How many books do you have in your home?

Start there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone previously hit the nail on the head when they talked about the move toward STEM as the be all and end all. Parents don’t want to pay for their kids to take arts and literature courses in college because those courses won’t get the kids well-paying jobs.

When all aspects of education are looked at through the lens of, “How does this enhance the ability to make a lot money?” then the arts and literature are left behind and seen as without value. Without a knowledge of and appreciation for the arts and literature, one can’t truly be a cultured person.

I read the college forum here regularly. People often post about the small liberal arts colleges and their value.

I did not grow up “cultured” and when I went to college my goal was to get a degree so that I could get a job. I was not really interested in learning for the sake of learning.

I thought the best thing I ever did for my DS was to send him to a small LAC and was quite happy to see his bookshelf lined with the classics.

He had the opportunity to learn for the sake of learning and it is obvious in his thinking, what he reads, etc.

I believe this type of education - whether self learned or through an institution is what is required to become educated and cultured.

And to obtain a low-paying job

Whoosh

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think your focus on NYC is a bit off. It really depends more on your social circles and what you're exposed to. Just stay away from Southern California.

Snoop Dog is clearly a celebrated intellectual today. And he is 100% legit SoCal.

Yeah!

Live in NYC
Attend charity events
Have a Hampton house
Have rich old money friends
Get a useless SLAC degree Amherst etc

My parents took me to museums and art galleries as a child, to the theatre and opera and ballet. They took me not because they wanted me cultured, but because they enjoyed these things and it was easy to take me along to them.

They also sent me to music school in NYC and on safaris in Africa when I was in my early teens.

They ran out of money eventually, but I definitely benefitted when they had it.

Here's my take and has worked well for our family (2 elementary kids) thus far. I want to raise intelligent, aware citizens of the world who care about humanity as a whole.

-We live in Chicago so we have access to Broadway, top notch art, science, and history museums, many smaller niche museums, etc.
-We participate in as many free things as we can- jazz fest, cultural center activities, public art programs, farmers markets.
-Our kids attend public school, but we world school on breaks and summer. We do home exchanges and have been all over the world. We swap houses with families for 2 weeks-3 months and have done things like care for farm animals, help at a vineyard in Italy, an orchard in Thailand, an off the grid bungalow in Chile. We've done cooking classes with amazing grandmas in Vietnam, Greece, and Iceland. We live like locals when we exchange and immerse ourselves in the language, lifestyle, food, local art/music/cultural scenes, and have made wonderful friends all over the world.
-We volunteer with refugees. Just a few weeks ago we worked with an Afghani family who invited us to stay for a meal. We had zero language in common as they do not speak any English and we only speak English fluently. The eldest son washed our hands before we ate a 6 course meal on their floor over 2.5 hours. They gave us so much more than we gave them that day and we all felt it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the New York Times every day, The Atlantic, and the New Yorker. You can add to that list but that would get you a long way.

only if you are a screaming liberal. No one I know does that anymore

Everyone I know does this.

-New Yorker

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP about 15 years ago the mark of what's considered cultured changed from a deep familiarity with 'old master' European works to a moderate knowledge of art from as many foreign cultures as possible. Having a deep knowledge of foreign films and foreign cuisines in particular are what culture snobs prize the most nowadays.

For films, the Criterion Collection is the gold standard for classic and modern classic selections, and they have a streaming service. With subtitles! You could pick one movie a month to watch with your son. Knowing the films of Wong Kar-Wai, Akira Kurosawa, Hou Hsiao-Hsien, Jean-Luc Godard, and Federico Fellini in particular are seen as a mark of being cultured.

For food, you want a working knowledge of cuisines from as many countries as possible. The more, and the more obscure, the better. But simply eating at a restaurant isn't enough nowadays. Knowing how to cook authentic cultural dishes is what people see as impressive, especially if the dish uses many different spices. Learning how to prepare one Vietnamese, Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Oaxacan, or Ethiopian dish a month could be a fun thing to do with your son.

Ironically, steeping your son in your cultural traditions from your home country would give him more 'cultural clout' in America than him knowing about old European stuff. He would be viewed as an 'authentic' cultural expert on your home country, which is seen as unique and interesting over here. People would want to get to know him to learn the 'insider' cultural experiences of your country, so THEY could be considered more cultured!

These are a heavy lift for a kid who whines about going to museums. Maybe start by teaching your kid not to talk during movies.

Totally disagree! Kurosawa's films in particular are what George Lucas based Star Wars on. A lot of them are fun action-adventure movies that a teen boy wouldn't object to streaming on the couch.

Anonymous wrote:Someone previously hit the nail on the head when they talked about the move toward STEM as the be all and end all. Parents don’t want to pay for their kids to take arts and literature courses in college because those courses won’t get the kids well-paying jobs.

When all aspects of education are looked at through the lens of, “How does this enhance the ability to make a lot money?” then the arts and literature are left behind and seen as without value. Without a knowledge of and appreciation for the arts and literature, one can’t truly be a cultured person.

I read the college forum here regularly. People often post about the small liberal arts colleges and their value.

I did not grow up “cultured” and when I went to college my goal was to get a degree so that I could get a job. I was not really interested in learning for the sake of learning.

I thought the best thing I ever did for my DS was to send him to a small LAC and was quite happy to see his bookshelf lined with the classics.

He had the opportunity to learn for the sake of learning and it is obvious in his thinking, what he reads, etc.

I believe this type of education - whether self learned or through an institution is what is required to become educated and cultured.

Anonymous wrote:I think your focus on NYC is a bit off. It really depends more on your social circles and what you're exposed to. Just stay away from Southern California.

Snoop Dog is clearly a celebrated intellectual today. And he is 100% legit SoCal.

Anonymous wrote:OP about 15 years ago the mark of what's considered cultured changed from a deep familiarity with 'old master' European works to a moderate knowledge of art from as many foreign cultures as possible. Having a deep knowledge of foreign films and foreign cuisines in particular are what culture snobs prize the most nowadays.

For films, the Criterion Collection is the gold standard for classic and modern classic selections, and they have a streaming service. With subtitles! You could pick one movie a month to watch with your son. Knowing the films of Wong Kar-Wai, Akira Kurosawa, Hou Hsiao-Hsien, Jean-Luc Godard, and Federico Fellini in particular are seen as a mark of being cultured.

For food, you want a working knowledge of cuisines from as many countries as possible. The more, and the more obscure, the better. But simply eating at a restaurant isn't enough nowadays. Knowing how to cook authentic cultural dishes is what people see as impressive, especially if the dish uses many different spices. Learning how to prepare one Vietnamese, Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Oaxacan, or Ethiopian dish a month could be a fun thing to do with your son.

Ironically, steeping your son in your cultural traditions from your home country would give him more 'cultural clout' in America than him knowing about old European stuff. He would be viewed as an 'authentic' cultural expert on your home country, which is seen as unique and interesting over here. People would want to get to know him to learn the 'insider' cultural experiences of your country, so THEY could be considered more cultured!

These are a heavy lift for a kid who whines about going to museums. Maybe start by teaching your kid not to talk during movies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the New York Times every day, The Atlantic, and the New Yorker. You can add to that list but that would get you a long way.

This is good advice. I grew up middle class and pretty broke in the Midwest. My parents longed for a different life and we got the Sunday NYT, the Atlantic and the New Yorker at home. This was back in the heyday of magazines so we also had stacks of fashion magazines and Vanity Fair. We also watched CBS Sunday Morning before church. That all gave me a glimpse into a different world and the ability to slip into college and my first job in NYC with a little bit of camouflage.

Nowadays culture is so driven by money that I would only bother because you want your kids to know and learn, not because you want to equip them to be part of certain worlds. Those worlds are mostly gone.

I don’t think being cultured will give my kid any tangible advantage, that’s for sure.
I value being a cultured person (in a broad sense, from music to current events) in and of itself and I just hope my son will also take pride in being well-read and all around knowledgeable one day.
-OP

OP, I’m legitimately inspired that you care.

I take a lot of pride in being well-read and all-around knowledgeable, but I’ll be the first to say that it’s an increasingly lonely or even scoffed-at effort. My child’s fancy private school is overrun by real estate investors and developers, tech execs, and other new millennium white collar jobs. I go to book clubs in the neighborhood and only 2-3 of us ever read the books. The parent pushback about teaching the basics of literature, arts and even history is constant. I grew up in an era and place when white collar=doctor and lawyer, and parents read books and multiple newspapers daily, and could help us with history and English homework. Now anyone who even has time to read a book is seen as antisocial or an underemployed slacker.

It makes me sad for where we’re at now.

Thank you so much for your kind words, PP!
How is it possible to be in a book club and not read the books? I mean, isn’t the whole point to discuss them?
Also, why do parents push back on literature and arts? I thought the whole point of being at a private school was to get some tried and true basics of humanities (since in public many things are too “progressive”, at least in the blue states).
I don’t know if you are open to it, but if you could find some emigres from the former USSR around you - many of them are quite cultured, though of course skewed towards certain things.
I generally share your sense of loneliness - I think with age I started to care about too many things in the world around me, and it’s hard to find people who not only know what I am talking about, but also don’t have extreme opinions or are at least capable of accepting the fact that someone has a different one.
With books and movies and shows it’s mostly that people don’t watch or read much, but with current events it’s mostly opinions.
-OP

OP, are you from the former USSR? If yes, I'll offer some cultural observations.

OP about 15 years ago the mark of what's considered cultured changed from a deep familiarity with 'old master' European works to a moderate knowledge of art from as many foreign cultures as possible. Having a deep knowledge of foreign films and foreign cuisines in particular are what culture snobs prize the most nowadays.

For films, the Criterion Collection is the gold standard for classic and modern classic selections, and they have a streaming service. With subtitles! You could pick one movie a month to watch with your son. Knowing the films of Wong Kar-Wai, Akira Kurosawa, Hou Hsiao-Hsien, Jean-Luc Godard, and Federico Fellini in particular are seen as a mark of being cultured.

For food, you want a working knowledge of cuisines from as many countries as possible. The more, and the more obscure, the better. But simply eating at a restaurant isn't enough nowadays. Knowing how to cook authentic cultural dishes is what people see as impressive, especially if the dish uses many different spices. Learning how to prepare one Vietnamese, Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Oaxacan, or Ethiopian dish a month could be a fun thing to do with your son.

Ironically, steeping your son in your cultural traditions from your home country would give him more 'cultural clout' in America than him knowing about old European stuff. He would be viewed as an 'authentic' cultural expert on your home country, which is seen as unique and interesting over here. People would want to get to know him to learn the 'insider' cultural experiences of your country, so THEY could be considered more cultured!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is interesting but I keep thinking it only talks about Western world art and music. Can art and music from Asia or South America be part of this discussion?

I love classical music and art and I try to expose my son between soccer practices and all the sports/ school/ play dates but it’s hard.

It’s hard enough to make sure my son and I are well versed in the Western arts world, so I am not looking as broadly just yet
-OP

OP, everything you post suggests that you’re looking for a social and leg up for your kid. That’s fine. There’s no need to say claim interested in “culture” for its own sake.

Hmm this is tough OP.

I played classical piano from a young age and my parents listened to opera. I remember being quite miserable through it all. However, I understand basics of periods and styles and my ear is quite good. I think my depth translates to being curious about other mediums - art, literature, poetry, dance, theater although my understanding isn’t vast. I’ve been called sophisticated and cultured by people who are very successful by most American accounts. One was British and painfully aware of class.

However. I am not raising my kids like this. We listen to pop and the art in my home consists of their drawings. I prefer nature over anything fancy. I still read and find culture everywhere - high brow or low brow, I’m mainly curious about other humans, what makes them tick, how they express themselves. Things my parents looked down upon I find fascinating and meaningful. I’ve lived abroad and made deep connections with people who were quite poor but wonderful humans. I try lots of food and cook and buy ethically most of the time but also pop in frozen pizzas and eat boxed mac n cheese.

In the end, I think what makes someone cultured is openmindedness, curiosity, a desire to grow and learn.