Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably the reason a mentally ill spouse does this is that they feel guilty they were such a pain to deal with or something when they finally come out of their irresponsibility. It's another reflection on themselves that they project to their partner.

In my experience and my observation of an extended family with unmanaged mental disorders: they do NOT feel shame or remorse or guilt. At all.

That’s a myth that that’s why they mistreat and abuse others close to them. From shame or guilt or awareness of their issues.

There is little awareness. By the time they are adults they have so many deeply ingrained maladaptive “coping mechanisms,” such as gaslighting, deflecting, making personal attacks, stonewalling, temper tantruming, they have convinced themselves that they are always right and those who inquire are always wrong and the bad guys.

There is no guilt. It’s black and white, you are wrong, they are never wrong. It’s your fault- even their rages, breaking things, tempers, it’s never their fault. You are nuts, so are your parents, they are not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you let Adhd person speak for themselves. They are blaming the people in their lives who have helped them and pointed out flaws so they didn’t have to experience hardship. That is a problem in of itself. If you can’t understand it just be glad you haven’t gone through life with a mentally ill spouse. People who try to help their mentally ill spouses are saints to me. I will stick up for them when someone says they were wrong to not just leave.

And I did give advice. I told them to live more simply and manage their own behavior accepting themselves and trying to grow. And to stop judging what others say and just using their words how best helps them. Not scapegoating or expecting everyone to just give you a pep talk when you made a big mistake that affected their lives.

I originally responded to a poster who said she wanted to help and I said that the best help is encouragement because people who struggle often ARE working incredibly hard.

You then continued to step on my initial point which is that a lot of help is Presley just overwhelmed. You haven’t listened to anything I’ve said and instead insisted that I’ve not done enough or done things in the right way.

What you are actually doing is trying to claim for yourself, the helper, the work that people who struggle have to put in. We are emotional burn victims and the pain doesn’t got away, it takes time, trial and error to figure what is our unique strategy for managing.

Yes, we can behave badly at times. That’s on us. You communicate that and you choose is to either leave or be patient. Your choice. But you can’t fix us, we fix ourselves. In the way that works for us. Maybe it’s good enough for you, maybe it isn’t.

That's ridiculous. You are not an island. People have the right to call out bad behavior and have the right to try to help their spouse. No good spouse would not help their spouse if they had cancer waiting until they helped themselves on this. No good spouse would just leave for one offense. Also people don't just get better on their own. They often need help. It doesn't work that way.

You need to forgive those who "overwhelmed" you and tried to help you. They were just caring about you.

Again, you are projecting your own story and assumptions onto me. I’ve never blamed anyone. Only I am stating that the care I was offered didn’t translate into the help I needed.

In my case, the care and help was actually enabling and overwhelming. It was very well-intended and offered in love, but it wasn’t what I needed. And therefore, I had to detach from those relationships. Including my marriage.

I’m sorry for the situation that you are in that is causing you to push back on me so hard.

Anonymous wrote:The adhd person is probably right that these people weren't helpful to them at that time. I don't think that's wrong for them to believe this if they are improving themselves now and weren't then. It's the blame of their help that is at issue. You can find something unhelpful and also understand that someone is coming from a place of caring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This statement from you. They are still helping. It's just not helping you at that time. Just because it didn't help you at that time, doesn't mean they weren't helping through their own actions. It may have been misguided but this is how they tried to help you.

"At some point, you are not helping you are trying to control another person with your expectations. Or you are enabling that person to expect support when they need to experience the consequences and pain in order to actually learn for themselves."

Is this about a gold star? You need acknowledgement for your “help”?

Which is exactly the point I made earlier…people are mostly “helping” in order to make themselves feel better rather than actually offering the person what they need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This statement from you. They are still helping. It's just not helping you at that time. Just because it didn't help you at that time, doesn't mean they weren't helping through their own actions. It may have been misguided but this is how they tried to help you.

"At some point, you are not helping you are trying to control another person with your expectations. Or you are enabling that person to expect support when they need to experience the consequences and pain in order to actually learn for themselves."

Is this about a gold star? You need acknowledgement for your “help”?

Which is exactly the point I made earlier…people are mostly “helping” in order to make themselves feel better rather than actually offering the person what they need.

Anonymous wrote:The adhd person is probably right that these people weren't helpful to them at that time. I don't think that's wrong for them to believe this if they are improving themselves now and weren't then. It's the blame of their help that is at issue. You can find something unhelpful and also understand that someone is coming from a place of caring.

Anonymous wrote:
This statement from you. They are still helping. It's just not helping you at that time. Just because it didn't help you at that time, doesn't mean they weren't helping through their own actions. It may have been misguided but this is how they tried to help you.

"At some point, you are not helping you are trying to control another person with your expectations. Or you are enabling that person to expect support when they need to experience the consequences and pain in order to actually learn for themselves."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t you let Adhd person speak for themselves. They are blaming the people in their lives who have helped them and pointed out flaws so they didn’t have to experience hardship. That is a problem in of itself. If you can’t understand it just be glad you haven’t gone through life with a mentally ill spouse. People who try to help their mentally ill spouses are saints to me. I will stick up for them when someone says they were wrong to not just leave.

And I did give advice. I told them to live more simply and manage their own behavior accepting themselves and trying to grow. And to stop judging what others say and just using their words how best helps them. Not scapegoating or expecting everyone to just give you a pep talk when you made a big mistake that affected their lives.

I originally responded to a poster who said she wanted to help and I said that the best help is encouragement because people who struggle often ARE working incredibly hard.

You then continued to step on my initial point which is that a lot of help is Presley just overwhelmed. You haven’t listened to anything I’ve said and instead insisted that I’ve not done enough or done things in the right way.

What you are actually doing is trying to claim for yourself, the helper, the work that people who struggle have to put in. We are emotional burn victims and the pain doesn’t got away, it takes time, trial and error to figure what is our unique strategy for managing.

Yes, we can behave badly at times. That’s on us. You communicate that and you choose is to either leave or be patient. Your choice. But you can’t fix us, we fix ourselves. In the way that works for us. Maybe it’s good enough for you, maybe it isn’t.

That's ridiculous. You are not an island. People have the right to call out bad behavior and have the right to try to help their spouse. No good spouse would not help their spouse if they had cancer waiting until they helped themselves on this. No good spouse would just leave for one offense. Also people don't just get better on their own. They often need help. It doesn't work that way.

You need to forgive those who "overwhelmed" you and tried to help you. They were just caring about you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably the reason a mentally ill spouse does this is that they feel guilty they were such a pain to deal with or something when they finally come out of their irresponsibility. It's another reflection on themselves that they project to their partner.

In my experience and my observation of an extended family with unmanaged mental disorders: they do NOT feel shame or remorse or guilt. At all.

That’s a myth that that’s why they mistreat and abuse others close to them. From shame or guilt or awareness of their issues.

There is little awareness. By the time they are adults they have so many deeply ingrained maladaptive “coping mechanisms,” such as gaslighting, deflecting, making personal attacks, stonewalling, temper tantruming, they have convinced themselves that they are always right and those who inquire are always wrong and the bad guys.

There is no guilt. It’s black and white, you are wrong, they are never wrong. It’s your fault- even their rages, breaking things, tempers, it’s never their fault. You are nuts, so are your parents, they are not.

I was speaking to the ADHD person who is saying that the people who tried to help them were actually hurting them, and they should have just left them alone. It's a complete Un acknowledgement of spouses of the mentally ill as individuals with their own strengths and own agenda to live the life they want to live and likely agreed to. Finally, that person said they realized the help was from the spouse's perspective, but it's like he/she makes it about being selfish rather than helping. Yes, it is from their perspective because it's from them and they are individuals, not mirrors of what you want. Yes, it is actual helping. That's where the disconnect is. Just because it doesn't feel good to the mentally ill spouse or actually help them, doesn't make it "wrong" or "selfish". It's for each person to accept feedback and then make the best use for themselves. Labeling helpers are hurters is a defense mechanism.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably the reason a mentally ill spouse does this is that they feel guilty they were such a pain to deal with or something when they finally come out of their irresponsibility. It's another reflection on themselves that they project to their partner.

In my experience and my observation of an extended family with unmanaged mental disorders: they do NOT feel shame or remorse or guilt. At all.

That’s a myth that that’s why they mistreat and abuse others close to them. From shame or guilt or awareness of their issues.

There is little awareness. By the time they are adults they have so many deeply ingrained maladaptive “coping mechanisms,” such as gaslighting, deflecting, making personal attacks, stonewalling, temper tantruming, they have convinced themselves that they are always right and those who inquire are always wrong and the bad guys.

There is no guilt. It’s black and white, you are wrong, they are never wrong. It’s your fault- even their rages, breaking things, tempers, it’s never their fault. You are nuts, so are your parents, they are not.