Big 3, 3.7 GPA, 35 ACT, unhooked white male, accepted ED at WUSTL. Strong ECs but nothing national level. Full pay. The vast majority of T15 admits in the class were hooked (except for Chicago).

Anonymous wrote:Our Big 3 did not get rid of APs, as they had planned. I think having APs actually hurts the kids. For example, the science AP my DD took did not stick to the AP curriculum and went deeper and wider. They did not practice the actual AP questions (which is what is done in public schools starting very early in the school year). As a result, it is hard to do well on the AP tests. Then those AP scores get compared to AP scores of public school kids who started drilling for those AP tests early on. And the comparison is not in the Big 3 kids favor. Having APs only hurts the kids if teachers do not stick to the AP curriculum.

+1000. Several teachers at our Big 3 were openly contemptuous of the AP system and would refuse to align their courses with the curriculum (let alone use a couple of weeks to prep).

Anonymous wrote:Why is it so hard to grasp that colleges do not compare the gpas of one high school to the next. Each are looked at on their own. And yes the colleges know or at least think they know the rigor of most high schools. Certainly the ones they regularly admit.

25 years ago, during the last round of AA litigation, Michigan just had a number they added to each high school’s GPA to make them all roughly comparable. The private schools got bumps (“more rigorous”), and so did the urban and rural schools (“less grade inflation”). The suburban publics didn’t get bumps because they set the standard.

Anyway it’s not hard to imagine that someone tweaked the numbers in the computer. Or switched out the old formulas for a fancy new algorithm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:re the Big 3 /State school debate..Our Big 3 college counselor admitted to us that this year was really bad for us at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big state schools) partially due to the common app and the deluge of applications , grad deflation and "a changing landscape". We did not have a ton of kids get into some of the popular state schools. Case in point a kid at our school got into an Ivy and was rejected at Michigan and Wisconsin. That's just one anecdote but there were a lot of similar examples.

I think the Big 3 are arrogant to cling to the assumption that the schools ALL know how "rigorous" they are. Also, it was a huge mistake to get rid of AP's. I think colleges do not have the time or energy to parse out the difference between upper level classes at Sidwell or Gds vs AP English at Wilson. This is a mistake that our kids are paying for in this new landscape.

It isn't arrogance, it is fact, the schools have regional representatives who actually know the high schools in their regions. I think the issue is that when schools like Michigan and Wisconsin had 50,000 applications for 10,000 acceptances and 8,000 matriculations, it was a lot easier to simply take 15-25 kids from schools like Sidwell, but now that they have closer to 100,000 applications for the same number of slots, they have to be more judicious.

Maybe the regional reps know the school but who is doing the first read of applications? Is it some part-time temporary reader?

And you think there is no coordination?

Why is it so hard to grasp that colleges do not compare the gpas of one high school to the next. Each are looked at on their own. And yes the colleges know or at least think they know the rigor of most high schools. Certainly the ones they regularly admit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:re the Big 3 /State school debate..Our Big 3 college counselor admitted to us that this year was really bad for us at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big state schools) partially due to the common app and the deluge of applications , grad deflation and "a changing landscape". We did not have a ton of kids get into some of the popular state schools. Case in point a kid at our school got into an Ivy and was rejected at Michigan and Wisconsin. That's just one anecdote but there were a lot of similar examples.

I think the Big 3 are arrogant to cling to the assumption that the schools ALL know how "rigorous" they are. Also, it was a huge mistake to get rid of AP's. I think colleges do not have the time or energy to parse out the difference between upper level classes at Sidwell or Gds vs AP English at Wilson. This is a mistake that our kids are paying for in this new landscape.

It isn't arrogance, it is fact, the schools have regional representatives who actually know the high schools in their regions. I think the issue is that when schools like Michigan and Wisconsin had 50,000 applications for 10,000 acceptances and 8,000 matriculations, it was a lot easier to simply take 15-25 kids from schools like Sidwell, but now that they have closer to 100,000 applications for the same number of slots, they have to be more judicious.

Maybe the regional reps know the school but who is doing the first read of applications? Is it some part-time temporary reader?

Anonymous wrote:re the Big 3 /State school debate..Our Big 3 college counselor admitted to us that this year was really bad for us at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big state schools) partially due to the common app and the deluge of applications , grad deflation and "a changing landscape". We did not have a ton of kids get into some of the popular state schools. Case in point a kid at our school got into an Ivy and was rejected at Michigan and Wisconsin. That's just one anecdote but there were a lot of similar examples.

I think the Big 3 are arrogant to cling to the assumption that the schools ALL know how "rigorous" they are. Also, it was a huge mistake to get rid of AP's. I think colleges do not have the time or energy to parse out the difference between upper level classes at Sidwell or Gds vs AP English at Wilson. This is a mistake that our kids are paying for in this new landscape.

It isn't arrogance, it is fact, the schools have regional representatives who actually know the high schools in their regions. I think the issue is that when schools like Michigan and Wisconsin had 50,000 applications for 10,000 acceptances and 8,000 matriculations, it was a lot easier to simply take 15-25 kids from schools like Sidwell, but now that they have closer to 100,000 applications for the same number of slots, they have to be more judicious.

Sounds like a teacher problem if that person won’t bother teaching AP test materials. It doesn’t have to dominate the class all year, but a week or two of practice would help the students.

Anonymous wrote:Our Big 3 did not get rid of APs, as they had planned. I think having APs actually hurts the kids. For example, the science AP my DD took did not stick to the AP curriculum and went deeper and wider. They did not practice the actual AP questions (which is what is done in public schools starting very early in the school year). As a result, it is hard to do well on the AP tests. Then those AP scores get compared to AP scores of public school kids who started drilling for those AP tests early on. And the comparison is not in the Big 3 kids favor. Having APs only hurts the kids if teachers do not stick to the AP curriculum.

Your post is a bit confusing. Are you saying they did not get rid of the AP Tests, but they essentially said we are no longer teaching according to the AP curriculum?

Seems odd that the school didn't take 2 weeks out of the school year at the end of April to just focus on review for the AP test.

Our Big 3 did not get rid of APs, as they had planned. I think having APs actually hurts the kids. For example, the science AP my DD took did not stick to the AP curriculum and went deeper and wider. They did not practice the actual AP questions (which is what is done in public schools starting very early in the school year). As a result, it is hard to do well on the AP tests. Then those AP scores get compared to AP scores of public school kids who started drilling for those AP tests early on. And the comparison is not in the Big 3 kids favor. Having APs only hurts the kids if teachers do not stick to the AP curriculum.

Does anyone know if the DC privates are considering reinstating APs?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:re the Big 3 /State school debate..Our Big 3 college counselor admitted to us that this year was really bad for us at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big state schools) partially due to the common app and the deluge of applications , grad deflation and "a changing landscape". We did not have a ton of kids get into some of the popular state schools. Case in point a kid at our school got into an Ivy and was rejected at Michigan and Wisconsin. That's just one anecdote but there were a lot of similar examples.

I think the Big 3 are arrogant to cling to the assumption that the schools ALL know how "rigorous" they are. Also, it was a huge mistake to get rid of AP's. I think colleges do not have the time or energy to parse out the difference between upper level classes at Sidwell or Gds vs AP English at Wilson. This is a mistake that our kids are paying for in this new landscape.

+100

Getting rid of APs isn’t a problem. Schools like Trinity, Collegiate, Brearley, etc. haven’t offered AP classes in years. Those schools still send 30-40% of their graduates to the Ivy League.

https://www.trinityschoolnyc.org/list-detail?pk=48902

That’s because those schools are better known nationwide than DC privates. And they probably have more serious donors.

None of those schools are better known than Sidwell…because of Obama and Clinton. However, they may have more serious donors and they dropped APs years before the DC privates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:re the Big 3 /State school debate..Our Big 3 college counselor admitted to us that this year was really bad for us at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big state schools) partially due to the common app and the deluge of applications , grad deflation and "a changing landscape". We did not have a ton of kids get into some of the popular state schools. Case in point a kid at our school got into an Ivy and was rejected at Michigan and Wisconsin. That's just one anecdote but there were a lot of similar examples.

I think the Big 3 are arrogant to cling to the assumption that the schools ALL know how "rigorous" they are. Also, it was a huge mistake to get rid of AP's. I think colleges do not have the time or energy to parse out the difference between upper level classes at Sidwell or Gds vs AP English at Wilson. This is a mistake that our kids are paying for in this new landscape.

+100

Getting rid of APs isn’t a problem. Schools like Trinity, Collegiate, Brearley, etc. haven’t offered AP classes in years. Those schools still send 30-40% of their graduates to the Ivy League.

https://www.trinityschoolnyc.org/list-detail?pk=48902

That’s because those schools are better known nationwide than DC privates. And they probably have more serious donors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:re the Big 3 /State school debate..Our Big 3 college counselor admitted to us that this year was really bad for us at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big state schools) partially due to the common app and the deluge of applications , grad deflation and "a changing landscape". We did not have a ton of kids get into some of the popular state schools. Case in point a kid at our school got into an Ivy and was rejected at Michigan and Wisconsin. That's just one anecdote but there were a lot of similar examples.

I think the Big 3 are arrogant to cling to the assumption that the schools ALL know how "rigorous" they are. Also, it was a huge mistake to get rid of AP's. I think colleges do not have the time or energy to parse out the difference between upper level classes at Sidwell or Gds vs AP English at Wilson. This is a mistake that our kids are paying for in this new landscape.

+100

Getting rid of APs isn’t a problem. Schools like Trinity, Collegiate, Brearley, etc. haven’t offered AP classes in years. Those schools still send 30-40% of their graduates to the Ivy League.

https://www.trinityschoolnyc.org/list-detail?pk=48902

Anonymous wrote:re the Big 3 /State school debate..Our Big 3 college counselor admitted to us that this year was really bad for us at Michigan and Wisconsin (and other big state schools) partially due to the common app and the deluge of applications , grad deflation and "a changing landscape". We did not have a ton of kids get into some of the popular state schools. Case in point a kid at our school got into an Ivy and was rejected at Michigan and Wisconsin. That's just one anecdote but there were a lot of similar examples.

I think the Big 3 are arrogant to cling to the assumption that the schools ALL know how "rigorous" they are. Also, it was a huge mistake to get rid of AP's. I think colleges do not have the time or energy to parse out the difference between upper level classes at Sidwell or Gds vs AP English at Wilson. This is a mistake that our kids are paying for in this new landscape.

I won't argue against any of your points, however, I think there are some additional components to the new landscape that play a part.

First, I think there a pushback on children of privilege having a leg up in education and in admissions. It has become more the forefront in recent years that long term parental educational investments in their children are a huge advantage and coming from a Big 3 amplifies that. Of course, colleges still want to please legacy and VIPs - but the non-URM/non-LGBTQ kids at Big 3 schools saw a huge shift in ED/EA/RD outcomes in 2023 compared to 2022. Schools like Tulane (who were huge in the practice of taking a huge number via ED applicants with $$) explicitly came out and said in ED1 that they were shifting gears (too bad they didn't tell applicants before they chose to ED1 at Tulane!!).

I think that in the "big picture", this is a positive shift, but it's not so great to be in the mix right as this shift is happening.

I also think that recent test-optional shifts as a result COVID, that led to huge jumps in applications and a resulting "ratchet-down a level" in expectations of where a Big 3 may get admitted, has led to a big jump in applications to places like Wisconsin that would not have normally seen as many Big 3 kids. Maybe they are less familiar and are still learning about these schools (maybe they don't have resources or desire to do so). Or maybe the higher GPA kids (who now saw a school like WI as a target) that applied in the past, didn't enroll and WI hasn't adjusted yet.

Things are very much in flux....hope it settles down for the 2024 folks.