Anonymous
Post 11/30/2023 09:02     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:Seems like OP should have put more thought into what medical specialty to go into if OB is so inflexible. There’s a reason why women flock to specialties like derm. So this is a matter of choosing the right specialty.

My friend works with a retired OB that only comes in twice a week in a big medical group. So there are part time jobs. But seems like OP’s income is needed. So that’s a reason for finding a partner that brings in more.

Life lessons. take heart OP, this phase of young children will pass and there will be other opportunities to bond with them.


One really can't know what life with babies and kids is going to be like - and not every doctor can get into the most coveted specialties. We need OB's, especially women OB's, so I don't think women should be discouraged from the profession.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2023 08:50     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is tragically ironic that an ob gyn who is extremely important for helping women bring babies into the world can’t breastfeed and bond with her own baby. What a terrible system we have.


People don’t question medical training but to me it seems to involve a sort of hazing process.

I had my first child during law school and my second directly after. Because of various relatives with fertility issues and my own hormone problems I was very concerned that I would not be able to conceive later. There was a BIG cost to my career but that is the choice I made. The world is not built for professional women to have children in their 20s. It is possible but will cost you in a big way.


I have a PhD and had a similar experience with fertility concerns and not wanting to put off kids. It had a huge impact on my career too - really limited what I could do and apply for at that critical end of school/new grad period. Something else worked out, but my friends who waited until their mid-30s were much better off financially and didn't have to make the same career compromises. (That said, many had to go through fertility treatments.) I agree, the world isn't built for it.


Do you wish you had kids later?
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2023 05:40     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Seems like OP should have put more thought into what medical specialty to go into if OB is so inflexible. There’s a reason why women flock to specialties like derm. So this is a matter of choosing the right specialty.

My friend works with a retired OB that only comes in twice a week in a big medical group. So there are part time jobs. But seems like OP’s income is needed. So that’s a reason for finding a partner that brings in more.

Life lessons. take heart OP, this phase of young children will pass and there will be other opportunities to bond with them.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2023 05:00     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:Why not go work for the VA? Then you would get fed parental leave and the same amount of vacation and sick leave that other feds get. Many fed supervisors will also let you take unpaid leave after you exceed the paid time off if you don't have any more leave.



OP is an ob/gyn. The VA's patient population is really heavily male and elderly. I think what many of you are missing is that physician roles are in large part not interchangeable. My husband is a VA physician and for years hired physicians for the VA. For primary care, the VA wants board-certified internists. That would require OP doing another 3 year residency. The VA is not hiring ob/gyns for these roles. Sure, each VA medical center has a few ob/gyns on staff to do gyn surgeries and menopausal care but they outsource all ob care.

I work as a physician in value-based care (insurance work). We hire physicians that have done this for their entire career. Public health departments generally want doctors with public health training (i.e an MPH). ERs (in urban areas) only want board-certified ER physicians who have completed ER medicine residencies. (Some rural ER still use family medicine physicians or whoever they can get but even this is changing). My brother is an ER physician and I wouldn't have the first clue how to do his job. Urgent cares will take internists/family medicine doctors but OP is neither of those.

OP's situation is far from hopeless but it isn't the instant fix that some of you are making it. When my company hires for a physician role we get hundreds of resumes from physicians seeking to leave clinical work. We can generally pick someone with the very specific experience we want---a generalist who has then spent a career from residency on working in value-based care. We don't hire a random ob/gyn.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2023 20:51     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is tragically ironic that an ob gyn who is extremely important for helping women bring babies into the world can’t breastfeed and bond with her own baby. What a terrible system we have.


People don’t question medical training but to me it seems to involve a sort of hazing process.

I had my first child during law school and my second directly after. Because of various relatives with fertility issues and my own hormone problems I was very concerned that I would not be able to conceive later. There was a BIG cost to my career but that is the choice I made. The world is not built for professional women to have children in their 20s. It is possible but will cost you in a big way.


I have a PhD and had a similar experience with fertility concerns and not wanting to put off kids. It had a huge impact on my career too - really limited what I could do and apply for at that critical end of school/new grad period. Something else worked out, but my friends who waited until their mid-30s were much better off financially and didn't have to make the same career compromises. (That said, many had to go through fertility treatments.) I agree, the world isn't built for it.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2023 20:40     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:No mention of how this effects medical care.


You mean that fact that lots of moms in medicine can’t work full time and be the parents they want so they have to cut back alot or leave medicine entirely leading to the shortage of doctors that people complain about on the health and medicine forum?
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2023 19:18     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
No mention of how this effects medical care.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2023 17:59     Subject: Re:Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
If you are a physician, I would consider part time. Hospitalist, large practices will sometimes hire physicians on a part time basis, public health departments, walk-in clinics, etc.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2023 10:40     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:It is tragically ironic that an ob gyn who is extremely important for helping women bring babies into the world can’t breastfeed and bond with her own baby. What a terrible system we have.


People don’t question medical training but to me it seems to involve a sort of hazing process.

I had my first child during law school and my second directly after. Because of various relatives with fertility issues and my own hormone problems I was very concerned that I would not be able to conceive later. There was a BIG cost to my career but that is the choice I made. The world is not built for professional women to have children in their 20s. It is possible but will cost you in a big way.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2023 20:48     Subject: Re:Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Typical of out of touch doctors who pity themselves. To think that law is family friendly is really the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2023 16:42     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And I should have considered this more when choosing a career. I graduated during the recession so picked medicine because you can always have a job. But now, I see my friends in law and tech who get 5-6 months paid maternity leave and get to work from home and pump. Meanwhile, I have to fight to get 12 weeks and I work such long hours that I never bonded well with my first baby. Pumping is an inconvenience so I will likely end up formula feeding again (which is fine but I wish I could have more ability to do exclusive breastfeeding.) I should switch careers but I feel trapped since I trained so long to do this. Just wish I had understood this decision more prior to making it.


I’m a fed lawyer and had my kids a few years before federal parental leave existed. My agency is very family friendly, but I still only had my accrued leave to take after my kids were born, so I was back in the office after 10 weeks when I was out of leave. With my second kid I was able to telework 2 days a week. There is a lactation room at my office complex, which is a huge benefit, but it was still hard to find time to pump sometimes, when I often had back to back in person meetings.

I don’t doubt that your situation is challenging and I truly do empathize, but I don’t think you picked the wrong career. We were raised to believe that there is such a thing as career/family balance, when really it’s like a see saw. Sometimes career wins and sometimes family wins. Mom is stuck in the middle hoping not to fall off. We don’t have enough institutional or structural support for families, even in family friendly workplaces. It is really difficult for so many of us. It’s disheartening.


This is so true. Being a working mom in a busy career is really tough, even more so when you are in the pregnancy, baby, and toddler years. I was miserable on a daily basis working when my two kids were tiny but it gets so much better. Still hard, but better. Sending you a hug, OP.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2023 13:02     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:Neither law nor tech is family friendly. Just because they have generous leave doesn't mean they don't look down on women having life balance.


+1. 5-6 months of maternity or paternity leave is great but if you are in law (white shoe firm or even an associate GC at a college) you are in the office a lot. Tech is mostly in office or hybrid and finance is another track with great maternity leave but in office expectations. There are niche roles in all high paying career tracks where you can get balance (I’m in one) in the sense you can work from home and make $300K+ in your mid-30s but what I’m seeing is that now roles similar to my role with better salaries are demanding hybrid or in office work and even in my job, I’ll need to start traveling some and I have calls at night (between 7-9 pm) 3-4x/week.

Just trying to help you understand the grass is not much greener elsewhere but if you do want to pivot you may want to try being advisor to a start up or telehealth - my friend left emergency medicine for a startup after a decade plus and her hours are better.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2023 06:31     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
[quote=Anonymous]

Thank you for understanding. It’s not about the money. We lived off alot less during training and I’m fine with that. I think my husband’s income is fine. It’s more about basically sacrificing all my years of working hard if I leave at this point. It’s not as easy as people say to just go part time! Esp now with how health care is going most large health systems want full time or promise part time but then make you cover for people and it is essentially full time. It truly is potentially giving up a career and all the training if I want to have the bonding others have with their babies esp if I decide to take 6 months with this baby (not in the cards for this job). I can just suck it up like I did with my daughter but it still pains me that she didn’t bond with me.[/quote]

OP - you get second and third and fourth chances, with babies and kids. You truly do. I know people think there's this miraculous "infant bonding" period but it is more complex than that. If you didn't spend a lot of time with your daughter as an infant... you can still form those connections later.
Anonymous
Post 11/28/2023 05:43     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:It is tragically ironic that an ob gyn who is extremely important for helping women bring babies into the world can’t breastfeed and bond with her own baby. What a terrible system we have.

+1.
Anonymous
Post 11/27/2023 15:15     Subject: Rant: I stupidly picked a career that’s not family friendly
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You are overemphasizing maternity leave and breast feeding vs everything that comes after. As mid career professional, you will have more flexibility as a doctor than the lawyers or tech workers (and more job security). Trust me, in a few years, you will be very glad you made the choice you did!!!!



Thank you. You are probably right. Just in my feels knowing I’ll have a repeat with my last baby who barely knew me and was attached to dad and not me since I immediately go back to an intense schedule after leave. I’m hoping that if we go for a third, I’ll at least be financially in a place to take a break or pivot and have that bonding others have described (maybe even breastfeed exclusively). I’d like to at least have that experience once. But I agree long term it’s a good career. I appreciate that overall you all have been kind in your responses.


I'm so sorry OP, people have been hard on you I think. My close family member is an OB and medical training is incredibly difficult, most posting probably do not understand the intensity of the schedule. I also think people really underestimate the benefits of work from home on family life. Yes most lawyers work long hours, but most physicians early in their career work long hours but are outside the home 5 days a week (sometimes 5.5-6 if they need to round on a saturday morning, or have call shifts). It really is an added difference. Are you an attending now though? It sounds like you are, are there any other private practice options that require less call? Is that part of your problem? Particularly thinking about a practice that employs hospitalists to primarily cover nights etc.

How old is your oldest? Pumping on the go has gotten MUCH better in recent years, and I do think that helped my sister to feel connected during that first year. She used the Elvie stride (would wear it during surgery and there is a button you can press I think she said on her hip to turn it on when it is time). She was able to exclusively breastfeed for a year if that gives you any hope. I know this is a piss poor solution to your issue, I do wish policies were better.

I think a lot of people responding know physicians a little farther along. Most don't go part time right out of residency, which you likely aren't that far out of if you're in the baby phase. Physicians right out of residency need to build their skills, OP is a surgeon and has to build her skills as an independently practicing physician, it's incredibly hard to step back.

Anyway I'm sorry OP. Your job is in fact harder than most of ours, in my personal opinion from watching from afar. It is more physical, more draining. Making care decisions for patients all day long is tough and emotionally exhausting work. Don't let everyone on this thread convince you they all somehow work just as hard Aside from Big Law which I agree is incredibly stressful in other ways. That doesn't mean you should have gone into law though.. you can make this work.

I’ve worked in a hospital alongside many female residents and early career doctors and they have all made sacrifices to grow their families. Some have even decided not to breastfeed. No one has it all and the grass always looks greener elsewhere. The payoff will come down the road.