Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quote from Maud Hart Lovelace, the author of the Betsy-Tracy books.

I try to give my 6yo a similar childhood - very few structured activities, lots of free time especially outdoors, minimal screens, minimal expectations other than manners and helping at home - and I will still fail because nobody else does the same. We have a neighborhood full of kids but those kids are either in activities or on screens at home. Playgrounds sit empty on weekends. You can’t just run up to someone’s house on a weekday afternoon or weekend and ring their doorbell because chances are they won’t be around. It sucks, but oh well, I try my best. And my DD is a generally happy, cheerful kid so I guess there are other ways to have a happy childhood.

I am a Gen xer and had this kind of childhood. We kids ran free in our suburban neighborhood weekends and summers and were in and out of each others houses. Things I remember: finding a stash of really mast porn in the drainage tunnel under the road and looking at it with my 5 year old neighbor, among others. A group of boys bullying little Jimmy up the street, who was a bit slow, into pulling down his pants in someone’s backyard shed. Kids smoking their parents’ cigarettes. 12 year old girl neighbor rolling up covered in hickeys from her much older “boyfriend.” Setting off firecrackers and Kyle on the next block having to go to the ER from getting burned. My brother getting chased by a neighbor with a gun because they were tee peeing a crotchety old man’s house. My friend Susie getting flashed in the park. Running across a 4 lane highway with no crosswalks dodging traffic to get to the Ben Franklin to buy Jolly Ranchers. Random men in pickup trucks stopping to talk to us until someone’s mom who was actually paying attention for a change instead of lying in her darkened bedrooms “resting” opened the door and called out to us. I could go on.

Damn. Now that’s what I’m talking about!

Anonymous wrote:Quote from Maud Hart Lovelace, the author of the Betsy-Tracy books.

I try to give my 6yo a similar childhood - very few structured activities, lots of free time especially outdoors, minimal screens, minimal expectations other than manners and helping at home - and I will still fail because nobody else does the same. We have a neighborhood full of kids but those kids are either in activities or on screens at home. Playgrounds sit empty on weekends. You can’t just run up to someone’s house on a weekday afternoon or weekend and ring their doorbell because chances are they won’t be around. It sucks, but oh well, I try my best. And my DD is a generally happy, cheerful kid so I guess there are other ways to have a happy childhood.

I am a Gen xer and had this kind of childhood. We kids ran free in our suburban neighborhood weekends and summers and were in and out of each others houses. Things I remember: finding a stash of really mast porn in the drainage tunnel under the road and looking at it with my 5 year old neighbor, among others. A group of boys bullying little Jimmy up the street, who was a bit slow, into pulling down his pants in someone’s backyard shed. Kids smoking their parents’ cigarettes. 12 year old girl neighbor rolling up covered in hickeys from her much older “boyfriend.” Setting off firecrackers and Kyle on the next block having to go to the ER from getting burned. My brother getting chased by a neighbor with a gun because they were tee peeing a crotchety old man’s house. My friend Susie getting flashed in the park. Running across a 4 lane highway with no crosswalks dodging traffic to get to the Ben Franklin to buy Jolly Ranchers. Random men in pickup trucks stopping to talk to us until someone’s mom who was actually paying attention for a change instead of lying in her darkened bedrooms “resting” opened the door and called out to us. I could go on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Yeah, but what if they are right? Maria Montessori had a theory that the more we build up civilization, the more we restrict the movement of children. As cars and buses take over roads and communities, children have less freedom to run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread, carton of milk and stick of butter (70s Sesame Street reference). They also have less freedom to explore the outdoors, and to some extent the indoors (electricity, TVs, etc have taken over). Kids do fewer chores now and have less opportunity to see how the world works (where food comes from, clothing is made etc). As the world gets more complicated, we are further removed from the very things kids need to see to understand how the world works and what is really important to keep the world going.

Can we keep the lofty quotations and sermonizing out of it, then? If it's about the children, and not about you? Not about you having "The Answer" which everyone else is missing? (Gotta include that last part.)

Post a thread stating that you know, I don't think my kids are getting as much unstructured time as they might need, and I'd like them to be more active. Does anyone have any strategies that worked, or resources? You aren't going to get the eye-rolling and snark you get from standing on the pulpit and shining a spotlight on your stage with the hokey parts.

Just, you know, talk about it. Without preaching.

OMG guys my kids don’t do like tons of activities. Like, they did rec soccer and then like my kid broke their foot so now like we aren’t’ doing much. And I LIKE it and so do they. And like we like listen to music together that is fun. And they do instruments, but only private lessons for 30 minutes like a week.
We are vibing on the down time. And like THRIVING because i finally have time to make my kid run unto the grocery store and buy stuff on their own. They also like make dinner and help plan recipes because we have TIME.

#slowlife!

Grocery stores deliver now. And, kids can be in activities and cook. You sound selfish and self centered.

Trolls need to get a life, honestly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Yeah, but what if they are right? Maria Montessori had a theory that the more we build up civilization, the more we restrict the movement of children. As cars and buses take over roads and communities, children have less freedom to run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread, carton of milk and stick of butter (70s Sesame Street reference). They also have less freedom to explore the outdoors, and to some extent the indoors (electricity, TVs, etc have taken over). Kids do fewer chores now and have less opportunity to see how the world works (where food comes from, clothing is made etc). As the world gets more complicated, we are further removed from the very things kids need to see to understand how the world works and what is really important to keep the world going.

Can we keep the lofty quotations and sermonizing out of it, then? If it's about the children, and not about you? Not about you having "The Answer" which everyone else is missing? (Gotta include that last part.)

Post a thread stating that you know, I don't think my kids are getting as much unstructured time as they might need, and I'd like them to be more active. Does anyone have any strategies that worked, or resources? You aren't going to get the eye-rolling and snark you get from standing on the pulpit and shining a spotlight on your stage with the hokey parts.

Just, you know, talk about it. Without preaching.

OMG guys my kids don’t do like tons of activities. Like, they did rec soccer and then like my kid broke their foot so now like we aren’t’ doing much. And I LIKE it and so do they. And like we like listen to music together that is fun. And they do instruments, but only private lessons for 30 minutes like a week.
We are vibing on the down time. And like THRIVING because i finally have time to make my kid run unto the grocery store and buy stuff on their own. They also like make dinner and help plan recipes because we have TIME.

#slowlife!

Grocery stores deliver now. And, kids can be in activities and cook. You sound selfish and self centered.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is bizarre how posters here are unaware of the benefits and needs of unstructured play for kids and keep justifying their childrens scheduled activities. The reality is everyone is in a rat race. Parents sign kids up for activities because of FOMO.. because their child will be left behind. That is the ugly truth. We are all in such a competitive race that we forget that just because Larlo likes piano it doesn’t mean Maya should also do piano.. and we keep signing them up and then we lie and justify that our kids love their activities. Very few kids love their activities so much that they want to go to one every freaking day. Keep fooling yourselves..

This is the type of thing I have a problem with. Folks like OP are on such a quest to give their kids free play, opportunity to roam, get messy, etc. that they make up this false narrative about structured activities like this -- they eschew and disparage them all. They think no kids actually enjoys any amount of them; they think there is no benefit in any of them and it's just about FOMO instead. Baloney!

An ES kid who does like one rec sport and plays an instrument is not over scheduled, but folks like OP would have you believe they are. There are well-documented mental, social, and emotional benefits to those activities just like free play\. Folks like OP seem to have no concept of how many hours are in a day and how many days are in a week. It's this bizarre all or nothing proposition with them.

My 10 yr old DD loves her rec soccer team and LOVES LOVES LOVES the musical theatre program she is a part of. She still has plenty of time to bike ride with her neighborhood friends, play with her sister in the backyard, hang out with friends, etc... Most ES kids don't get that much homework (she doesn't at her school) so there really is plenty of time. She is benefiting from all of it and a happy kid.

You have a comprehension problem. No one is saying one or 2 activities mean overscheduling. A lot of kids have an activity every single day or even more than one activity per day. And no one is saying that some kids don’t love their activities. But most dont

You mean my kid! So, I should tell the, what? No to pursuing their interests to staying home for your kids to come over for video games? Nope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Yeah, but what if they are right? Maria Montessori had a theory that the more we build up civilization, the more we restrict the movement of children. As cars and buses take over roads and communities, children have less freedom to run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread, carton of milk and stick of butter (70s Sesame Street reference). They also have less freedom to explore the outdoors, and to some extent the indoors (electricity, TVs, etc have taken over). Kids do fewer chores now and have less opportunity to see how the world works (where food comes from, clothing is made etc). As the world gets more complicated, we are further removed from the very things kids need to see to understand how the world works and what is really important to keep the world going.

Do you grow your own food and make your own clothes? Do you really understand how life saving medicines work, or what the Internet is? Do you feel worse off from people living a hundred years ago because of it, or like you have a lesser understanding of how the works works overall?

I'm all for unstructured time spent exploring, etc, but let's not pretend that the past hundred+ years has been a net negative for childhood and society.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You sound insufferable.

OP does not sound insufferable.

But she kind of does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Yeah, but what if they are right? Maria Montessori had a theory that the more we build up civilization, the more we restrict the movement of children. As cars and buses take over roads and communities, children have less freedom to run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread, carton of milk and stick of butter (70s Sesame Street reference). They also have less freedom to explore the outdoors, and to some extent the indoors (electricity, TVs, etc have taken over). Kids do fewer chores now and have less opportunity to see how the world works (where food comes from, clothing is made etc). As the world gets more complicated, we are further removed from the very things kids need to see to understand how the world works and what is really important to keep the world going.

Can we keep the lofty quotations and sermonizing out of it, then? If it's about the children, and not about you? Not about you having "The Answer" which everyone else is missing? (Gotta include that last part.)

Post a thread stating that you know, I don't think my kids are getting as much unstructured time as they might need, and I'd like them to be more active. Does anyone have any strategies that worked, or resources? You aren't going to get the eye-rolling and snark you get from standing on the pulpit and shining a spotlight on your stage with the hokey parts.

Just, you know, talk about it. Without preaching.

OMG guys my kids don’t do like tons of activities. Like, they did rec soccer and then like my kid broke their foot so now like we aren’t’ doing much. And I LIKE it and so do they. And like we like listen to music together that is fun. And they do instruments, but only private lessons for 30 minutes like a week.
We are vibing on the down time. And like THRIVING because i finally have time to make my kid run unto the grocery store and buy stuff on their own. They also like make dinner and help plan recipes because we have TIME.

#slowlife!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is bizarre how posters here are unaware of the benefits and needs of unstructured play for kids and keep justifying their childrens scheduled activities. The reality is everyone is in a rat race. Parents sign kids up for activities because of FOMO.. because their child will be left behind. That is the ugly truth. We are all in such a competitive race that we forget that just because Larlo likes piano it doesn’t mean Maya should also do piano.. and we keep signing them up and then we lie and justify that our kids love their activities. Very few kids love their activities so much that they want to go to one every freaking day. Keep fooling yourselves..

This is the type of thing I have a problem with. Folks like OP are on such a quest to give their kids free play, opportunity to roam, get messy, etc. that they make up this false narrative about structured activities like this -- they eschew and disparage them all. They think no kids actually enjoys any amount of them; they think there is no benefit in any of them and it's just about FOMO instead. Baloney!

An ES kid who does like one rec sport and plays an instrument is not over scheduled, but folks like OP would have you believe they are. There are well-documented mental, social, and emotional benefits to those activities just like free play\. Folks like OP seem to have no concept of how many hours are in a day and how many days are in a week. It's this bizarre all or nothing proposition with them.

My 10 yr old DD loves her rec soccer team and LOVES LOVES LOVES the musical theatre program she is a part of. She still has plenty of time to bike ride with her neighborhood friends, play with her sister in the backyard, hang out with friends, etc... Most ES kids don't get that much homework (she doesn't at her school) so there really is plenty of time. She is benefiting from all of it and a happy kid.

You have a comprehension problem. No one is saying one or 2 activities mean overscheduling. A lot of kids have an activity every single day or even more than one activity per day. And no one is saying that some kids don’t love their activities. But most dont

The post I quoted said that the "ugly truth" is that parents sign their kids up for activities because of FOMO. And you think "most" kids don't love activities. These are narratives you have both made up. Ok, I bet most kids don't like math tutoring, sure. But I'm talking about team sports and theatre programs. My DD and her teammates/cast mates DO love it!

In DC a lot of parents do sign their kids up for activities out of FOMO. That doesn't mean every activity is about that or that no kid should ever do an activity. But if you parent in this area, surely you've encountered the competitive scheduling of activities. You see it on this website a lot where people don't filter it at all, but I've seen it in person too. One person will say their daughter takes ballet and another person will say "oh mines' in ballet AND tap and we start gymnastics in January." And then someone else will chime in that their kid has no time for ballet because they just started travel soccer and it's four days a week plus they do year round swim and have language classes on Sunday. And so on and so on. I am resolute to stay out of it, but even I will sometimes walk away from exchanges like that thinking "oh no should we be doing year round swim? if we don't and DD wants to do swim team, will this ruin her chances?"

I've also encountered it outside DC. I have family and friends in Pennsylvania and Colorado and both live in very sport-focused areas where it's common for elementary kids to do travel sports and language and play an instrument and do scouts or similar on top of it.

A lot of it has to do with competitiveness for both private K-12 and college, and the fear that if their kid doesn't do all these things, they won't be competitive for admissions. And it also has to do with parents who have a lot of disposable income and using it try and give their kids everything, and in the process depriving their kids of things like "free time" and "being alone" and "relaxing." It's definitely a real phenomenon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Yeah, but what if they are right? Maria Montessori had a theory that the more we build up civilization, the more we restrict the movement of children. As cars and buses take over roads and communities, children have less freedom to run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread, carton of milk and stick of butter (70s Sesame Street reference). They also have less freedom to explore the outdoors, and to some extent the indoors (electricity, TVs, etc have taken over). Kids do fewer chores now and have less opportunity to see how the world works (where food comes from, clothing is made etc). As the world gets more complicated, we are further removed from the very things kids need to see to understand how the world works and what is really important to keep the world going.

Can we keep the lofty quotations and sermonizing out of it, then? If it's about the children, and not about you? Not about you having "The Answer" which everyone else is missing? (Gotta include that last part.)

Post a thread stating that you know, I don't think my kids are getting as much unstructured time as they might need, and I'd like them to be more active. Does anyone have any strategies that worked, or resources? You aren't going to get the eye-rolling and snark you get from standing on the pulpit and shining a spotlight on your stage with the hokey parts.

Just, you know, talk about it. Without preaching.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Yeah, but what if they are right? Maria Montessori had a theory that the more we build up civilization, the more we restrict the movement of children. As cars and buses take over roads and communities, children have less freedom to run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread, carton of milk and stick of butter (70s Sesame Street reference). They also have less freedom to explore the outdoors, and to some extent the indoors (electricity, TVs, etc have taken over). Kids do fewer chores now and have less opportunity to see how the world works (where food comes from, clothing is made etc). As the world gets more complicated, we are further removed from the very things kids need to see to understand how the world works and what is really important to keep the world going.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Yes, it's a little bit of cosplay, in a way. They see themselves from the outside as fitting in with that mindset, that tradition. It was Dickon's mom in The Secret Garden, too -- the problem with the "crippled boy" Colin was needing fresh air and to be able to play outside.

It's in the Gene Stratton-Porter books, too, like A Girl of the Limberlost. The healthy young people were the ones who spent time outside in the fresh air, the girls who didn't "paint their faces" and follow the dictates of overly commercial society. The ones who are in Nature!! And the story will unfold to prove they are right, because that's what it is -- a story that someone is telling.

There is a certain type of parenting which fetishizes this. It's important to identify to oneself and others as The Other, as someone with different values and special insights. It doesn't work if you acknowledge other parents in real life are walking a road with some from this approach, and some from that, tailored to their individual children. You can't even see when people have agreed with you (although rejected the fetishizing of it), because that isn't making you special enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

Kids are growing up too fast though, faster than I think alot of us did. I participated in a thread a few years back where a poster said that they had a neighborhood full of kids, but they all seemed to stop play at around 9. That's just way too young.

Anonymous wrote:Don't base your life around a book of fiction about the 1890s which was probably written with nostalgia and selective memory after the two world wars.

My grandparents lived then; while in some ways they had an simpler life, in many ways they did not. Kids often didn't graduate from high school and went to work in cities or on farms, there was a lot of death of siblings and parents from childhood diseases and bacterial infections.

I remember reading Caddie Woodlawn at 12 and longing for that life. It was a sweet story but it wasn't mine.

As someone who reads a lot of books from the 1890s and earlier — it’s funny how OP’s sentiment is a constant. Louisa May Alcott’s “good” parents are always worrying about how kids are growing up too fast and how the fast pace of modern life is bad for their nerves. Someday maybe I’ll do a retelling of Little Women in the media of a parenting forum.

I don’t see mental health issues in Indians and they are overscheduled to the tits.