Anonymous wrote:This is such an important topic to shine a light on.
We are in our late 60s and hope we respect our kids and their full lives when the time comes. We have friends with early onset dementia and their entire universe is preoccupied with their safety because they won’t budge. Agitation and stubbornness is part of this disease.
I would hire a GOOD social worker and/or lawyer to intervene.

If you were the child or parent?

This is such an important topic to shine a light on.
We are in our late 60s and hope we respect our kids and their full lives when the time comes. We have friends with early onset dementia and their entire universe is preoccupied with their safety because they won’t budge. Agitation and stubbornness is part of this disease.
I would hire a GOOD social worker and/or lawyer to intervene.

Anonymous wrote:You sound more smug than sad...and no sign of love at all.

You blame so much of their current situation on them. A stroke? Incontinence?

Listen, they have never been old before. Nor have you. It is scary and your dad was hoping he could handle it as he has other life challenges. You did not WIN because he seems to have made bad choices. Stop being so resentful, and self righteous. Give empathy a try.

+1 What a truly depressing thread.

I'm also confused how if they refused to move they lost $1m? If they didn't sell it, they still have the asset. Did the house depreciate $1m?!?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where is the sister who lives with them in all of this?

OP, I stopped worrying about my parents after they gave my brain-dead sister POA, etc. They were of reasonably sound mind when paperwork was executed. When I first saw the documentation I expressed my strong view of their choices. Then I dropped it. Afterwords I refused to get sucked into all the resulting drama.

OP hear with an update. Thank you for responding and you are very smart.

My sister actually brought up filial law in a backhanded way, i.e. “good thing we aren’t living in a state that has one”. Told her that that filial laws usually require criminal neglect and that me helping with bills, treating to carry out, buying a lift chair, etc, will not be considered past willful neglect. In addition, I reminded her that joint funds can’t be confiscated to pay their nursing home under these laws, etc.

I can’t with them anymore. Disengaging.

What do you mean in the bold there?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what the OP's solution is. My parents were in the same boat four years ago. They lived in the house I grew up in; had $5M in the bank; and were just barely hanging on health-wise (they're now mid to late 80s). My mother had dementia but wouldn't admit it, and my dad had very compromised mobility due to neuropathy. My mom ended up breaking her hip, and now, fast forward 4 years, they live in Assisted Living here burning cash. I hate it, they're miserable (well my mom doesn't know where she is, so who knows)--but what exactly is the alternative? Attestupa? At the time I was begging them to move to an independent living facility, but nothing would have changed. They end up in these rapacious AL facilities or we take care of them. That's what our medical system + a private equity-built eldercare system gives us. I think my only general regret is that we don't live in a more close-knit community--family or village--that handles these burdens collectively. Although, of course, at the time when that existed, most people died in their seventies.

Interesting that you wish you had a community who would take care of your family for you and I assume for free.

Not the PP you are responding to but... I think we need this. Not care for free, but care by a non profit instead of a profit making company, perhaps.

Both my parents ended up in nursing homes for their last few years - my dad due to a fall and my mom not being able to meet ADLs consistently when living on own. My dad was in a for profit. All the staff ranged from good to outstanding, but corporate clearly pushed a profit profit profit angle. My mom was in a non profit and the overall vibe was just much, much better. Even staff at non profit would say that it was preferable to work there then a for profit where they believed they were forced to stint on care, including not enough supplies.

Anonymous wrote:Where is the sister who lives with them in all of this?

OP, I stopped worrying about my parents after they gave my brain-dead sister POA, etc. They were of reasonably sound mind when paperwork was executed. When I first saw the documentation I expressed my strong view of their choices. Then I dropped it. Afterwords I refused to get sucked into all the resulting drama.

OP hear with an update. Thank you for responding and you are very smart.

My sister actually brought up filial law in a backhanded way, i.e. “good thing we aren’t living in a state that has one”. Told her that that filial laws usually require criminal neglect and that me helping with bills, treating to carry out, buying a lift chair, etc, will not be considered past willful neglect. In addition, I reminded her that joint funds can’t be confiscated to pay their nursing home under these laws, etc.

I can’t with them anymore. Disengaging.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what the OP's solution is. My parents were in the same boat four years ago. They lived in the house I grew up in; had $5M in the bank; and were just barely hanging on health-wise (they're now mid to late 80s). My mother had dementia but wouldn't admit it, and my dad had very compromised mobility due to neuropathy. My mom ended up breaking her hip, and now, fast forward 4 years, they live in Assisted Living here burning cash. I hate it, they're miserable (well my mom doesn't know where she is, so who knows)--but what exactly is the alternative? Attestupa? At the time I was begging them to move to an independent living facility, but nothing would have changed. They end up in these rapacious AL facilities or we take care of them. That's what our medical system + a private equity-built eldercare system gives us. I think my only general regret is that we don't live in a more close-knit community--family or village--that handles these burdens collectively. Although, of course, at the time when that existed, most people died in their seventies.

Interesting that you wish you had a community who would take care of your family for you and I assume for free.

Not the PP you are responding to but... I think we need this. Not care for free, but care by a non profit instead of a profit making company, perhaps.

Nonprofits have plenty of corruption and astronomically high salaries too.

Nobody out there wants to work with someone who becomes abusive and could assault them, yet people are on their soapboxes shouting about how cruel it is to medicate the elderly so they will be compliant and respectful with caregivers. There are plenty of people willing to help out with babies, even though we pay our daycare workers and other caregivers terribly, but we have a real crisis with elderly living so long in terrible shape. I should have the right the decide that I don't want to become abusive toward my family and caregivers and I don't want to decline to the point of being unable to do anything independently. I want the right to sign someone that once I decline to a certain level I can end my life humanely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what the OP's solution is. My parents were in the same boat four years ago. They lived in the house I grew up in; had $5M in the bank; and were just barely hanging on health-wise (they're now mid to late 80s). My mother had dementia but wouldn't admit it, and my dad had very compromised mobility due to neuropathy. My mom ended up breaking her hip, and now, fast forward 4 years, they live in Assisted Living here burning cash. I hate it, they're miserable (well my mom doesn't know where she is, so who knows)--but what exactly is the alternative? Attestupa? At the time I was begging them to move to an independent living facility, but nothing would have changed. They end up in these rapacious AL facilities or we take care of them. That's what our medical system + a private equity-built eldercare system gives us. I think my only general regret is that we don't live in a more close-knit community--family or village--that handles these burdens collectively. Although, of course, at the time when that existed, most people died in their seventies.

Interesting that you wish you had a community who would take care of your family for you and I assume for free.

Not the PP you are responding to but... I think we need this. Not care for free, but care by a non profit instead of a profit making company, perhaps.

Interesting article:
https://nonprofitquarterly.org/how-to-restore-the-care-in-long-term-nursing-care/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what the OP's solution is. My parents were in the same boat four years ago. They lived in the house I grew up in; had $5M in the bank; and were just barely hanging on health-wise (they're now mid to late 80s). My mother had dementia but wouldn't admit it, and my dad had very compromised mobility due to neuropathy. My mom ended up breaking her hip, and now, fast forward 4 years, they live in Assisted Living here burning cash. I hate it, they're miserable (well my mom doesn't know where she is, so who knows)--but what exactly is the alternative? Attestupa? At the time I was begging them to move to an independent living facility, but nothing would have changed. They end up in these rapacious AL facilities or we take care of them. That's what our medical system + a private equity-built eldercare system gives us. I think my only general regret is that we don't live in a more close-knit community--family or village--that handles these burdens collectively. Although, of course, at the time when that existed, most people died in their seventies.

Interesting that you wish you had a community who would take care of your family for you and I assume for free.

Not the PP you are responding to but... I think we need this. Not care for free, but care by a non profit instead of a profit making company, perhaps.

All the people who claim they will seek medical aide in dying seems to think they will be able to go through with it when the time comes. Assume you won’t be of sound mind, then what?

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what the OP's solution is. My parents were in the same boat four years ago. They lived in the house I grew up in; had $5M in the bank; and were just barely hanging on health-wise (they're now mid to late 80s). My mother had dementia but wouldn't admit it, and my dad had very compromised mobility due to neuropathy. My mom ended up breaking her hip, and now, fast forward 4 years, they live in Assisted Living here burning cash. I hate it, they're miserable (well my mom doesn't know where she is, so who knows)--but what exactly is the alternative? Attestupa? At the time I was begging them to move to an independent living facility, but nothing would have changed. They end up in these rapacious AL facilities or we take care of them. That's what our medical system + a private equity-built eldercare system gives us. I think my only general regret is that we don't live in a more close-knit community--family or village--that handles these burdens collectively. Although, of course, at the time when that existed, most people died in their seventies.

Interesting that you wish you had a community who would take care of your family for you and I assume for free.

Anonymous wrote:Your system (I'm Canadian) is all about extracting a lifetime of wealth and handing it over to the elder care "industry." You don't care about seniors in any way, shape or form. Follow the money - it's always about that. Here in my province we charge people less than 2K a month for long term care. We also get vilified by the US media for allowing Alzheimer's patients in the earliest stages to use medical aid in dying.

We don't strip seniors of all their assets and impoverish the spouse. I don't have any kids and I will choose medical aid in dying and skip dementia so I have more peace of mind than any older American does. My assets will go to the daughter of a friend who wasted her life in the helping industry earning peanuts so at least she won't be poor in her old age.

I am all for medical aid in dying and would consider retiring in Canada to have that option. I will not do to my children what my parents did to us. I will not turn into a monster. Dementia can be ugly and sadly in my family it turns abusive. I think medical aide in dying is extremely humane. I would love to be able to say proper goodbyes, never turn abusive toward my children and have them left with more assets to buffer them against life stressors like medical bills, paying for college, etc.

Where is the sister who lives with them in all of this?

OP, I stopped worrying about my parents after they gave my brain-dead sister POA, etc. They were of reasonably sound mind when paperwork was executed. When I first saw the documentation I expressed my strong view of their choices. Then I dropped it. Afterwords I refused to get sucked into all the resulting drama.

Your system (I'm Canadian) is all about extracting a lifetime of wealth and handing it over to the elder care "industry." You don't care about seniors in any way, shape or form. Follow the money - it's always about that. Here in my province we charge people less than 2K a month for long term care. We also get vilified by the US media for allowing Alzheimer's patients in the earliest stages to use medical aid in dying.

We don't strip seniors of all their assets and impoverish the spouse. I don't have any kids and I will choose medical aid in dying and skip dementia so I have more peace of mind than any older American does. My assets will go to the daughter of a friend who wasted her life in the helping industry earning peanuts so at least she won't be poor in her old age.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Try to understand my point.
No one is saying that people shouldn't plan for the future and all its possible consequences. I am saying that people in the 50 to 75 ish group are perfectly able to do this without their kids helping them or guiding them or taking them by the hand to these resources. They are perfectly able at this age to be completely cogent and probably better at this than their kids who are in their 30s 40s and even 50s.
^^
I don't know about all this. [b]My parents had pretty substantial decline around age 70 and then after isolating for two years they really lost a lot of mental capacity, energy, executive functioning, and social skills. [/b] My mom is 76 and makes errors on her medications, loses stuff all the time, and is generally very difficult to be around. She needs help to manage her day-to-day already. [/quote]

My parents were the same too. They were 71 and 73 when Covid hit. My mom already had slight dementia but went downhill fast --obviously I can't say for sure it was the isolation of Covid but I'm sure that didn't help. By September 2020 she was still only 71 but completely incapable of functioning. [/quote]

"Only" 71 is the key term here. These examples are outliers, which happens, but not the majority in this age group. 71 is alert , productive, smart, etc.