Anonymous
11/05/2023 16:50
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Telling you right now engaging her will not bring you any satisfaction
I fully agree. Resist the urge, OP. It could get bad and would then interfere with the ability of your kids to be friends.
But do you want your kid to be friends with someone whose parent holds these views?
I would. I share those views. There’s nothing anti-Semitic about them.
Plus one
I was at a party this evening with several Jewish friends who have similar views .i don’t think the view that Israel is using excessive and disproportionate force is anti semitic either.
Oh thank god. I was reading and re-reading and failing to see what is anti-semitic. What about saying that there is a larger context is wrong? I don't condone what Hamas did whatsoever but what were they supposed to do? I think the people who see this as anti-semitic have never seen suffering of the type or scale of palestinians.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 16:45
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The best way to handle this:
You stand down. No engagement unless she reaches out. Then you suggest grabbing coffee…just the two of you.
Exchange pleasantries, etc. and eventually say, “Hey, I wanted to let you know that Dave saw the letter you signed since he’s an alum. Needless to say, it hurt him. And I’d be lying if I said it didn’t surprise me. I don’t want to get into a whole big thing, but I’m wondering if you feel comfortable talking about this? I’m curious what prompted you to sign it?”
Then be silent. Give her time to explain. Don’t interrupt. Just listen.
Discuss.
I suspect you two can salvage your friendship on some level assuming you want to.
But I don’t think you can vacation together with your husband, so gently flag that.
I wouldn't even ask what prompted your friend to sign the letter - what answer are you going to get that is going to help things?
She might say she felt obligated to sign?
Anonymous
11/05/2023 16:11
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Other Columbia faculty wrote and signed a response letter to this one.
Also, it is amazing to me that people cannot see that the tone and perspective of the first letter has bias. Its main point isn’t about that, but its examples and support are presented as unbiased when they are, in fact, disputed by many.
I’m sorry so many are gaslighting OP and her husband. The signers of the letter have a particular view, which they take great pains not to say explicitly, but which they show through their sourcing.
As for how to proceed, I echo others and say pull back and do not engage right now.
Of course the letter has bias. So does the response you are describing. Bias existing is not in question. That is actually why campuses being places in which multiple, conflicting, and sometimes upsetting points of view can be explored is so important.
The question is: is this letter itself anti-Semitic or biased in a way that betrays anti-Semitism in all of its signers by definition?
To neither question is the answer “yes.”
I agree with you. I don’t think signers of the letter are all automatically anti-Semitic. I do think it’s possible some are, particularly with unconscious bias. And given the plausibility that the OP’s friend may or may not be in that category, it is reasonable that she and her husband now feel discomfort. At the very least, they feel that by signing this letter, the professor aligns with folks condoning the messages the students put out. Some of those messages were unquestionably anti-Semitic.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 15:32
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Other Columbia faculty wrote and signed a response letter to this one.
Also, it is amazing to me that people cannot see that the tone and perspective of the first letter has bias. Its main point isn’t about that, but its examples and support are presented as unbiased when they are, in fact, disputed by many.
I’m sorry so many are gaslighting OP and her husband. The signers of the letter have a particular view, which they take great pains not to say explicitly, but which they show through their sourcing.
As for how to proceed, I echo others and say pull back and do not engage right now.
Of course the letter has bias. So does the response you are describing. Bias existing is not in question. That is actually why campuses being places in which multiple, conflicting, and sometimes upsetting points of view can be explored is so important.
The question is: is this letter itself anti-Semitic or biased in a way that betrays anti-Semitism in all of its signers by definition?
To neither question is the answer “yes.”
Anonymous
11/05/2023 14:38
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:The best way to handle this:
You stand down. No engagement unless she reaches out. Then you suggest grabbing coffee…just the two of you.
Exchange pleasantries, etc. and eventually say, “Hey, I wanted to let you know that Dave saw the letter you signed since he’s an alum. Needless to say, it hurt him. And I’d be lying if I said it didn’t surprise me. I don’t want to get into a whole big thing, but I’m wondering if you feel comfortable talking about this? I’m curious what prompted you to sign it?”
Then be silent. Give her time to explain. Don’t interrupt. Just listen.
Discuss.
I suspect you two can salvage your friendship on some level assuming you want to.
But I don’t think you can vacation together with your husband, so gently flag that.
I wouldn't even ask what prompted your friend to sign the letter - what answer are you going to get that is going to help things?
Anonymous
11/05/2023 14:31
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Other Columbia faculty wrote and signed a response letter to this one.
Also, it is amazing to me that people cannot see that the tone and perspective of the first letter has bias. Its main point isn’t about that, but its examples and support are presented as unbiased when they are, in fact, disputed by many.
I’m sorry so many are gaslighting OP and her husband. The signers of the letter have a particular view, which they take great pains not to say explicitly, but which they show through their sourcing.
As for how to proceed, I echo others and say pull back and do not engage right now. [/quote)
First of all, no one here EVER said there was NO bias. Everything has some sort of bias in it- you’ve completely missed the point if you want everyone in the world to remain “unbiased”- especially in the face of genocide (you’re likely a genocide supporter, soooo…). What people ARE saying is nowhere in the letter does it support the killing of ANY innocent people, which some people here are trying to distort to fit their own agenda so they can continue to gaslight (your word) people who support Palestinian freedom and liberation. Anyone who has a problem with the letter is inherently anti Palestinian life and anti Palestinian freedom.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 13:40
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Other Columbia faculty wrote and signed a response letter to this one.
Also, it is amazing to me that people cannot see that the tone and perspective of the first letter has bias. Its main point isn’t about that, but its examples and support are presented as unbiased when they are, in fact, disputed by many.
I’m sorry so many are gaslighting OP and her husband. The signers of the letter have a particular view, which they take great pains not to say explicitly, but which they show through their sourcing.
As for how to proceed, I echo others and say pull back and do not engage right now.
Also, it is amazing to me that people cannot see that the tone and perspective of the first letter has bias. Its main point isn’t about that, but its examples and support are presented as unbiased when they are, in fact, disputed by many.
I’m sorry so many are gaslighting OP and her husband. The signers of the letter have a particular view, which they take great pains not to say explicitly, but which they show through their sourcing.
As for how to proceed, I echo others and say pull back and do not engage right now.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 13:02
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:She’s made her views known. Team DH. Just ghost and make an excuse to cancel for the joint vacation. No need to make it a big deal or confrontation, people ghost all the time.
+1
I'm not going to get into my thinking on this because I don't want to delve into the politics. But now that I've seen the letter, I would would find an excuse to politely cancel the vacation. I would NOT raise the letter with her; it will not end well. Just accept that those are her views (and I can guess why you are surprised) and be pleasant when you need to interact with her in the future regarding the kids. But that's it.
I'm sorry, OP.
FFS. Did you even read the letter? I can’t believe how stupid some of you are. I guess there is no freedom of speech now.
This! I read the letter twice because I thought I missed something.
Me too! Coming back to this convo after reading it has made me very confused. There was nothing in that letter supporting hamas or the killing of civilians. It said we should be able to safely talk about these complex issues especially on an academic campus without people being fearful of being doxxed etc.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 12:56
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Oh man. This is happening to me too. I’m totally fine with people wanting a ceasefire and being mad at Netanyahu - who sucks and I agree about ceasefire - but the folks who are insinuating that there’s any justification for killing civilians (on either side) or throwing around terms like ‘open air prison’ and suggesting the Israelis are white occupiers (they are the same color as Palestinians) I’m kind of done with. I would not be having a conversation. I just unfollowed and it’s done.
From my pov it’s very easy to support a 2 state solution, be anti killing civilians, be anti terrorist. Honestly anyone who has some other hot take pov I just want them to be quiet
It sounds like you didn’t read the letter. The letter is about free speech on campus and is not in any way justifying the killing of civilians. OPs response seems really over the top but everyone is allowed their opinion, sad they are willing to ruin a friendship with people they would vacation with over a friend supporting their academic institution protecting free speech
Anonymous
11/05/2023 12:38
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Telling you right now engaging her will not bring you any satisfaction
This. Nothing good will come of engaging, OP, you know this because others have tried. I know you want her to say some magic words that makes things go back to how they were but that is not reality. Engaging makes it less likely that you can be cordial at events involving the kids. Just politely distance.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 12:34
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No advice but I’m in the same boat. My SO’s best friend keeps posting telling Jews to “stop centering your trauma” and calling the victims of the Nova music festival legitimate targets because they are “settlers”. Sharing disinformation saying Hamas didn’t kill babies. I never want to speak to this person again but my SO wants to remain friends. Ugh.
Do you think if you/dh spoke with your friend and explained how hurtful her words and actions are she would respond reasonably?
I think she would probably say something like “I’m sorry you feel that way, of course I’m not antisemitic” and continue posting the same stuff about how Jews need to shut up. Other mutual friends have tried. I have tried to just get off social media and ignore but I can’t forget the things she’s already shared.
If others have tried, I think you know it's not an information issue, OP. So, decide accordingly. You have differing views on something very important to you.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 09:39
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
I hope the Columbia Professor has read this or will find out about it. Maybe she can turn it around and confront OP and her husband to clarify their “views” instead. The thing is, you never know who is reading this or who has connections to who.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 08:45
Subject: Re:How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
I wouldn’t discuss the letter with her at all unless you guys normally discuss politics (and in that case, you can have a discussion about what’s going on in Israel and Palestine, not a discussion about the letter per say).
I’m ok with my friends having different viewpoints and would still encourage my children to be friends with whomever they like. Vacationing together might be difficult though (more because your husband may not be able to tolerate it).
I’m ok with my friends having different viewpoints and would still encourage my children to be friends with whomever they like. Vacationing together might be difficult though (more because your husband may not be able to tolerate it).
Anonymous
11/05/2023 08:35
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Telling you right now engaging her will not bring you any satisfaction
I fully agree. Resist the urge, OP. It could get bad and would then interfere with the ability of your kids to be friends.
But do you want your kid to be friends with someone whose parent holds these views?
I would. I share those views. There’s nothing anti-Semitic about them.
That is your opinion. Others would disagree.
Do you see the irony in your post?
Totally not snarky, I honestly don’t.
Anonymous
11/05/2023 08:20
Subject: How to handle this difficult situation with a friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Telling you right now engaging her will not bring you any satisfaction
I fully agree. Resist the urge, OP. It could get bad and would then interfere with the ability of your kids to be friends.
But do you want your kid to be friends with someone whose parent holds these views?
I would. I share those views. There’s nothing anti-Semitic about them.
That is your opinion. Others would disagree.
Do you see the irony in your post?