rather than her just resenting him. He might be shocked to hear what she is thinking about him, and might want to talk about it....IF she will actually communicate with him, rather than stewing in her disdain.

Therapy for coping skills or detaching may help too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love my husband but he is not like...a man. He does not have a big career or even works outside of the home! He runs a small business and hardly leaves the house. He cooks dinner most nights and does not show any interest in physical fitness or sports. He does not have male friends and he is a recluse.

We have a 3 year old that I know will seek out his father in terms of how to be a man, when the time comes. Is my situation as dire as being a single mom in terms of having role models for our son?

Just ignore him, do a family budget every 6 mos together, hang out with more normal people and families, get out of the house more.

Reclusive adults are in shut down mode and won’t get help unless they themselves want it.

+1

Do the above over the next 4-6 months and also do a couple divorce attorney consults so you know your options.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want a real man, but society today frowns on real men, OP. Welcome to the great compromise. This is what women wanted.

Portions of society frown on it.

Enroll your son in tackle football. And then wrestling in the winter. And then lax or baseball in the spring.

Take him somewhere he can learn to fish or hunt.

Real, true masculine men exist. Not the fake masculinity. But the real one. Where men understand their responsibility to the next generation. Where they teach values and self-sufficiency. Where your son learn mental resiliency, toughness, and compassion.

Let your boy be the boy he is, assuming that you're asking bc he's different than his father

My answer would be: MOVE OUT OF THE BIZARRE WASH DC BUBBLE

Real men galore in the other areas and states. They seek work/life balance, are in shape, run businesses, coach kids sports teams, attend professional and kids sports games, BBQ meat and make pies, go to church & brunch every Sunday, spend time with extended family, review their kids’ grades work, maintain the yard and vehicles.

And a little more golf and tailgating before college games.

But otherwise it’s all good.

Lots of double dates too now that the kids are older and can stay home. Going to a speakeasy soon with some neighbors.

Idk if I equate ‘real men’ with ‘church’

Sorry you have no one of any faith in your life or neighborhood.

Lots of well-rounded “real men” and their families involved and going to synagogues, Hindu temples, Baptist churches, Catholic Churches, Presbyterian churches, episcopal churches, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, Unitarian churches, etc.

Just because "lots" of real men engage in that activity doesn't mean there is any connection at all. Lots of real mean drink water and drive on roads.

And what’s water drinking and driving on roads a proxy for in your book?

Anyhow, you should stay in DC area forever, it suits you. Please don’t travel or go out much. You’re too narrow minded and brainwashed.

It's a proxy for nothing related to masculinity. Just like religion.

Most people and even the govt do use religion or temple/church involvement as a proxy.

For example, fed govt knows it doesn’t have to worry about Catholic or Jews as much as other demographics who are more in need and have no community or safety net, or possibly no values.

Who in the federal government knows this and how (if at all) does this knowledge manifest in laws or government regulations?

Every finance and consumer committee and dept.
Thus they can better target poor blacks and poor whites, who are overwhelming not Catholic and not Jewish and not in supportive communities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You want a real man, but society today frowns on real men, OP. Welcome to the great compromise. This is what women wanted.

Portions of society frown on it.

Enroll your son in tackle football. And then wrestling in the winter. And then lax or baseball in the spring.

Take him somewhere he can learn to fish or hunt.

Real, true masculine men exist. Not the fake masculinity. But the real one. Where men understand their responsibility to the next generation. Where they teach values and self-sufficiency. Where your son learn mental resiliency, toughness, and compassion.

Let your boy be the boy he is, assuming that you're asking bc he's different than his father

My answer would be: MOVE OUT OF THE BIZARRE WASH DC BUBBLE

Real men galore in the other areas and states. They seek work/life balance, are in shape, run businesses, coach kids sports teams, attend professional and kids sports games, BBQ meat and make pies, go to church & brunch every Sunday, spend time with extended family, review their kids’ grades work, maintain the yard and vehicles.

And a little more golf and tailgating before college games.

But otherwise it’s all good.

Lots of double dates too now that the kids are older and can stay home. Going to a speakeasy soon with some neighbors.

Idk if I equate ‘real men’ with ‘church’

Sorry you have no one of any faith in your life or neighborhood.

Lots of well-rounded “real men” and their families involved and going to synagogues, Hindu temples, Baptist churches, Catholic Churches, Presbyterian churches, episcopal churches, Lutheran churches, Methodist churches, Unitarian churches, etc.

I couldn't respect a grown man who believes in fairy tales.

Sounds like you never took a core liberal arts college class.

Bible, Koran and Torah are basically the history books of mankind.

Human nature is naturally greedy.

Religion is various communities attempts to counter greed and selfishness. Put something before yourself and material things. Have a sense of community. Have community goals and support. Life is hard, this will help.

Sure some extremism interpretation will create a new human god figure and goal, but those get sussed out for that they are. More human greed.

Anyways, go take a philosophy class as well. You haven’t really thought through much you claim. Things a common problem with some shallow college grads and activists right now.

Nice try. But "real men" going to church isn't about some kind of philosophy exercise. These are people who really believe there is a Man in the Sky watching, judging, and in need of money.

Like someone said, Check your biases and stop the shallow stereotypes.

You clearly don’t know anyone who goes to synagogue, temple or church semi-regularly or has milestone bar mitzvahs or communion or high holiday festivities? ?
And now yours rolling in philanthropy and donations people too?

Good luck Pp, you have a very narrow narrow perspective and understanding of people. And it shows.

What is this word salad? I truly don't know what you are trying to communicate with your disjointed and incomplete sentences. But, to answer the one direct question: yes, I know people who go to churches and synagogues. They honestly believe there exists an omnipotent being who has the ability to control everything.

That’s your personal definition, and it’s incorrect. Again stick in your ignorant lane, yours too far gone to socialize with most other people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t be attracted to this either. It stinks but women biologically want a man who can provide for them and protect them. Posters on here will say this isn’t true or criticize you for it. But does your husband want to be married to someone pretty and pleasant? Of course he does. He wants feminine qualities in a wife and you want masculine qualities in a husband.

It's cultural, not biological.

So you don’t think men are any more visual of creatures than women?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, you can’t change who people are at their core. If your spouse isn’t the person you want him to be, leaving is the kindest thing for you both.

This is some real mental gymnastics here to make leaving the kind thing to do.

It's not fair or a reasonable goal for OP to ask her husband to be someone different, especially if he hasn't changed dramatically since they met. After all, personality tends to remain stable in adulthood. She has somehow decided that the man she chose to partner with is no longer the man she wants to be partnered to.

The general rule of good boundaries apply here: While you can ask for what you need, you can't control others, only your own behavior. OP is within her rights to say "Can you help me with this project [that I perceive as a masculine household duty," or "Can we try something different in the bedroom?" And if those things will satisfy her need for a masculine man and her husband feels comfortable and uncoerced in complying, great. Then communication is the solution.

So if OP wants someone with different interests, different attitudes, and different skill sets, and/or different body type, what she wants is a different man. These things are basic compatibility issues, the type of stuff you sort out when dating or in pre-marital counseling. If she doesn't think she can learn to accept and fully embrace the man she has, then she needs to walk away from this relationship. Barring reaching that acceptance, she's going to dislike or resent her husband for who he is, which is a dead end from which a relationship cannot recover.