Anonymous
06/05/2023 13:36
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.
Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.
That doesn’t pay off loans.
Funny, you’d never say the same thing to an unemployed med school grad.
What med school grad is unemployed?
Those who don’t get matched into residency. Around 7% of med school graduates do not get matched. So they leave med school with $300K+ in debt and no prospects to pay it off.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/health/medical-school-residency-doctors.html
This^ and more go through several cycles of applying while while working minimally paying non-physician jobs.
Nonsense. The only US med school grads who don’t match are ones who didn’t match their qualifications to their specialty choice and programs they ranked. There are more residency spots than US graduates. If you didn’t manage to graduate from a US school, well then…you maybe shouldn’t have started the process in the first place.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 13:27
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Paying 300k for HBS networking is crazy. I get much better networking for much less on the golf course where important people spend most of their time.
They did a survey of HBS alumni and I was surprised to see that the network was not one of the top two or three most valuable degree aspects. The #1 was the sense of how other people perceive how impressive a degree is from there. Personally, I have been in many rooms with colleagues from multiple schools. Nobody for a minute that the HBS graduate is smarter than everyone else in the room.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 13:10
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Paying 300k for HBS networking is crazy. I get much better networking for much less on the golf course where important people spend most of their time.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 12:54
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Won't most go back to the jobs they came from?
I'm adjacent to this world but not in it so might be a little off, but here's what I have been hearing. HBS lets in a ton of kids (HLS does too) compared to other top business schools, even more than Wharton which is huge and pulls significantly from the Penn med and law schools, among other dual degree candidates. You'll see a lot of underemployed HLS grads compared to some of the more practical T10s because of this; they are letting in a lot of kids from alternative tracks. Those kids can get a mediocre position at a reputable place in a bull market, but they'll struggle in this market.
But does this actually matter? The brilliant ones (whether academically, attractiveness or charisma) are fine, the top jobs are still there for them, and the other people are rich, so they will do great. However, the people who thought they could 'make it' without actually being brilliant or rich? Reality is here for them. If you don't have 'it,' you're not going to 'make it' in the sense that climbers want.
Are we referring to 26 year olds as “kids” now?
Well if they stay on mom's health insurance until they are kicked off at 26...yeah, kids.
Yes. My 29 year old nephew who lives in upper east side rental in Manhattan with roommates, does not own car, does not own a place, does not have a girlfriend still goes to dive bars and still shows up at family weddings with gift as mommy puts from family and does not send out holiday cars as mommy puts and family is a “child”
At 39 when married, his own house, 2-3 kids, owning two cars, hosting Thanksgiving etc., giving his own check at weddings mailing out own holiday card etc. he will be an adult.
I mean right now at 29 if laid off he sublets his apt share and moves home with mommy and daddy. 30 is fast approaching and who knows when he stops being a kid
Anonymous
06/05/2023 11:34
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Are we sad that they aren't going to be as rich as they planned on being?
Anonymous
06/05/2023 11:30
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Won't most go back to the jobs they came from?
I'm adjacent to this world but not in it so might be a little off, but here's what I have been hearing. HBS lets in a ton of kids (HLS does too) compared to other top business schools, even more than Wharton which is huge and pulls significantly from the Penn med and law schools, among other dual degree candidates. You'll see a lot of underemployed HLS grads compared to some of the more practical T10s because of this; they are letting in a lot of kids from alternative tracks. Those kids can get a mediocre position at a reputable place in a bull market, but they'll struggle in this market.
But does this actually matter? The brilliant ones (whether academically, attractiveness or charisma) are fine, the top jobs are still there for them, and the other people are rich, so they will do great. However, the people who thought they could 'make it' without actually being brilliant or rich? Reality is here for them. If you don't have 'it,' you're not going to 'make it' in the sense that climbers want.
Are we referring to 26 year olds as “kids” now?
Well if they stay on mom's health insurance until they are kicked off at 26...yeah, kids.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 10:02
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Waaah poor MBAs. Maybe they can go do something useful to society instead of money-grubbing profiteering.
The student loans these folks are taking out are brutal. It would keep me up at night not knowing I don’t have a job lined up. They are supposed to be celebrating at graduation and half the class is an anxious mess, especially the foreign students.
TBF, this happened to those graduating in 2008-2009 and during the Dot Com bust. But tuition is so much higher these days for an elite Ivy MBA.
And 2010! I graduated in 2010 from Dartmouth and it was a hot mess. I couldn’t get interviews for entry level jobs 30 minutes outside of Boston. Everyone was hiring grad students for those jobs.
I have a good friend who graduated with me in 2010 and is graduating with an MBA from Duke this year and I feel so bad for her. I’m having PTSD on her behalf.
Why would she go to fuqua as a Dartmouth ug alum?
It’s not worth it outside of m7
Wants to settle down in the southeast?
Take another bite at the banking apple??
She was an international student and the startup she worked for after graduation in 2010 went under, so she ended up spending the next decade (before B school) work in a variety of jobs in South America and Europe. Her work track record is confusing to say the least (7 months doing transfer pricing, 1 year working at a law firm, 1 year trying to get her knitting startup off the ground, 1 year working in IR at a pulp and paper company, 1 year trying to airbnb every high end apartment in Mexico City...). She got a green card in 2019 so she and her husband moved back to the US, but she couldn't find a job because of her constant job/industry hopping...She was lucky to get into Fuqua - she got in off the waitlist.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 09:46
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Won't most go back to the jobs they came from?
I'm adjacent to this world but not in it so might be a little off, but here's what I have been hearing. HBS lets in a ton of kids (HLS does too) compared to other top business schools, even more than Wharton which is huge and pulls significantly from the Penn med and law schools, among other dual degree candidates. You'll see a lot of underemployed HLS grads compared to some of the more practical T10s because of this; they are letting in a lot of kids from alternative tracks. Those kids can get a mediocre position at a reputable place in a bull market, but they'll struggle in this market.
But does this actually matter? The brilliant ones (whether academically, attractiveness or charisma) are fine, the top jobs are still there for them, and the other people are rich, so they will do great. However, the people who thought they could 'make it' without actually being brilliant or rich? Reality is here for them. If you don't have 'it,' you're not going to 'make it' in the sense that climbers want.
Are we referring to 26 year olds as “kids” now?
Not the PP you are responding to. I'm 35 and I consider 26 year olds to be kids. Gen Z is full of entitled, coddled kids. I work at a FAANG and my intern has already requested that I connect them with every intern in the bank prior to their first day. It's Gen Z's world. We're just living in it.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 09:42
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Won't most go back to the jobs they came from?
I'm adjacent to this world but not in it so might be a little off, but here's what I have been hearing. HBS lets in a ton of kids (HLS does too) compared to other top business schools, even more than Wharton which is huge and pulls significantly from the Penn med and law schools, among other dual degree candidates. You'll see a lot of underemployed HLS grads compared to some of the more practical T10s because of this; they are letting in a lot of kids from alternative tracks. Those kids can get a mediocre position at a reputable place in a bull market, but they'll struggle in this market.
But does this actually matter? The brilliant ones (whether academically, attractiveness or charisma) are fine, the top jobs are still there for them, and the other people are rich, so they will do great. However, the people who thought they could 'make it' without actually being brilliant or rich? Reality is here for them. If you don't have 'it,' you're not going to 'make it' in the sense that climbers want.
But this has always been the case. A good friend went from UMD --> Deloitte Accounting --> Deloitte Consulting (hard jump to make) --> Columbia business school and wanted to do IBD or PE but got stuck consulting for IBM. Maybe slightly better off than just staying a Deloitte and not spending $$ in CBS. Friend was first-gen and is a nice person but definitely no "it" factor. You either have the talent and charisma or you don't. I bull market won't change everyone's prospects, it will just make it easier for average admits to get jobs.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 09:39
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Won't most go back to the jobs they came from?
I'm adjacent to this world but not in it so might be a little off, but here's what I have been hearing. HBS lets in a ton of kids (HLS does too) compared to other top business schools, even more than Wharton which is huge and pulls significantly from the Penn med and law schools, among other dual degree candidates. You'll see a lot of underemployed HLS grads compared to some of the more practical T10s because of this; they are letting in a lot of kids from alternative tracks. Those kids can get a mediocre position at a reputable place in a bull market, but they'll struggle in this market.
But does this actually matter? The brilliant ones (whether academically, attractiveness or charisma) are fine, the top jobs are still there for them, and the other people are rich, so they will do great. However, the people who thought they could 'make it' without actually being brilliant or rich? Reality is here for them. If you don't have 'it,' you're not going to 'make it' in the sense that climbers want.
Are we referring to 26 year olds as “kids” now?
Anonymous
06/05/2023 09:39
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-01/harvard-mba-grads-anxiously-navigate-a-tepid-job-market?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY4NTcxMDIxNCwiZXhwIjoxNjg2MzE1MDE0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSVkszNjhUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCOThERTQ5MjNGMkI0QUY0QUFENTdDMzYyRjRGMjYwMiJ9.crDFnb2SEP3EwxzYbxhqEFL-x62PyOPDJIw-8Mbj3U8" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-01/harvard-mba-grads-anxiously-navigate-a-tepid-job-market?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY4NTcxMDIxNCwiZXhwIjoxNjg2MzE1MDE0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSVkszNjhUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCOThERTQ5MjNGMkI0QUY0QUFENTdDMzYyRjRGMjYwMiJ9.crDFnb2SEP3EwxzYbxhqEFL-x62PyOPDJIw-8Mbj3U8
Bloomberg
“As much as half of grads class of 2023 without jobs”
“Worst hiring environment since 2009”
If it’s like this for hbs, the entire mba market is f’ed
I went to a top 10 MBA program and my school is not having this problem. Everyone knows that HBS grads don't have any practical experience and can't do the job. That's why you rarely see them in the wild.
No, that’s not what’s going on.
HBS grads already did banking or consulting and then went to the buyside or tech.
Buyside and sr tech hires with a 1-3 month lead time, not internship programs or 12 month cycles. They may have to wait out things until their relationships lift the hiring freezes
I work in tech and no one is lifting the hiring freeze the year. We are backfilling jobs, but we are not creating new jobs. Tech, generally speaking, is not a super safe place to be - or at least it doesn't feel like that every time I scan my LinkedIn and see more people getting laid off.
I have also noticed more layoffs in tech.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 09:37
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-01/harvard-mba-grads-anxiously-navigate-a-tepid-job-market?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY4NTcxMDIxNCwiZXhwIjoxNjg2MzE1MDE0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSVkszNjhUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCOThERTQ5MjNGMkI0QUY0QUFENTdDMzYyRjRGMjYwMiJ9.crDFnb2SEP3EwxzYbxhqEFL-x62PyOPDJIw-8Mbj3U8" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-01/harvard-mba-grads-anxiously-navigate-a-tepid-job-market?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY4NTcxMDIxNCwiZXhwIjoxNjg2MzE1MDE0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSVkszNjhUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCOThERTQ5MjNGMkI0QUY0QUFENTdDMzYyRjRGMjYwMiJ9.crDFnb2SEP3EwxzYbxhqEFL-x62PyOPDJIw-8Mbj3U8
Bloomberg
“As much as half of grads class of 2023 without jobs”
“Worst hiring environment since 2009”
If it’s like this for hbs, the entire mba market is f’ed
I went to a top 10 MBA program and my school is not having this problem. Everyone knows that HBS grads don't have any practical experience and can't do the job. That's why you rarely see them in the wild.
No, that’s not what’s going on.
HBS grads already did banking or consulting and then went to the buyside or tech.
Buyside and sr tech hires with a 1-3 month lead time, not internship programs or 12 month cycles. They may have to wait out things until their relationships lift the hiring freezes
I work in tech and no one is lifting the hiring freeze the year. We are backfilling jobs, but we are not creating new jobs. Tech, generally speaking, is not a super safe place to be - or at least it doesn't feel like that every time I scan my LinkedIn and see more people getting laid off.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 08:57
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Won't most go back to the jobs they came from?
I'm adjacent to this world but not in it so might be a little off, but here's what I have been hearing. HBS lets in a ton of kids (HLS does too) compared to other top business schools, even more than Wharton which is huge and pulls significantly from the Penn med and law schools, among other dual degree candidates. You'll see a lot of underemployed HLS grads compared to some of the more practical T10s because of this; they are letting in a lot of kids from alternative tracks. Those kids can get a mediocre position at a reputable place in a bull market, but they'll struggle in this market.
But does this actually matter? The brilliant ones (whether academically, attractiveness or charisma) are fine, the top jobs are still there for them, and the other people are rich, so they will do great. However, the people who thought they could 'make it' without actually being brilliant or rich? Reality is here for them. If you don't have 'it,' you're not going to 'make it' in the sense that climbers want.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 08:14
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Won't most go back to the jobs they came from?
Anonymous
06/05/2023 08:10
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.
Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.
Right??! It’s so rich (ha) to expect us to feel sorry that these kids training to be capitalist masters now face the downside of the free market. Like literally, zero sympathy. Particularly to the PE choads whose entire business model is to take over companies, strip the equity, and fire people. Nope, not even getting my tiny violin out for these baby vultures.
If your kid took out $300k in student loans for an HBS MBA, and was promised the world in return, you’d have sympathy.
No one at a top 6 b school is taking out $300k of loans.
Non traditional students or URMs get massive aid, and the “traditional” students came from Ku strive industries during a bull market, plus they all I bc eat their income and bonuses and knew they were volatile bonuses.
It’s also common knowledge that you can take out large govt Grad Plus loans, day trade it all 4 semesters, never accrue interest or have to make a payment until a couple months after you graduate, then graduate and pay the entire principle off and keep the returns.
Grad Plus loans accrue interest while you’re in school, and they go straight to the school’s bursar’s office to cover tuition.