Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

This.

The Ivies have become a little expensive country club for wealthy folks, so many other better options in Canada, Europe and right here.

Curious as to which schools in Canada and Europe you think are "better options" than Ivy League schools. TIA

I cannot think of a single university in Canada that is better than any single Ivy League school.

Europe would be Cambridge & Oxford maybe, but which other schools ?

Which schools do you think are better options in the US ? (The obvious ones are Chicago, Northwestern, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Caltech, maybe Williams College, maybe Swarthmore College, but others would depend upon specific majors.)

Look up the Top 30 in the Shanghai rating and do a simple ROI taking into account total costs. I suspect most of the resulting better options will be non-Ivy and non-US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

This.

The Ivies have become a little expensive country club for wealthy folks, so many other better options in Canada, Europe and right here.

Curious as to which schools in Canada and Europe you think are "better options" than Ivy League schools. TIA

I cannot think of a single university in Canada that is better than any single Ivy League school.

Europe would be Cambridge & Oxford maybe, but which other schools ?

Which schools do you think are better options in the US ? (The obvious ones are Chicago, Northwestern, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Caltech, maybe Williams College, maybe Swarthmore College, but others would depend upon specific majors.)

Honestly, an 8 v 8 for ivies vs top non-ivies probably favors the non-ivy group. Stanford MIT Duke Caltech goes very well against Harvard Princeton Yale UPenn.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

This.

The Ivies have become a little expensive country club for wealthy folks, so many other better options in Canada, Europe and right here.

Curious as to which schools in Canada and Europe you think are "better options" than Ivy League schools. TIA

I cannot think of a single university in Canada that is better than any single Ivy League school.

Europe would be Cambridge & Oxford maybe, but which other schools ?

Which schools do you think are better options in the US ? (The obvious ones are Chicago, Northwestern, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Caltech, maybe Williams College, maybe Swarthmore College, but others would depend upon specific majors.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone says “Ivy” they don’t literally mean exactly the 8 ivy schools. Most people don’t really know all 8 and just use the word as a proxy for a top school. They’re generally also thinking of Stanford, MIT, Duke, Caltech, etc.

Honey, no one thinks of Duke when they think Ivy League.

I thought Duke was an ivy for a long time growing up, same with Stanford.

Duke and Stanford are better than the Ivies for med & science but they are not part of the self-appointed East Coast country club elite.

Yes, when people think of country club schools and elitist school, they never think of Duke or Stanford. Sure

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

Are they? The most competitive employers still heavily ivy grads and ivy grads are over represented in top ranked graduate programs

Majority of top 10 schools on USNWR are not ivy

New ravnkings come out in a month or so we will see if all 8 ivys are still T20. But regardless pp is correct, the ivys being the be all end allvdoes not exist anymore. Ask students trying to land investment banking . NYU, Georgetown and the like weren't always T10 for best placement.
https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

Did you read the list? The top school is an ivy and 6 of the 8 ivies are listed as top targets. For a list based on volume, it's pretty impressive that they are outcompeting other schools 10x their size

Obviously, you're purposefully missing the point. There are now several schools that are equal to an Ivy when it comes to placement. Who would have thought 20 years ago Georgetown would have just as good IF not better placement than Harvard for Investment banking. Same could could said for Emory when compared to Brown. All of these schools are now elite tier.

The list is by volume. Do you want number of undergraduates at the schools listed? They ivies are still punching well above their weight

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone says “Ivy” they don’t literally mean exactly the 8 ivy schools. Most people don’t really know all 8 and just use the word as a proxy for a top school. They’re generally also thinking of Stanford, MIT, Duke, Caltech, etc.

Honey, no one thinks of Duke when they think Ivy League.

I thought Duke was an ivy for a long time growing up, same with Stanford.

Duke and Stanford are better than the Ivies for med & science but they are not part of the self-appointed East Coast country club elite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When someone says “Ivy” they don’t literally mean exactly the 8 ivy schools. Most people don’t really know all 8 and just use the word as a proxy for a top school. They’re generally also thinking of Stanford, MIT, Duke, Caltech, etc.

Honey, no one thinks of Duke when they think Ivy League.

I thought Duke was an ivy for a long time growing up, same with Stanford.

Anonymous wrote:When someone says “Ivy” they don’t literally mean exactly the 8 ivy schools. Most people don’t really know all 8 and just use the word as a proxy for a top school. They’re generally also thinking of Stanford, MIT, Duke, Caltech, etc.

Honey, no one thinks of Duke when they think Ivy League.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

Are they? The most competitive employers still heavily ivy grads and ivy grads are over represented in top ranked graduate programs

Majority of top 10 schools on USNWR are not ivy

New ravnkings come out in a month or so we will see if all 8 ivys are still T20. But regardless pp is correct, the ivys being the be all end allvdoes not exist anymore. Ask students trying to land investment banking . NYU, Georgetown and the like weren't always T10 for best placement.
https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

Did you read the list? The top school is an ivy and 6 of the 8 ivies are listed as top targets. For a list based on volume, it's pretty impressive that they are outcompeting other schools 10x their size

Obviously, you're purposefully missing the point. There are now several schools that are equal to an Ivy when it comes to placement. Who would have thought 20 years ago Georgetown would have just as good IF not better placement than Harvard for Investment banking. Same could could said for Emory when compared to Brown. All of these schools are now elite tier.

Firms prefer the second tier now because they perform the same but not as cocky.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

Are they? The most competitive employers still heavily ivy grads and ivy grads are over represented in top ranked graduate programs

Majority of top 10 schools on USNWR are not ivy

New ravnkings come out in a month or so we will see if all 8 ivys are still T20. But regardless pp is correct, the ivys being the be all end allvdoes not exist anymore. Ask students trying to land investment banking . NYU, Georgetown and the like weren't always T10 for best placement.
https://www.peakframeworks.com/post/ib-target-schools

Did you read the list? The top school is an ivy and 6 of the 8 ivies are listed as top targets. For a list based on volume, it's pretty impressive that they are outcompeting other schools 10x their size

Obviously, you're purposefully missing the point. There are now several schools that are equal to an Ivy when it comes to placement. Who would have thought 20 years ago Georgetown would have just as good IF not better placement than Harvard for Investment banking. Same could could said for Emory when compared to Brown. All of these schools are now elite tier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

Are they? The most competitive employers still heavily ivy grads and ivy grads are over represented in top ranked graduate programs

Majority of top 10 schools on USNWR are not ivy

4 out of 10 and 2 out of the top 3 being ivy doesn't seem top be making the point you want to make.

Top 3 vary substantially year to year.

The fact is that most top schools are not ivy.

Half of the ivy league is top 10, a quarter are top 3. Only in DCUM land would that mean the ivy league isn't prestigious anymore

Was the bottom half ever prestigious?

. No, there were not anywhere near prestigious in my day, admittedly a long time ago. Dartmouth really was like Animal House, and schools like Amherst and Wellesley were considered to be quite a bit better.

Dartmouth was sought after school for affluent families going back to the late 19th century. To be a Dartmouth man meant something. It didn't emerge from nowhere. Brown had a solid reputation and an old history. Cornell and Penn were known for graduate programs. But it was also a different world altogether with a very different understanding of colleges and their roles. By the 1930s the Ivies were coalescing into broadly recognized as the elite colleges for America's elite. If anything, I'd suggest the elite LACs have lost ground in the race for elitism.

^ People though Williams was in the Ivy League, and nobody every heard of Cornell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A simple explanation is that the ivies are losing their edge, and that there are lots of good schools these days.

Are they? The most competitive employers still heavily ivy grads and ivy grads are over represented in top ranked graduate programs

Majority of top 10 schools on USNWR are not ivy

4 out of 10 and 2 out of the top 3 being ivy doesn't seem top be making the point you want to make.

Top 3 vary substantially year to year.

The fact is that most top schools are not ivy.

Half of the ivy league is top 10, a quarter are top 3. Only in DCUM land would that mean the ivy league isn't prestigious anymore

Was the bottom half ever prestigious?

. No, there were not anywhere near prestigious in my day, admittedly a long time ago. Dartmouth really was like Animal House, and schools like Amherst and Wellesley were considered to be quite a bit better.

Anonymous wrote:When someone says “Ivy” they don’t literally mean exactly the 8 ivy schools. Most people don’t really know all 8 and just use the word as a proxy for a top school. They’re generally also thinking of Stanford, MIT, Duke, Caltech, etc.

Huh? I do literally mean the eight schools.

My kids went to one of the lower tier Ivies and it was great. The schools are a good size, not too big or small, and my kids went to one that really focuses on undergraduate education rather than graduate schools. Excellent resources and great professors. In terms of recruitment, I personally think too many Ivy kids go into investment banking, consulting, and tech, but kids who took other paths seemed to do quite well too.