Williams

I always find these conversations about wasps funny because they mythologize a group of people who haven't really existed in a very long time.

My family is almost 100 per cent wasp, as in founded this country wasp, as in fled religious persecution wasp, as in fought in every conflict from the Bacon rebellion (both sides) on. But we're not wasps at all. I was the first person in my family born east of the Mississippi in almost 200 years and I will inherit nothing. There is nothing.

I'm not bragging, this isn't something to be proud of ashamed of. I'm bringing it up because there's a huge number of Americans just like me. Your DAR and your Dames women aren't coming from the people with summer palaces in Maine, or those who go sailing in the cape. They're coming from farm country. They're coming from factories.

The WASP illusion is very real, but it's full of people who are about as waspy as Ralph Lauren. Nothing wrong with that--but my point is, the "snob" appeal factor comes more from trying to keep up the appearance of wasp gentility than any bloodline.

I suspect this kind of class thing is nothing new. There's always been someone getting their family name on a crest or a tartan, becoming the ruling caste by adopting its mannerisms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a wasp here’s my 2 cents:
Princeton and Dartmouth over all the other ives -too leftist
All NESCACs
Seven sisters
UVM
Pine Manor
(Let me think by state)
Bucknell, F&M, CM is a good school but doesn’t have that snob appeal
The Quakers
UVA, HS, W&L URichmond Hollins
Wake is meh …
UNC
Duke - too many Yankees mixes up the status quo
Elon- too popular
AppState -boho in a good way
Rhodes- lots of strive-y yankee moms want their girls to go there
Sewanee- NOT
Vandy - I guess
UTK- lots of drinking
SpringHill College
Maybe Kenyon
Don’t know much about anything further west in terms of snob appeal.
Visited SMU once, kids looked too goody- goody and clean, it’s a dry campus etc no fun!
It’s just harder and colder in the east coast

Are you sure you’re not thinking about Baylor? SMU kids are anything but goody-goody. There is a big drug culture there.

I"m the first PP who mentioned SMU. You know what else is at SMU? The scions of -old- Texas money. Multigenerational wealth.

Yes, I am well aware that a holey sweater headband Mayflower gin-drinking NE Brahmin is not the same thing as a descendant of a Houston oil family that first cornered the Texas oil market in 1900 (and never let up). This group doesn't "need" the meritocratic degree from a Princeton to continue the family legacy and SMU is a pleasant,comfortable gathering spot until you assume your role in the company.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not for a second put Brown on this list. I suspect the majority of Brown students are strongly attracted to the lack of required classes. That’s why it is so popular with Hollywood offspring who might not be actual Ivy material, but can get by with a bunch of easier classes. At a school with snob appeal, students wouldn’t be deterred by required classes, even if they included classical languages or ancient philosophy.

Brown, Dartmouth, USC and NYU are favorite destinations of kids of super wealthy Indians.

Super wealthy Indians are not the same as old money, think WASPs. OP did not clearly describe “snob appeal.” It’s possible she just meant wealthy or smart, but I think of snob appeal as something appealing to WASPs.

Um, there are super wealthy Indians who are also old money and emit that WASP equivalent vibe.

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain what you mean by "snob?"

Do you mean old money? New money? Like people who send their kids to Swiss boarding school for high school or people who brag about their kid getting into TJ?

I've generally assumed that Americans who send their kids to Swiss boarding school is a mix of (1) enhance language skills and (2) can't get into a comparable school in States. Am I wrong?

Anonymous wrote:As a wasp here’s my 2 cents:
Princeton and Dartmouth over all the other ives -too leftist
All NESCACs
Seven sisters
UVM
Pine Manor
(Let me think by state)
Bucknell, F&M, CM is a good school but doesn’t have that snob appeal
The Quakers
UVA, HS, W&L URichmond Hollins
Wake is meh …
UNC
Duke - too many Yankees mixes up the status quo
Elon- too popular
AppState -boho in a good way
Rhodes- lots of strive-y yankee moms want their girls to go there
Sewanee- NOT
Vandy - I guess
UTK- lots of drinking
SpringHill College
Maybe Kenyon
Don’t know much about anything further west in terms of snob appeal.
Visited SMU once, kids looked too goody- goody and clean, it’s a dry campus etc no fun!
It’s just harder and colder in the east coast

Kenyon? Snob appeal? It's all pink-haired, theater kids, except for a few lacrosse players. No way. Not East Coast elite snobbery anway, not the way OP intended.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth

DDDDDDDartmouth????????

Of course Dartmouth belongs there. One of the oldest ivies with plenty of old money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we're talking historic old money/blue book WASPs, you can find your answer in this article from 1963, "Colleges of America's Upper Class" https://www.unz.com/print/SaturdayRev-1963nov16-00068/

It's Yale by a lot. Followed by Harvard, then Princeton. Then there's a sharp drop to everything else. For women, it's 7 sisters + junior colleges, more evenly mixed.

Summarizing here:

Colleges most commonly attended by the 1963 college-aged cohort:
Yale (171) > Harvard (123) > Princeton (76) >
Pennsylvania (44)> Trinity > Middlebury > Virginia> Stanford> Williams> Hobart/ North Carolina (tied)> Boston U.> Dartmouth

For women college students, also decreasing order/10+ students listed):
Smith> Vassar> Radcliffe> Wellesley> Wheaton> Bryn Mawr> Sarah Lawrence> 3 junior colleges (Bradford, Bennett, Briarcliff)> Hollins> Connecticut College> Mt. Holyoke> Wells

And for the alma maters of the men listed in the blue book:
Again, Yale (2234), Harvard close behind (1746), Princeton 3rd (1422)
Then there's a sharp drop:
Williams (325), and it goes down from there:
Columbia> Virginia> Cornell> Dartmouth> Amherst> M.I.T.> Trinity> Pennsylvania> Brown> Annapolis> West Point > N.Y.U.> California (Berkeley)> Georgetown> Colgate> North Carolina> Hamilton> Wesleyan

This was 60 years ago, though. The Ivy brand has taken a massive hit in the past decade alone.

A “massive hit” from what perspective though? Maybe to the people who rely on magazines and polls to delineate snob appeal — but the WASPs and people who value education for qualities beyond the t shirts and bumper stickers are still choosing the schools they /we always have.

Northeastern.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, UVA has long been a major snob school in the DMV. I realizes that this annoys the hell out of the UVA haters on this board, but that doesn’t change the reality of the situation and in fact probably explains it.

But, it is public. So not much snob appeal since anyone can go there.

Anyone can go there? What??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth

DDDDDDDartmouth????????

+1 Dartmouth has no place here lol. Yale and Columbia appear way snobbier.

Anonymous wrote:Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth

DDDDDDDartmouth????????

Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vanderbilt
Brown
Yale

Adding:
Harvard
Princeton
UPenn
William and Mary
Vassar
Bryn Mawr
Barnard
Scripps
Oberlin


Probably tons of other ones.

William and Mary??? I haven’t heard it described that way. More quirky LAC vibe.

Dartmouth and Princeton