Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Learning Occam’s Razor did it for me.

Which is more likely: that thousands of men since the beginning of time have invented stories to prove that they should have all the money and power, that god wants them to rule, that anyone who disagrees with them is going to hell etc.

Or:

That almost all those guys are lying, but one guy is telling the truth about an invisible sky being who is real despite zero evidence suggesting that to be true?

I mean, throughout history we’ve seen obvious charlatans claim to be prophets sent by god. Why does anyone believe that 99.99999999% of them are lying, but one (or those of one religion out of thousands) is telling the truth?

Because that one guy wasn't in it for the money, died as a result of it, and his message makes sense in this complex world we live in (to me at least).

Great for you, sounds like you don't really need to be threadjacking this thread since it has nothing to do with that...

Learning Occam’s Razor did it for me.

Which is more likely: that thousands of men since the beginning of time have invented stories to prove that they should have all the money and power, that god wants them to rule, that anyone who disagrees with them is going to hell etc.

Or:

That almost all those guys are lying, but one guy is telling the truth about an invisible sky being who is real despite zero evidence suggesting that to be true?

I mean, throughout history we’ve seen obvious charlatans claim to be prophets sent by god. Why does anyone believe that 99.99999999% of them are lying, but one (or those of one religion out of thousands) is telling the truth?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm loving this thread. I don't think I'm quite an atheist, more like agnostic. Like others, I went through the motions for most of my life and managed to survive an upbringing in the evangelical purity culture.

I think I started to lose my faith in organized religion when my first son was born. I just couldn't believe that anyone would think something as vulnerable and innocent as a newborn could be inherently sinful.

The nail in the coffin I think would have to be several years later when he was old enough to go into children's church instead of the nursery. I wouldn't let them move him up because I didn't want them to tell him he was going to hell.

I knew then I had to either sh*t or get off the pot. I got off the pot and didn't go back.

I feel like I have my own honest connection with whatever the higher powers may be in this universe. I also think that not a single soul on this Earth knows or has ever known the true nature of God.

What church/denomination tells children in their children’s church that they are going to hell? Wouldn’t they tell them they are saved by Jesus, because He loves them?

How do you know not a single soul that has ever existed or exists on earth knows God?

DP, but I remember learning about hell in Lutheran Sunday School. Of course, the intended focus was heaven and salvation through Jesus, and it was taught like we were all saved and isn't it so great that we'll go to heaven, while other people will go to hell? But they certainly touched on hell as a topic in contrast to heaven. Kids pick up on the hell stuff pretty early.

*honest connection not honest comment

I was raised Roman Catholic. Nothing every bad really happened and there wasn't any big shining moment that made me stop believing, it was just seeing the hypocrisy of it all. Being against LGBQTA+, some of the women I knew were the most judgmental people I've ever met, just generally not nice people all hiding under this Catholic belief system. I really dislike the whole "pray for me" mentality. Like if your situation turns out ok its because people prayed for you and God found you worthy to spare. But the little kid down the street praying to God to have his dad stop beating them doesn't get spared. Did she not have enough people praying for her? Was she not worthy enough? The whole thing just puts me off so much.

Anonymous wrote:I was raised in the Presbyterian church and my grandfather was a minister. Honestly, I don't think I ever had faith. I went through the motions and did all the things that my parents required of me. I know all the songs, prayers, bible verses, etc. I just never remember being an actual believer.

There was a big drama in our church when I was in high school and that really made me take a hard look at organized religion. I think because of my childhood I have a hard time calling myself an atheist and am more comfortable saying I'm agnostic.

What happened at your church? Was it part of the Spotlight?

I'm loving this thread. I don't think I'm quite an atheist, more like agnostic. Like others, I went through the motions for most of my life and managed to survive an upbringing in the evangelical purity culture.

I think I started to lose my faith in organized religion when my first son was born. I just couldn't believe that anyone would think something as vulnerable and innocent as a newborn could be inherently sinful.

The nail in the coffin I think would have to be several years later when he was old enough to go into children's church instead of the nursery. I wouldn't let them move him up because I didn't want them to tell him he was going to hell.

I knew then I had to either sh*t or get off the pot. I got off the pot and didn't go back.

I feel like I have my own honest connection with whatever the higher powers may be in this universe. I also think that not a single soul on this Earth knows or has ever known the true nature of God.

3rd gen atheist here. I did go through a phase in college when I wondered what I was missing by not believing in any higher power. But no organized religion made sense (how could it since everyone is so insistent their religion is the “right” one? How can they be right and everyone else wring?)

Looking bad on the history of religion it seems to me it caused much more harm than good.

Peopled have asked me how I know right from wrong without a belief in God. I don’t know - I believe have strong beliefs in what is right and what is wrong and can’t see why I need a God to help me figure things out.

My husband is religious and he says it’s a source of comfort that I’m depriving our kids of. So I’ve agreed he can be in charge of their religious upbringing but I think at least 2 of 3 do not believe. I also don’t really get his perspective - other than a short bit in college when I was questioning I never missed not believing.

I asked my mom what god was, and she said something along the lines of god created life, is omnipotent, sees everything etc. This distrubed the 6 year old me immensely. I thought it was stupid that the creator of life would be seeing me poop. I just never shook that feeling off.

Raised Catholic, always struggled to believe, though I gave it a good go in my religion classes and at weekly mass. I used to pray a lot.

Then in college I took so many classes that had me questioning everything including the idea of souls. Pretty much came to the conclusion our "soul" is in our neurons.

Heaven never made any sense to me -- trillions of souls just hanging out, growing larger by the day, really? All the ideas of heaven I ever heard of sounded man-made. And frankly eternity used to scare the sht out of me - I'd like at night wondering, when does eternity ever end? Really frightening to think about that. And anyway if heaven is so awesome why can't we skip this earth part and just go there? What kind of sick god decides to create being and test them to see if they can get into paradise?

I got to a point where I was praying not to lose my faith. And it just never worked. I just couldn't believe. Especially a lot of the Christian stuff, such as the notion of a god deciding to have a son to "sacrifice" - that started to seem silly when I really thought about it. Maybe it worked in a different time period. But why in the world would an almighty god need to "sacrifice" a "son"? Weird.

And so I finally decided that was okay not to believe. I stopped going to church and stopped praying. And things have been alright.

I mean in some ways it would be really comforting to think there's an afterlife (except for that terrifying eternity part). Or some higher being out there who watches out and cares for all the trillions and trillions of humans who have ever existed. But it's not something I can believe. I guess I'm too logical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was raised in the 1960s and ‘70s by a Christian mother and Jewish father, both of whom were fairly religious. But they decided to raise my sister and me in both religions so that we could choose which we wanted as we grew older. However, both of us never became at all religious.

I guess I was always a skeptic. I remember as a little kid in Sunday school asking who invented God, and basically being told to be quiet. The older I got the less I wanted to believe in a god who let there be wars, starving babies, and other atrocities if he was all powerful. And if such a being existed, I did not want to praise or worship something that let terrible things happen.

so you live in a world of starving babies and wars, without a god.

Who do you blame for the starving babies and wars? This is not at all an argument or criticism of your beliefs. i promise. I am interested in who you blame for these terrible things?

DP I blame humans for those things.

I haven't lost my faith but it has transformed. I was raised Catholic and definitely have the fear of doing something wrong/guilt thing in me but I cannot reconcile that with a loving god or loving force. I’ve really come to the conclusion that some of us are more biologically wired for a belief in a higher power. To believe or feel that there is something greater than ourselves. I think humankind has tried to explain that or express that feeling through various religions AND human kind has also used religion to try to control people. All I know is that at different times of my life I have felt, truly felt that there was something greater and the feeling felt like the most calming, peaceful, love. I am also someone who can walk into a room and read it and figure out what’s going on without anyone uttering a word. I have a very strong sense of intuition and am extremely sensitive to my environment. Honestly, I think that has primed me to believe in god in a sense but also realize that much of the stories cannot be taken literally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is how it happened to me. I had always since young adulthood questioned how bad things happened to good people and good things happened to bad people. It’s everywhere. Then my mom got terminal cancer at 60. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks, God is not going to stop this wonderful, faithful woman from dying. Even as she was telling me he had a plan and things happen for a reason. And I just wanted to scream at her “This is not a plan and it’s not happening for some divine reason!!!” I didn’t say that of course.

I decided there were 3 possibilities:

1. God is not omnipotent.
2. God is omnipotent and is just an a-hole.
3. There is no God.

I’m not sure which of the above is true.

4. Your mom believed she was going to enjoy a great afterlife and that you would do well here on earth, and both of these things brought a lot of comfort to her (and might or might not be true).

No. Even if what you say is true then 1,2 or 3 also has to be true. 4 is not an alternative to those. God either couldn’t save her, chose not to save her, or isn’t real. Which do you think?

You're saying that death is the end, so that #4 is invalidated by 1, 2, or 3. PP's mom apparently didn't believe that. Take it up with pp's mom.

This thread is for non believers. Go make your own thread where you can discuss flowery reasons why God lets 2 year olds die of brain tumors and lets 10 year olds live with sexual abusers. Maybe he is real, I don’t know. But he sure isn’t very benevolent if he is.

+ 100. And why the god people believe in at the same time as he's letting that little girl I knew die horrifically slowly of a brain tumor also "blesses" someone with finding their true love, or getting the job they always dreamed of. Taking it a step further, I think it's a harmful worldview even if it only informs someone's attitude towards their life subtly enough that they just believe they are more deserving of god's blessing than the little girl in hospice. It doesn't help us evolve as a human race.

I was raised in the Presbyterian church and my grandfather was a minister. Honestly, I don't think I ever had faith. I went through the motions and did all the things that my parents required of me. I know all the songs, prayers, bible verses, etc. I just never remember being an actual believer.

There was a big drama in our church when I was in high school and that really made me take a hard look at organized religion. I think because of my childhood I have a hard time calling myself an atheist and am more comfortable saying I'm agnostic.

Anonymous wrote:NP: so why sacrifice a human (Christ)?
This is suffering.

I am not the np or pp but I don’t understand this post.