Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 17:37     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Attendance in all civic associations has been declining for 50 years. Religions (or any volunteer clubs with attendance and service requirements) demand a lot from people; most claim they don't go due to dogmatic issues or in protest of scandal, but I think these are cop-outs. It's mostly because it's easier to not go every Sunday. Americans have just become pretty lazy and self-absorbed, and it's easier to lie around and do your phone. Mainline Protestant churches are a proof point: They've dropped almost all dogma. Anything goes, they've bent over backwards to modern sensibilities, and their attendance has declined the most. I do think we are all worse off for it. Churches used to provide the social norms that gave people purpose, and kept behavior within acceptable bounds without the use of laws, contracts, or force. This is now largely gone, and there's a cost to that. We are now a low-trust society. And yes, I know that we used to be segregated and bla bla, but guess what--we still are. Literally everyone in a given neighborhood is now an ideological clone of one another. I met an ex-Catholic recently who said she stopped going to Mass because she doesn't believe that transubstantiation is scientifically possible... ahem... yeah, we get it. At some point, you just have to do the stuff and suspend your disbelief.


Or not do the stuff and not suspend your disbelief. Maybe all of all this, there will come places for people to get the social benefits of religious institutions without having to pretend to believe in God.


Ethical Societies and some Unitarian churches do this now. Also some Episcopalian churches, although they have completely Christian rituals. And there's one Jewish temple in DC that is humanist.


I don’t know if ANY Episcopal churches that are humanist and not religious in foundation.

We care deeply about people but have not thrown away the baby with the dirty bath water.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 17:24     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
We attend a non denominational Christian church in the area. I go the most often in our family. It has a decent amount of attendance - not huge, not small. The have modern music and the messages are well thought out.

Years ago we attended a more traditional Methodist church but right before the pandemic I realized that it was just so old fashioned - not just the service but the entire physical building and the congregation. A lot of people still wanted to dress up for every service -some women would wear pantyhose even, classic organ music, full robed choir, and so on. The music and the messages were uninspiring and they were just kind of blah. I kind of felt like I was back in the 1950s. I don't think that is just limited to that church and I think far too many resisted for far too long that the formal church going of previous decades wasn't needed anymore. Is church any less church if someone wears shorts instead of a suit?
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 17:06     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
In our household DD is the only one confirmed. She attended. When she was at college the church dropped her from their rolls. Sent a letter saying, since she hadn't attended in awhile she was being dropped.

Who does that? Other churches send care packages to their college students!
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 17:03     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.


I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.


I agree and will add that I think that “Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

As for “Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ it can be society or other real, not supernatural (i.e., imaginary) things.

Some people, though, really need to feel more consequential than they are as individuals, and God/religion/church helps them feel that way.


Wow

“Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

Does that go for anything that anyone believes?


Sure. But most people apply it only to God. Can you think of any other being that people believe in that is invisible?
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 16:36     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
When my kids were maybe 8 until they went off to college, our lives were so crazy that we often couldn’t make it to church. It didn’t help that both were in travel soccer and if we didn’t have games on Sunday morning, or tournaments the whole weekend, then everybody needed a morning off. Now that they’re in college I’m back to going to church. I feel bad they didn’t get to attend very often, but some of their other obligations were non-negotiable. The crazy pace around here kinda sucks.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 15:54     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.


I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.


I agree and will add that I think that “Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

As for “Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ it can be society or other real, not supernatural (i.e., imaginary) things.

Some people, though, really need to feel more consequential than they are as individuals, and God/religion/church helps them feel that way.


Wow

“Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

Does that go for anything that anyone believes?
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 15:51     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.


I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.


I agree and will add that I think that “Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

As for “Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ it can be society or other real, not supernatural (i.e., imaginary) things.

Some people, though, really need to feel more consequential than they are as individuals, and God/religion/church helps them feel that way.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 13:54     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.


I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 13:45     Subject: Re:Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Get back to us when you're older and dealing with the aging process, cancer, tragedies, etc.


Religion can be a good thing. You don't have to attend an organized church to be religious.


PP hete. I don't disagree with you.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 13:37     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 13:35     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
It is true that most ex-churchgoers blame inflexibility of the church on social issues but I don't see them switching to a more liberal church. They just give it up altogether.
In my very blue area we have three types of churches:
-Mainline Protestant: all in with rainbow flags, BLM signs, and the congregation is sparse and gray-haired. One church even does a special Family service with coffee, donuts, fingerpainting and invites people to wear their PAJAMAS. Many families go once or twice and never go back.
-Catholic: around here they go out of their way to stay apolitical. No mention of abortion or any other sin other than not loving your neighbor. Still well attended though mostly by old people.
-Evangelical: All in on the culture war, spouting conservative talking points, and full of young families. Standing room only.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 13:35     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Attendance in all civic associations has been declining for 50 years. Religions (or any volunteer clubs with attendance and service requirements) demand a lot from people; most claim they don't go due to dogmatic issues or in protest of scandal, but I think these are cop-outs. It's mostly because it's easier to not go every Sunday. Americans have just become pretty lazy and self-absorbed, and it's easier to lie around and do your phone. Mainline Protestant churches are a proof point: They've dropped almost all dogma. Anything goes, they've bent over backwards to modern sensibilities, and their attendance has declined the most. I do think we are all worse off for it. Churches used to provide the social norms that gave people purpose, and kept behavior within acceptable bounds without the use of laws, contracts, or force. This is now largely gone, and there's a cost to that. We are now a low-trust society. And yes, I know that we used to be segregated and bla bla, but guess what--we still are. Literally everyone in a given neighborhood is now an ideological clone of one another. I met an ex-Catholic recently who said she stopped going to Mass because she doesn't believe that transubstantiation is scientifically possible... ahem... yeah, we get it. At some point, you just have to do the stuff and suspend your disbelief.


Or not do the stuff and not suspend your disbelief. Maybe all of all this, there will come places for people to get the social benefits of religious institutions without having to pretend to believe in God.


Ethical Societies and some Unitarian churches do this now. Also some Episcopalian churches, although they have completely Christian rituals. And there's one Jewish temple in DC that is humanist.


I have heard that the Washington Ethical Society is doing poorly since the pandemic. Their members are already not religious, so in this case, rejecting God is not the issue. Don't know what is. Have heard that their Sunday school has closed down.

Not a member. If anyone here is, would like to hear from them about this.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 12:50     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Attendance in all civic associations has been declining for 50 years. Religions (or any volunteer clubs with attendance and service requirements) demand a lot from people; most claim they don't go due to dogmatic issues or in protest of scandal, but I think these are cop-outs. It's mostly because it's easier to not go every Sunday. Americans have just become pretty lazy and self-absorbed, and it's easier to lie around and do your phone. Mainline Protestant churches are a proof point: They've dropped almost all dogma. Anything goes, they've bent over backwards to modern sensibilities, and their attendance has declined the most. I do think we are all worse off for it. Churches used to provide the social norms that gave people purpose, and kept behavior within acceptable bounds without the use of laws, contracts, or force. This is now largely gone, and there's a cost to that. We are now a low-trust society. And yes, I know that we used to be segregated and bla bla, but guess what--we still are. Literally everyone in a given neighborhood is now an ideological clone of one another. I met an ex-Catholic recently who said she stopped going to Mass because she doesn't believe that transubstantiation is scientifically possible... ahem... yeah, we get it. At some point, you just have to do the stuff and suspend your disbelief.


Or not do the stuff and not suspend your disbelief. Maybe all of all this, there will come places for people to get the social benefits of religious institutions without having to pretend to believe in God.


Ethical Societies and some Unitarian churches do this now. Also some Episcopalian churches, although they have completely Christian rituals. And there's one Jewish temple in DC that is humanist.
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 10:47     Subject: Re:Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Get back to us when you're older and dealing with the aging process, cancer, tragedies, etc.


This may be odd to you, but those times are here and I deal with it with doctors, allopathic medicine, taking care of my health, and the support of family and friends, and not the unfounded belief some magic judge will decide to spare me if I say the right words in my head enough times.


That magic judge can also bring comfort, even if prayers to him don't cure disease. For some people, this is enough.


Comfort? Or false hope?

And should it be enough? Do people not care what is true?

Would anything that "provides comfort" be good then?
Anonymous
Post 05/18/2023 10:28     Subject: Church attendance continues to plummet
Anonymous wrote:Attendance in all civic associations has been declining for 50 years. Religions (or any volunteer clubs with attendance and service requirements) demand a lot from people; most claim they don't go due to dogmatic issues or in protest of scandal, but I think these are cop-outs. It's mostly because it's easier to not go every Sunday. Americans have just become pretty lazy and self-absorbed, and it's easier to lie around and do your phone. Mainline Protestant churches are a proof point: They've dropped almost all dogma. Anything goes, they've bent over backwards to modern sensibilities, and their attendance has declined the most. I do think we are all worse off for it. Churches used to provide the social norms that gave people purpose, and kept behavior within acceptable bounds without the use of laws, contracts, or force. This is now largely gone, and there's a cost to that. We are now a low-trust society. And yes, I know that we used to be segregated and bla bla, but guess what--we still are. Literally everyone in a given neighborhood is now an ideological clone of one another. I met an ex-Catholic recently who said she stopped going to Mass because she doesn't believe that transubstantiation is scientifically possible... ahem... yeah, we get it. At some point, you just have to do the stuff and suspend your disbelief.


Or not do the stuff and not suspend your disbelief. Maybe all of all this, there will come places for people to get the social benefits of religious institutions without having to pretend to believe in God.