Anonymous
09/19/2023 14:51
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Hopkins has really focused on increasing diversity over the past 10 years and it has Bloomberg’s money to fund the financial aid to support this initiative. I started a thread about this a week or so go.
Emory takes a lot of kids through questbridge, and the income levels for that basically guarantee pell eligibility.
Emory takes a lot of kids through questbridge, and the income levels for that basically guarantee pell eligibility.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 14:50
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's brutal for Tulane, which relies so heavily on ED. Who's going to ED to #73?
Kids who are full pay and good but not great students. Tulane has always been a respectable school for kids coming out of private school who couldn't get into Ivy league schools, top Slacs, or even desirable flagships. It will still be that
Don't kid yourself. Those are *exactly* the kinds of kids/families who care about these nonsense rankings. Both the size of Tulane's ED pool and its quality will decline noticeably this year.
They are exactly the kinds of families who won’t be sending their kids to a state school. You really believe people will now be sending their kids to Rutgers and Merced because IS News decided to promote public schools this year?
Nice strawman. Not Rutgers or Merced, but BC, BU, even Lehigh or Santa Clara instead of ED'ing Tulane? Absolutely.
If Tulane were content being a strong safety school, this wouldn't be such a big deal, but Tulane has been trying for years to claw its way into the legit-first-choice tier (largely with strategic use of ED smoke and mirrors), and this ranking is devastating to that effort.
yep, but kids currently EDing Tulane at the top privates are sub 3.5. The kids EDing Boston College are 3.7+. Lehigh is similar to BC. These kids with higher stats aren't going away or magically going to turn their ED into Rice or Hopkins. If the Tulane crowd bumps up their ED choice to higher schools then they're only going to hurt themselves.
The kids ED'ing to Tulane aren't a monolith. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but will ED to BC or BU this year because of the USNWR rankings. There absolutely are kids who would prefer Vandy but would have taken a much-closer-to-sure-thing ED at Tulane last year but will take the shot with Vandy this year because they just can't stomach ED'ing to #73. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but this year will sit out the ED1 round and instead will EA to UGA and the like this year--and ED2 to Tulane only if they don't get an offer they like better in the EA round. And kids who will ED1 to Vandy/similar and EA to UGA/similar. Etc. It'll add up to a smaller, weaker ED pool for Tulane.
That makes no sense. Tulane will have the same as they had last year and you will be all salty. Lol
Anonymous
09/19/2023 14:37
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:I admitedly don’t have my head in the new rankings nor changes in the methodology. But I read Vanderbilt’s statement with interest. If what they say is correct as to why their rank dropped, why wouldn’t the same have occurred to countless other smaller private colleges like Johns Hopkins and Emory? All the privates didn’t drop in rank, correct?
Jhu gets lmc Asians —
Vandy doesnt
As evidenced by the massive boosts to Cali schools, if your school can find and enroll lmc gunner Asians en masse, it’s one of the easiest methods to maintain/sky rocket up the rankings
Even Emory gets more Asians than vandy so it’s hedged against downside ranking pressure
Anonymous
09/19/2023 14:33
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:All of these posters insisting that the huge drop that Wake, Wash U and Tulane had in the rankings isn’t going to turn off applicants are kidding themselves. It was their high rankings that led to so many applications in recent years in the first place. Get real.
Can anyone think of a precedent? Ideally with ballpark similar starting points and drops in ranking. Also, ideally not due to not sending data to USNWR.
I see strong opinions going both ways, so would be interesting to have some empirical evidence. I guess we're about to see, unless perhaps schools start adjusting admissions or whatever to improve.
The only school that I can remember plummeting like this is Oberlin and they seem to still be getting the kind of students that they've always gotten
They plummeted again this year.
What were they last year? It looks like they were about where they have always been. Then again, Oberlin has never been a great fit with USNWR because the Conservatory and College are ranked together, instead of separately. And Con kid aren’t getting in based on tests, are going into a stable (or well playing) job market… as a flute player. It’s just an apples school and and oranges school together. And they get some good synergy at times. But different applicant pools, different measures of what is a good education, different outcomes. Etc. I’ve never understood why the didn’t pull out like Reed a long time ago.
And yes PP, I know. THE BAKERY!!!!!!!!
Anonymous
09/19/2023 14:02
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's brutal for Tulane, which relies so heavily on ED. Who's going to ED to #73?
Kids who are full pay and good but not great students. Tulane has always been a respectable school for kids coming out of private school who couldn't get into Ivy league schools, top Slacs, or even desirable flagships. It will still be that
Don't kid yourself. Those are *exactly* the kinds of kids/families who care about these nonsense rankings. Both the size of Tulane's ED pool and its quality will decline noticeably this year.
They are exactly the kinds of families who won’t be sending their kids to a state school. You really believe people will now be sending their kids to Rutgers and Merced because IS News decided to promote public schools this year?
Nice strawman. Not Rutgers or Merced, but BC, BU, even Lehigh or Santa Clara instead of ED'ing Tulane? Absolutely.
If Tulane were content being a strong safety school, this wouldn't be such a big deal, but Tulane has been trying for years to claw its way into the legit-first-choice tier (largely with strategic use of ED smoke and mirrors), and this ranking is devastating to that effort.
yep, but kids currently EDing Tulane at the top privates are sub 3.5. The kids EDing Boston College are 3.7+. Lehigh is similar to BC. These kids with higher stats aren't going away or magically going to turn their ED into Rice or Hopkins. If the Tulane crowd bumps up their ED choice to higher schools then they're only going to hurt themselves.
The kids ED'ing to Tulane aren't a monolith. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but will ED to BC or BU this year because of the USNWR rankings. There absolutely are kids who would prefer Vandy but would have taken a much-closer-to-sure-thing ED at Tulane last year but will take the shot with Vandy this year because they just can't stomach ED'ing to #73. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but this year will sit out the ED1 round and instead will EA to UGA and the like this year--and ED2 to Tulane only if they don't get an offer they like better in the EA round. And kids who will ED1 to Vandy/similar and EA to UGA/similar. Etc. It'll add up to a smaller, weaker ED pool for Tulane.
It isn’t as if Tulane was T10 last year, it was somewhere in the mid 40s. I just don’t think the new ranking is going to change the perception. You can’t imagine anyone applying to Tulane to begin with, and clearly hate the school with a passion, so aren’t well positioned to see why others might chose it. And I have no dog in this fight, no one on my family attends or has attended Tulane.
+2 Some people on here HATE Tulane. Those of us who attended or have kids there understand the unique and amazing education the school provides. Tulane was hurt by the elimination of many factors in the USNWR algorithm, as were many private universities. It is still a great school and a fabulous education. Here is the statement from Tulane’s president about the rankings. https://news.tulane.edu/statements
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:59
Subject: Re:Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here’s the letter from Vanderbilt:
http://view.comms.vu.edu/?qs=ffde8b61400da34d1c6d4041de053bd1199e3e56308fe95b91f16c156d7184d115202fd1fada9f200c8be7e7476b059dfd6b2af5397cb3c830e7ab4fff9742383078f59133128165ba141edb0d8b5534
It lays out why the new rankings unfairly penalize smaller research universities, and why the methodology is so flawed. I’m not a Vandy alum, but I think this letter makes a lot of sense.
I think the letter is laughable. Who are we kidding? A school like Vanderbilt lamenting “privileged” big public schools?? Get real. UCLA and Berkeley ARE better.
Why ARE they better? Because US News declared them so this year?
+1. Better for what students and in which subjects? That's the trouble with US News. It tries to be a one-size-fits-all prestige meter.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:58
Subject: Re:Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes.
Wake is not really that popular in the first place anyways.
Quick Google says its acceptance rate was 25% in 2021 when it had only 5000+ students(probably little lower now)
Acceptance rate was around 20 percent in 2022 and below 20 percent this past year,
NE’s true acceptance rate looks to be around 25 percent. That’s based on the Bethesda Magazine data that looks at acceptances to all campuses/programs, not just the Boston start that NE publishes.
So Boston campus start was still extremely popular when it was only ranked in the mid to upper 40s.
Wake as a small/mid private T30 school was not popular. Looks like it's at the right place now.
Pretty sure any school in the T100 could become as popular as NE if they also offered an application with no supplemental essays and handed out large merit awards. Most schools don’t chose this route.
In any case, Wake had. been in the US News T30 for close to 30 years, it wasn’t gaming the rankings like Tulane and NE. It’s reputation is well established with employers and grad schools.
Speaking of reputation, here are some employer reputation references for Northeastern
STEM area:
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-engineering
https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/top-feeders-tech
One area Wake is relatively good is its business school. One of my kids was considering putting it at the bottom of about 14-16 college list for business major.
Even for that, Wake is not better than Northeastern.
https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/rankings/poetsquants-best-undergraduate-business-schools-of-2023/4/
Wake has been really over-ranked, and looks like justice is served.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:57
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:All of these posters insisting that the huge drop that Wake, Wash U and Tulane had in the rankings isn’t going to turn off applicants are kidding themselves. It was their high rankings that led to so many applications in recent years in the first place. Get real.
Can anyone think of a precedent? Ideally with ballpark similar starting points and drops in ranking. Also, ideally not due to not sending data to USNWR.
I see strong opinions going both ways, so would be interesting to have some empirical evidence. I guess we're about to see, unless perhaps schools start adjusting admissions or whatever to improve.
The only school that I can remember plummeting like this is Oberlin and they seem to still be getting the kind of students that they've always gotten
They plummeted again this year.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:56
Subject: Re:Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here’s the letter from Vanderbilt:
http://view.comms.vu.edu/?qs=ffde8b61400da34d1c6d4041de053bd1199e3e56308fe95b91f16c156d7184d115202fd1fada9f200c8be7e7476b059dfd6b2af5397cb3c830e7ab4fff9742383078f59133128165ba141edb0d8b5534
It lays out why the new rankings unfairly penalize smaller research universities, and why the methodology is so flawed. I’m not a Vandy alum, but I think this letter makes a lot of sense.
I think the letter is laughable. Who are we kidding? A school like Vanderbilt lamenting “privileged” big public schools?? Get real. UCLA and Berkeley ARE better.
Why ARE they better? Because US News declared them so this year?
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:49
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's brutal for Tulane, which relies so heavily on ED. Who's going to ED to #73?
Kids who are full pay and good but not great students. Tulane has always been a respectable school for kids coming out of private school who couldn't get into Ivy league schools, top Slacs, or even desirable flagships. It will still be that
Don't kid yourself. Those are *exactly* the kinds of kids/families who care about these nonsense rankings. Both the size of Tulane's ED pool and its quality will decline noticeably this year.
They are exactly the kinds of families who won’t be sending their kids to a state school. You really believe people will now be sending their kids to Rutgers and Merced because IS News decided to promote public schools this year?
Nice strawman. Not Rutgers or Merced, but BC, BU, even Lehigh or Santa Clara instead of ED'ing Tulane? Absolutely.
If Tulane were content being a strong safety school, this wouldn't be such a big deal, but Tulane has been trying for years to claw its way into the legit-first-choice tier (largely with strategic use of ED smoke and mirrors), and this ranking is devastating to that effort.
yep, but kids currently EDing Tulane at the top privates are sub 3.5. The kids EDing Boston College are 3.7+. Lehigh is similar to BC. These kids with higher stats aren't going away or magically going to turn their ED into Rice or Hopkins. If the Tulane crowd bumps up their ED choice to higher schools then they're only going to hurt themselves.
The kids ED'ing to Tulane aren't a monolith. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but will ED to BC or BU this year because of the USNWR rankings. There absolutely are kids who would prefer Vandy but would have taken a much-closer-to-sure-thing ED at Tulane last year but will take the shot with Vandy this year because they just can't stomach ED'ing to #73. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but this year will sit out the ED1 round and instead will EA to UGA and the like this year--and ED2 to Tulane only if they don't get an offer they like better in the EA round. And kids who will ED1 to Vandy/similar and EA to UGA/similar. Etc. It'll add up to a smaller, weaker ED pool for Tulane.
It isn’t as if Tulane was T10 last year, it was somewhere in the mid 40s. I just don’t think the new ranking is going to change the perception. You can’t imagine anyone applying to Tulane to begin with, and clearly hate the school with a passion, so aren’t well positioned to see why others might chose it. And I have no dog in this fight, no one on my family attends or has attended Tulane.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:31
Subject: Re:Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes.
Wake is not really that popular in the first place anyways.
Quick Google says its acceptance rate was 25% in 2021 when it had only 5000+ students(probably little lower now)
Acceptance rate was around 20 percent in 2022 and below 20 percent this past year,
NE’s true acceptance rate looks to be around 25 percent. That’s based on the Bethesda Magazine data that looks at acceptances to all campuses/programs, not just the Boston start that NE publishes.
So Boston campus start was still extremely popular when it was only ranked in the mid to upper 40s.
Wake as a small/mid private T30 school was not popular. Looks like it's at the right place now.
Pretty sure any school in the T100 could become as popular as NE if they also offered an application with no supplemental essays and handed out large merit awards. Most schools don’t chose this route.
In any case, Wake had. been in the US News T30 for close to 30 years, it wasn’t gaming the rankings like Tulane and NE. It’s reputation is well established with employers and grad schools.
In fact there a
Some comparison between Wake and Northeastern
Outcome - https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/
Northeastern: $89K
Wake: $82K
Retention - https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/freshmen-least-most-likely-return
Northeastern: 98%
Wake: 94%
Graduation rate - https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/GraduationRate6Year/
Northeastern: 91%
Wake: 90%
If Wake clime up the ranking in the future from current #47, that must be due to gaming?
Wake folks are really pathetic.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:30
Subject: Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's brutal for Tulane, which relies so heavily on ED. Who's going to ED to #73?
Kids who are full pay and good but not great students. Tulane has always been a respectable school for kids coming out of private school who couldn't get into Ivy league schools, top Slacs, or even desirable flagships. It will still be that
Don't kid yourself. Those are *exactly* the kinds of kids/families who care about these nonsense rankings. Both the size of Tulane's ED pool and its quality will decline noticeably this year.
They are exactly the kinds of families who won’t be sending their kids to a state school. You really believe people will now be sending their kids to Rutgers and Merced because IS News decided to promote public schools this year?
Nice strawman. Not Rutgers or Merced, but BC, BU, even Lehigh or Santa Clara instead of ED'ing Tulane? Absolutely.
If Tulane were content being a strong safety school, this wouldn't be such a big deal, but Tulane has been trying for years to claw its way into the legit-first-choice tier (largely with strategic use of ED smoke and mirrors), and this ranking is devastating to that effort.
yep, but kids currently EDing Tulane at the top privates are sub 3.5. The kids EDing Boston College are 3.7+. Lehigh is similar to BC. These kids with higher stats aren't going away or magically going to turn their ED into Rice or Hopkins. If the Tulane crowd bumps up their ED choice to higher schools then they're only going to hurt themselves.
The kids ED'ing to Tulane aren't a monolith. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but will ED to BC or BU this year because of the USNWR rankings. There absolutely are kids who would prefer Vandy but would have taken a much-closer-to-sure-thing ED at Tulane last year but will take the shot with Vandy this year because they just can't stomach ED'ing to #73. There absolutely are kids who would have ED'd to Tulane last year but this year will sit out the ED1 round and instead will EA to UGA and the like this year--and ED2 to Tulane only if they don't get an offer they like better in the EA round. And kids who will ED1 to Vandy/similar and EA to UGA/similar. Etc. It'll add up to a smaller, weaker ED pool for Tulane.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 13:15
Subject: Re:Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes.
Wake is not really that popular in the first place anyways.
Quick Google says its acceptance rate was 25% in 2021 when it had only 5000+ students(probably little lower now)
Acceptance rate was around 20 percent in 2022 and below 20 percent this past year,
NE’s true acceptance rate looks to be around 25 percent. That’s based on the Bethesda Magazine data that looks at acceptances to all campuses/programs, not just the Boston start that NE publishes.
So Boston campus start was still extremely popular when it was only ranked in the mid to upper 40s.
Wake as a small/mid private T30 school was not popular. Looks like it's at the right place now.
Pretty sure any school in the T100 could become as popular as NE if they also offered an application with no supplemental essays and handed out large merit awards. Most schools don’t chose this route.
In any case, Wake had. been in the US News T30 for close to 30 years, it wasn’t gaming the rankings like Tulane and NE. It’s reputation is well established with employers and grad schools.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 12:45
Subject: Re:Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes.
Wake is not really that popular in the first place anyways.
Quick Google says its acceptance rate was 25% in 2021 when it had only 5000+ students(probably little lower now)
Acceptance rate was around 20 percent in 2022 and below 20 percent this past year,
NE’s true acceptance rate looks to be around 25 percent. That’s based on the Bethesda Magazine data that looks at acceptances to all campuses/programs, not just the Boston start that NE publishes.
So Boston campus start was still extremely popular when it was only ranked in the mid to upper 40s.
Wake as a small/mid private T30 school was not popular. Looks like it's at the right place now.
Anonymous
09/19/2023 12:04
Subject: Re:Will schools like Wake and Tulane fall in popularity as they fell in rankings?
Anonymous wrote:Yes.
Wake is not really that popular in the first place anyways.
Quick Google says its acceptance rate was 25% in 2021 when it had only 5000+ students(probably little lower now)
Acceptance rate was around 20 percent in 2022 and below 20 percent this past year,
NE’s true acceptance rate looks to be around 25 percent. That’s based on the Bethesda Magazine data that looks at acceptances to all campuses/programs, not just the Boston start that NE publishes.