I did not fully understand the demands of parenting before having kids. I have been very disappointed that my husband has not stepped up to be my partner in parenting. I had very severe PPD and was on my own. My own father struggled to hold down a job, divorced my mom and abandoned us so my idea of vetting and what to look for in a partner for me was a bit skewed. My husband is at least responsible financially, around, and not abusive. So, I do try to be thankful for that.

Most women I know are the main parents. It is very frustrating. There are a few dads in my kid's class who arrange the play dates, volunteer, do pick up and drop off, plan summer camps, but not many. The divorced moms have to do the logistics for 2 households and argue with their ex about it on top of that, so there's no winning. Or not do it and their kids miss everything - birthday parties, field trips, camps, doctors appointments...etc.

I was talking about this unequal sharing of parenting responsibilities with a mom friend and she told me about her mom going out for the day when she was a kid and leaving her and her siblings with their father. He didn't feed them, even though they told him they were hungry. He did make himself a sandwich though. I don't doubt the truthfulness of the pps story about the kids not having any dinner.

Monday night football *

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are some books I recommend

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-Parrott-III/dp/0842337938/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=1345802795429998&hvadid=84112745564949&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=91813&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-84113015467361%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=22564_10446056&keywords=books+for+control+freaks&qid=1692876157&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Losing-Control-Finding-Serenity-Hurts/dp/0982893000

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-practice-allowing-co-creating/dp/1925900916

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Out-Your-Own-Self-Defeating/dp/0399519904/ref=asc_df_0399519904?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539280274815&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138866828654&psc=1

Also so you don't totally mess up your kids:

https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Failure-Parents-Children-Succeed/dp/0062299255

https://www.amazon.com/Blessing-Minus-Teachings-Resilient-Teenagers/dp/1416542043

https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

So if you fail to make dinner for your kids, that's the gift of failure? Come on. Maybe you need to read some books on basic tasks of adulthood so that you can be an adequate parent.

It's amazing to me that you thought those books were about your H. Try again.

It's amazing that you think slacking on your chores will teach your children anything but how to be a loser.

It’s amazing to me that self righteousness people like you exist. It’s not slacking it’s just different.

My kids are very successful thanks! And they have a great relationship with their very involved dad because I didn’t criticize his every move.

Yes sometime that meant kids went to school tired due to land at night football. BFD. I’m sure you’d lose your mind over that.

Anonymous wrote:I agree that the post upthread that talked about how pregnancy makes women dial it in was insightful. There's no comparable experience for men in the lead-up to parenthood. When men think about what being a father will involve, they tend to focus on (and freak out about) the mechanical aspects of it: how to change a diaper, how to hold the baby, etc. But things like that are easy, and after you do them a few times they become second nature. What's hard is changing your mindset: realizing that kids need stability and routine, realizing that certain things just need to be done, realizing that your life isn't about you anymore, learning to live more in the present and find satisfaction in small things. And there aren't a lot of resources to help men do this, nor does society tell them that it's something they need to do.

To be clear, I still think it's each individual man's responsibility to get his head in the game. Some men do it, so more ought to be able to. But there could be more of an effort made to give men the tools that they need to make the same mindset transition that women are able make thanks to biology.

The thing is that I have seen men who make that transition and do what many women do by shifting their mindset in the way you mention, to prioritize the children and find pleasure and satisfaction in giving the kids what they need. But I'm not sure why some men do and others don't. I don't know what the magic sauce is there.

I have a husband who did not do this, and is maybe only now starting to (our child is in early elementary). It's been a tough road. And even now, his instinct is generally to make choices that satisfy his needs and only his needs, often completely disregarding how they will impact our kid (and me). From little things like demanding a certain restaurant for dinner on vacation even though our kid won't be able to eat anything there, to big things like wanting to live in a neighborhood with terrible schools because it's easier for his commute. I spend a lot of time going to bat with my own husband on behalf of our kid, and it's especially frustrating because if DH is advocating for himself and only himself, and I'm advocating for our kid, this means that often my preferences go wholly ignored by everyone, including me. It is a hard way to live and all I can say is that at least it's a little better than it was a few years ago.

But I know men who aren't like this, who take their kids into account in everything they do and prioritize them. I'm not in those marriages so I can't tell you whether their wives feel like these men are equal partners, but I can tell you that when I talk to them, they talk about their kids the way I think about my own kid, and not as an afterthought or even a competitor for resources, which is how my own DH often views our child.

And I don't know why. I would not have predicted this when I married my DH. The men who seem very invested, I would not have known they'd be like that before they had kids. Maybe there's some obvious tell I missed (and am still missing) but to me it was a surprise (and major disappointment) to discover that my DH could not/would not make that mental adjustment to thinking in terms of a family unit instead of just himself. And if you are wondering, yes he wanted kids and was enthusiastic about having them.

Anonymous wrote:Someone needs to be the primary. There is a reason you don't see Co-CEOs. Not everything can be equally shared. Doesn't matter which parent does it, but things move more smoothly when one is the lead.

The 1950s called...

My DH works substantially more hours that me (I'm part time, WFH), and his job is also significantly more mentally draining. I'd say I do 80-90% of the big household management stuff (scheduling, forms, sign ups, activities, dr/dentist appts, stocking the house, managing household help...). I'd also say I do like 70% of the daily "childcare" stuff like drop offs, pick ups, carpools, dinner, homework, bedtimes. I am NOT complaining -- it's perfectly fair and efficient given our differing professional demands.

There are a few tasks in both categories that are on his plate, and he does those things 100% his way. But when he steps in to help out with all the things that I normally do or that I have put in the behind the scenes leg work for, he basically does them my way, because that just makes sense -- it keeps everyone happy, including him! It's really not some big complicated thing about control or that he is incompetent or would do the bare minimum or something. It's just that the person in charge of X has already made the decision. (FWIW, we are both pretty laid back and never had super rigid routines with our kids.) For his items, I do them his way if I step in.

I can't imagine being married to someone that would purposefully not feed our children while I was out with the expectation that I would do it instead when I came home. But that is a totally different thread, really.

I agree that the post upthread that talked about how pregnancy makes women dial it in was insightful. There's no comparable experience for men in the lead-up to parenthood. When men think about what being a father will involve, they tend to focus on (and freak out about) the mechanical aspects of it: how to change a diaper, how to hold the baby, etc. But things like that are easy, and after you do them a few times they become second nature. What's hard is changing your mindset: realizing that kids need stability and routine, realizing that certain things just need to be done, realizing that your life isn't about you anymore, learning to live more in the present and find satisfaction in small things. And there aren't a lot of resources to help men do this, nor does society tell them that it's something they need to do.

To be clear, I still think it's each individual man's responsibility to get his head in the game. Some men do it, so more ought to be able to. But there could be more of an effort made to give men the tools that they need to make the same mindset transition that women are able make thanks to biology.

I think it's true that having a lazy, incompetent loser for a dad can cultivate a certain type of resilience in the children. But that's not what the whole "blessings of a skinned knee" deal is about-- that's about children losing from their *own* failures, not their parents' failures. Try to keep up, betas!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are some books I recommend

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-Parrott-III/dp/0842337938/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=1345802795429998&hvadid=84112745564949&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=91813&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-84113015467361%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=22564_10446056&keywords=books+for+control+freaks&qid=1692876157&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Losing-Control-Finding-Serenity-Hurts/dp/0982893000

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-practice-allowing-co-creating/dp/1925900916

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Out-Your-Own-Self-Defeating/dp/0399519904/ref=asc_df_0399519904?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539280274815&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138866828654&psc=1

Also so you don't totally mess up your kids:

https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Failure-Parents-Children-Succeed/dp/0062299255

https://www.amazon.com/Blessing-Minus-Teachings-Resilient-Teenagers/dp/1416542043

https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

So if you fail to make dinner for your kids, that's the gift of failure? Come on. Maybe you need to read some books on basic tasks of adulthood so that you can be an adequate parent.

It's amazing to me that you thought those books were about your H. Try again.

PP clearly didn't think that. She's accusing you of conflating bear minimum competency with being a "control freak."

The unreliability, rage, and wild accusations over minor questions and co-management of the household is why your wife doesn't respect you, and your children don't either. Try growing up a bit, managing your emotions, and being someone your family can count on. Nobody's saying you have to be perfect or allow yourself to be micromanaged. But you do have to be an adult about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are some books I recommend

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-Parrott-III/dp/0842337938/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=1345802795429998&hvadid=84112745564949&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=91813&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-84113015467361%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=22564_10446056&keywords=books+for+control+freaks&qid=1692876157&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Losing-Control-Finding-Serenity-Hurts/dp/0982893000

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-practice-allowing-co-creating/dp/1925900916

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Out-Your-Own-Self-Defeating/dp/0399519904/ref=asc_df_0399519904?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539280274815&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138866828654&psc=1

Also so you don't totally mess up your kids:

https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Failure-Parents-Children-Succeed/dp/0062299255

https://www.amazon.com/Blessing-Minus-Teachings-Resilient-Teenagers/dp/1416542043

https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

So if you fail to make dinner for your kids, that's the gift of failure? Come on. Maybe you need to read some books on basic tasks of adulthood so that you can be an adequate parent.

It's amazing to me that you thought those books were about your H. Try again.

It's amazing that you think slacking on your chores will teach your children anything but how to be a loser.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are some books I recommend

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-Parrott-III/dp/0842337938/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=1345802795429998&hvadid=84112745564949&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=91813&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-84113015467361%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=22564_10446056&keywords=books+for+control+freaks&qid=1692876157&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Losing-Control-Finding-Serenity-Hurts/dp/0982893000

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-practice-allowing-co-creating/dp/1925900916

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Out-Your-Own-Self-Defeating/dp/0399519904/ref=asc_df_0399519904?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539280274815&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138866828654&psc=1

Also so you don't totally mess up your kids:

https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Failure-Parents-Children-Succeed/dp/0062299255

https://www.amazon.com/Blessing-Minus-Teachings-Resilient-Teenagers/dp/1416542043

https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

So if you fail to make dinner for your kids, that's the gift of failure? Come on. Maybe you need to read some books on basic tasks of adulthood so that you can be an adequate parent.

It's amazing to me that you thought those books were about your H. Try again.

Anonymous wrote:Here are some books I recommend

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-Parrott-III/dp/0842337938/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=1345802795429998&hvadid=84112745564949&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=91813&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-84113015467361%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=22564_10446056&keywords=books+for+control+freaks&qid=1692876157&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Losing-Control-Finding-Serenity-Hurts/dp/0982893000

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Freak-practice-allowing-co-creating/dp/1925900916

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Out-Your-Own-Self-Defeating/dp/0399519904/ref=asc_df_0399519904?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80539280274815&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138866828654&psc=1

Also so you don't totally mess up your kids:

https://www.amazon.com/Gift-Failure-Parents-Children-Succeed/dp/0062299255

https://www.amazon.com/Blessing-Minus-Teachings-Resilient-Teenagers/dp/1416542043

https://www.amazon.com/Mindset-Psychology-Carol-S-Dweck/dp/0345472322

So if you fail to make dinner for your kids, that's the gift of failure? Come on. Maybe you need to read some books on basic tasks of adulthood so that you can be an adequate parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Men who pretend they can’t handle kids are playing you. In our relationship due to my job, my husband handles all aspects of child rearing. Just because someone is a man doesn’t mean they can raise a kid. The person who married the guy who waits for them to come home at 9pm is married to an a-hole and I’d leave that marriage asap.

So that you can split custody with him where he will continue to shirk parenting duties only the consequences for your kids will be much worse? Or so he can torpedo his relationship with your kids, which will have serious repercussions for them as adults? This is why many women stay in marriages with men you are terrible partners but aren't abusive.

I don't think anyone here is saying that men can't handle kids. But the PP who talked about "playing chicken" with parenting was spot on. Men play a game of chicken with their partners regarding parenting duties, and women are far less willing to play that game when it comes to the well-being of their kids. I think it's several factors. Women tend to develop stronger bonds with children earlier in life because of pregnancy and sometimes breastfeeding, and that makes them less willing to neglect their kids in the hopes their partner will pick up the slack. There are also social consequences for women who push back on parenting duties that don't exist for men. To use the example from this thread, a woman who chose not to feed her kids dinner until 9 or 10 at night would probably get CPS called on her (or the threat would be there). But in this thread you can see what the consequences are for a man who does this -- his wife gets blamed, or he gets defended as simply "doing it differently." For a mom, that's neglect. For a dad, it's okay.

Women are truly in a bind on this. If they divorce, they hurt their kids. If they stay and play chicken, they hurt their kids AND risk social/legal repercussions. But if they stay and just go ahead and do 80% of the parenting, they're a "control freak."

You can't win, so you just figure out which of these terrible options is most palatable. For me, and a lot of women, it's to accept that people will accuse me of being controlling because at least in that scenario, my kids get what they need.

Well, this type of guy probably doesn’t actually want 50-50 custody …

DH: Hey, are you busy right now?
Me: Yes, just filling out the allergy forms for school
DH: Oh- do you want me to do that?
Me: Are you just going to ask me the answer to every questions on here anyway?
DH: Silence.....contemplating.....laughs and leaves me alone