Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

I express dismay at the situation teachers find themselves in and I’m admonished for not being supportive. Hence, I give up. Good luck.

I’m a DP. I suspect the PP was reacting to the comment that you hope for a teacher who cuts corners elsewhere in order to free time for your child.

If we do that, another parent’s child suffers.

The system is absolutely the problem. Personally, I’d love to see all the non-teaching staff back in the classroom. That would lower class sizes (and shrink grading piles), which would take the pressure off teachers. I also feel I now have to buy into a ton of initiatives simply to justify these non-teaching positions.

What would help most is teachers only having to teach 4 sections instead of 5 as a full time schedule. The other 4 blocks would be planning, grading, PLC. No duty block- hire monitors for that. No teaching a 5th section as it takes away time from the necessary things like planning and grading. But districts would have to invest in more teachers to do this and that would take away from salaries at admin building where they do … who knows what

Yes! I’d love to see admin shrink. I feel my job gets harder as more people find non-teaching positions.

I struggle to figure out what they do. The instructional coaches are constantly reaching out to us in the classroom to ask for ideas and advice and if we want to do curriculum creation work . Like —- can’t you guys do that?? We’re kinda busy!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

I express dismay at the situation teachers find themselves in and I’m admonished for not being supportive. Hence, I give up. Good luck.

I’m a DP. I suspect the PP was reacting to the comment that you hope for a teacher who cuts corners elsewhere in order to free time for your child.

If we do that, another parent’s child suffers.

The system is absolutely the problem. Personally, I’d love to see all the non-teaching staff back in the classroom. That would lower class sizes (and shrink grading piles), which would take the pressure off teachers. I also feel I now have to buy into a ton of initiatives simply to justify these non-teaching positions.

What would help most is teachers only having to teach 4 sections instead of 5 as a full time schedule. The other 4 blocks would be planning, grading, PLC. No duty block- hire monitors for that. No teaching a 5th section as it takes away time from the necessary things like planning and grading. But districts would have to invest in more teachers to do this and that would take away from salaries at admin building where they do … who knows what

Yes! I’d love to see admin shrink. I feel my job gets harder as more people find non-teaching positions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

I express dismay at the situation teachers find themselves in and I’m admonished for not being supportive. Hence, I give up. Good luck.

I’m a DP. I suspect the PP was reacting to the comment that you hope for a teacher who cuts corners elsewhere in order to free time for your child.

If we do that, another parent’s child suffers.

The system is absolutely the problem. Personally, I’d love to see all the non-teaching staff back in the classroom. That would lower class sizes (and shrink grading piles), which would take the pressure off teachers. I also feel I now have to buy into a ton of initiatives simply to justify these non-teaching positions.

What would help most is teachers only having to teach 4 sections instead of 5 as a full time schedule. The other 4 blocks would be planning, grading, PLC. No duty block- hire monitors for that. No teaching a 5th section as it takes away time from the necessary things like planning and grading. But districts would have to invest in more teachers to do this and that would take away from salaries at admin building where they do … who knows what

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

I express dismay at the situation teachers find themselves in and I’m admonished for not being supportive. Hence, I give up. Good luck.

Why are you wishing us luck? We are doing our jobs, even if you don’t like how we do it. Our students are fine and growing even if you think it’s unacceptable to ask them to check with us during their study hall if they need help. And I know how to teach my own kids how to read and write so I can supplement at home if needed. Sounds like you’re the one who needs the luck …

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

I express dismay at the situation teachers find themselves in and I’m admonished for not being supportive. Hence, I give up. Good luck.

I’m a DP. I suspect the PP was reacting to the comment that you hope for a teacher who cuts corners elsewhere in order to free time for your child.

If we do that, another parent’s child suffers.

The system is absolutely the problem. Personally, I’d love to see all the non-teaching staff back in the classroom. That would lower class sizes (and shrink grading piles), which would take the pressure off teachers. I also feel I now have to buy into a ton of initiatives simply to justify these non-teaching positions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

Here was my lesson yesterday as a HS math teacher:

-Warm up reviewing a topic a good portion of students struggled with last unit
-15 minute lesson structured as “I do/we do/you do” where students gradually take control of problems. Each is done on the board. Feedback.
-“quiz, quiz, trade” where students have cards with a problem on one side (in this case finding the vertical and horizontal asymptotes of a rational function in transformational format) and the answer on the back. They pair up, quiz each other with their card, swap cards, and find a new partner. In 5 minutes they can practice 10 problems with feedback, plus move out of their seat which they need.
-another 15 minute lesson, this time on standard form
-white board practice, gameified. I put a problem on the board, students solved it on their mini white boards and held it up for immediate feedback. Points/teams involved to get student buy in.
-Classwork worksheet handed out. 10 problems similar to the ones they just saw in prior activities. Students had to graph rational functions with vertical and horizontal asymptotes in various forms. If graphed properly, the function crosses a letter in the graph which spells the punchline to a joke. If the graph doesn’t go through a letter, student knows they messed up. Feedback.

Before they take the test they will get a study guide with a full worked answer key and suggestions provided. We will have an entire 90 minute block devoted to review, additional practice opportunities with built in feedback, and a chance to ask individual questions. The expectation is students check their work on the study guide with my key and ask for help when needed. (Which is probably the most valuable life skill I could teach!)

So yeah, I am pretty confident my students are learning and getting feedback even though nothing I mentioned is graded.

I do grade and hand back tests (once everyone has taken it) but I can tell you that’s not the feedback kids learn from in my room. I find half the tests in the recycle bin after class.

I say all this because a good teacher is providing feedback all day, every day. Modern teaching is a constant feedback loop. It’s not direct instruction/note taking for the whole block followed by doing the odd problems from the textbook anymore.

Maybe it should be. Your lesson sounds wonderful, but requires much more planning .

I’m sorry, but this is why parents really shouldn’t have much of a say in how we teach. I read this post as a teacher and was like this is excellent- they built in direct instruction, guided individual and group practice, student talk and responsibility, constant feedback, and student engagement. It’s objectively a great lesson . Then I see you- “You should do all notes from a textbook instead.” LAUGH OUT LOUD. None of you really know what you’re talking about re: education but you feel so confident to come tell everyone how to do their jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

I express dismay at the situation teachers find themselves in and I’m admonished for not being supportive. Hence, I give up. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

Here was my lesson yesterday as a HS math teacher:

-Warm up reviewing a topic a good portion of students struggled with last unit
-15 minute lesson structured as “I do/we do/you do” where students gradually take control of problems. Each is done on the board. Feedback.
-“quiz, quiz, trade” where students have cards with a problem on one side (in this case finding the vertical and horizontal asymptotes of a rational function in transformational format) and the answer on the back. They pair up, quiz each other with their card, swap cards, and find a new partner. In 5 minutes they can practice 10 problems with feedback, plus move out of their seat which they need.
-another 15 minute lesson, this time on standard form
-white board practice, gameified. I put a problem on the board, students solved it on their mini white boards and held it up for immediate feedback. Points/teams involved to get student buy in.
-Classwork worksheet handed out. 10 problems similar to the ones they just saw in prior activities. Students had to graph rational functions with vertical and horizontal asymptotes in various forms. If graphed properly, the function crosses a letter in the graph which spells the punchline to a joke. If the graph doesn’t go through a letter, student knows they messed up. Feedback.

Before they take the test they will get a study guide with a full worked answer key and suggestions provided. We will have an entire 90 minute block devoted to review, additional practice opportunities with built in feedback, and a chance to ask individual questions. The expectation is students check their work on the study guide with my key and ask for help when needed. (Which is probably the most valuable life skill I could teach!)

So yeah, I am pretty confident my students are learning and getting feedback even though nothing I mentioned is graded.

I do grade and hand back tests (once everyone has taken it) but I can tell you that’s not the feedback kids learn from in my room. I find half the tests in the recycle bin after class.

I say all this because a good teacher is providing feedback all day, every day. Modern teaching is a constant feedback loop. It’s not direct instruction/note taking for the whole block followed by doing the odd problems from the textbook anymore.

Maybe it should be. Your lesson sounds wonderful, but requires much more planning .

If I taught direct instruction for 90 minutes and assigned textbook problems I can assure you behavior problems would be out the wazoo and even the “good kids” would lose interest. Blame technology or parenting or evolution or training or…but research proves that the vast majority of people cannot focus in depth on a topic longer than 15 minutes. Therefor no section of my lesson is longer than 15 minutes, alternating direct instruction, partner activities, movement, individual work. Keeps brains working.

Even my most traditional colleagues don’t do 90 minutes of lecture any more. It just doesn’t work.

And yes, planning this way is way more work, you’re absolutely right. I’ve taught for 12 years so it’s been a gradual accumulation of structures and activities to get here. A first year (really, first 3 years!) teacher can’t realistically do this for multiple preps, so hopefully someone is handing them a folder of their lesson plans so they have something to go on to start.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

You’ve given no evidence that you support us. If grading and feedback are important then get the county to give us more time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

Here was my lesson yesterday as a HS math teacher:

-Warm up reviewing a topic a good portion of students struggled with last unit
-15 minute lesson structured as “I do/we do/you do” where students gradually take control of problems. Each is done on the board. Feedback.
-“quiz, quiz, trade” where students have cards with a problem on one side (in this case finding the vertical and horizontal asymptotes of a rational function in transformational format) and the answer on the back. They pair up, quiz each other with their card, swap cards, and find a new partner. In 5 minutes they can practice 10 problems with feedback, plus move out of their seat which they need.
-another 15 minute lesson, this time on standard form
-white board practice, gameified. I put a problem on the board, students solved it on their mini white boards and held it up for immediate feedback. Points/teams involved to get student buy in.
-Classwork worksheet handed out. 10 problems similar to the ones they just saw in prior activities. Students had to graph rational functions with vertical and horizontal asymptotes in various forms. If graphed properly, the function crosses a letter in the graph which spells the punchline to a joke. If the graph doesn’t go through a letter, student knows they messed up. Feedback.

Before they take the test they will get a study guide with a full worked answer key and suggestions provided. We will have an entire 90 minute block devoted to review, additional practice opportunities with built in feedback, and a chance to ask individual questions. The expectation is students check their work on the study guide with my key and ask for help when needed. (Which is probably the most valuable life skill I could teach!)

So yeah, I am pretty confident my students are learning and getting feedback even though nothing I mentioned is graded.

I do grade and hand back tests (once everyone has taken it) but I can tell you that’s not the feedback kids learn from in my room. I find half the tests in the recycle bin after class.

I say all this because a good teacher is providing feedback all day, every day. Modern teaching is a constant feedback loop. It’s not direct instruction/note taking for the whole block followed by doing the odd problems from the textbook anymore.

Maybe it should be. Your lesson sounds wonderful, but requires much more planning .

DP.
Why does this lesson require more planning? What is it missing? I just read through it again specifically to look at the amount of planning it would take to pull off that lesson, and I imagine it took some time. You can’t walk into any of those activities cold. They also appear to be strategically chosen to provide practice and feedback.

Thank you, Math teacher. This was a good example of what feedback may look like in a classroom that parents may not see.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

Here was my lesson yesterday as a HS math teacher:

-Warm up reviewing a topic a good portion of students struggled with last unit
-15 minute lesson structured as “I do/we do/you do” where students gradually take control of problems. Each is done on the board. Feedback.
-“quiz, quiz, trade” where students have cards with a problem on one side (in this case finding the vertical and horizontal asymptotes of a rational function in transformational format) and the answer on the back. They pair up, quiz each other with their card, swap cards, and find a new partner. In 5 minutes they can practice 10 problems with feedback, plus move out of their seat which they need.
-another 15 minute lesson, this time on standard form
-white board practice, gameified. I put a problem on the board, students solved it on their mini white boards and held it up for immediate feedback. Points/teams involved to get student buy in.
-Classwork worksheet handed out. 10 problems similar to the ones they just saw in prior activities. Students had to graph rational functions with vertical and horizontal asymptotes in various forms. If graphed properly, the function crosses a letter in the graph which spells the punchline to a joke. If the graph doesn’t go through a letter, student knows they messed up. Feedback.

Before they take the test they will get a study guide with a full worked answer key and suggestions provided. We will have an entire 90 minute block devoted to review, additional practice opportunities with built in feedback, and a chance to ask individual questions. The expectation is students check their work on the study guide with my key and ask for help when needed. (Which is probably the most valuable life skill I could teach!)

So yeah, I am pretty confident my students are learning and getting feedback even though nothing I mentioned is graded.

I do grade and hand back tests (once everyone has taken it) but I can tell you that’s not the feedback kids learn from in my room. I find half the tests in the recycle bin after class.

I say all this because a good teacher is providing feedback all day, every day. Modern teaching is a constant feedback loop. It’s not direct instruction/note taking for the whole block followed by doing the odd problems from the textbook anymore.

Maybe it should be. Your lesson sounds wonderful, but requires much more planning .

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

Here was my lesson yesterday as a HS math teacher:

-Warm up reviewing a topic a good portion of students struggled with last unit
-15 minute lesson structured as “I do/we do/you do” where students gradually take control of problems. Each is done on the board. Feedback.
-“quiz, quiz, trade” where students have cards with a problem on one side (in this case finding the vertical and horizontal asymptotes of a rational function in transformational format) and the answer on the back. They pair up, quiz each other with their card, swap cards, and find a new partner. In 5 minutes they can practice 10 problems with feedback, plus move out of their seat which they need.
-another 15 minute lesson, this time on standard form
-white board practice, gameified. I put a problem on the board, students solved it on their mini white boards and held it up for immediate feedback. Points/teams involved to get student buy in.
-Classwork worksheet handed out. 10 problems similar to the ones they just saw in prior activities. Students had to graph rational functions with vertical and horizontal asymptotes in various forms. If graphed properly, the function crosses a letter in the graph which spells the punchline to a joke. If the graph doesn’t go through a letter, student knows they messed up. Feedback.

Before they take the test they will get a study guide with a full worked answer key and suggestions provided. We will have an entire 90 minute block devoted to review, additional practice opportunities with built in feedback, and a chance to ask individual questions. The expectation is students check their work on the study guide with my key and ask for help when needed. (Which is probably the most valuable life skill I could teach!)

So yeah, I am pretty confident my students are learning and getting feedback even though nothing I mentioned is graded.

I do grade and hand back tests (once everyone has taken it) but I can tell you that’s not the feedback kids learn from in my room. I find half the tests in the recycle bin after class.

I say all this because a good teacher is providing feedback all day, every day. Modern teaching is a constant feedback loop. It’s not direct instruction/note taking for the whole block followed by doing the odd problems from the textbook anymore.

Yeah I’m also confused what corner they want us to cut at school - none of them can be cut - which leads me to believe what they actually want us to cut is the hours we aren’t contracted to work and need to be doing things like taking care of our families, sleeping, having a life outside of work. I agree the system isn’t set up for us to be as effective as we could be, but there’s nothing we can willingly “cut” during contract hours that would make that so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What exactly are teachers accountable for then, if not educating students?

We're accountable to our employer.

So it's about keeping FCPS administration happy, kids education be damned?

No, but you asked who we're accountable to, and it's our employer, same as anyone else. We complete our tasks as directed and if there is an issue with compliance, our manager will surely let us know.

You are not our manager. You also won't get me with this martyr complex.

I asked what teachers can be held accountable for, you changed it to accountable to. Which suggests teachers see the job not in terms of goals to accomplish, but people to keep happy. And it's not a martyr complex, it's introspection.

Sure, I wish I could have time to give detailed feedback on each test and essay but that isn't conducive to a healthy work/life balance. My students have gone on to do great things despite my "not caring" about them so I'm not too worried. And I see my job in terms of goals to accomplish, many of which are set by our employer, who yes, we do need to keep happy.

You're prioritizing other things. Understood.

We are prioritizing whatever our employer tells us to - and grading has never been high on the list.

Which is astonishing considering there can be no learning without direct, individualized feedback (which is what grading is). How on earth are children supposed to know what they are doing incorrectly?

I’m the teacher who posted above. We receive no time during our workdays to actually provide individualized feedback. It’s expected that we spend our nights and weekends doing that.

I don’t mind working outside contract hours. I do mind that it is expected that I do it every day and every weekend.

If we want feedback to be part of a student’s school experience, as it should be, then we need to provide teachers work time to do it.

Who is we? As has been pointed out here, I'm not a teacher's boss or manager. I can't give teachers that time. It has to come from admin, and clearly it's not going to. That leaves me to hope that my child gets a teacher who will cuts corner on other duties in order to educate my child properly. And if I express dismay at this situation, I'm admonished for not being supportive of teachers. I give up. No wonder the education system is in shambles. Good luck to us all.

Which duty would you like me to cut? Would you like me to stop planning engaging meaningful lessons? Would you like me to plan silent seat work so I can get my work done while the students are in the classroom? Would you like me to stop responding to all emails?

There’s no corner I can cut. Perhaps you want me to cut subbing duty or cafeteria duty. Those are in my contract. And if I’m not there, your child will be alone in a cafeteria with 300 other students and no supervision. Want me to skip IEP meetings? That puts me in real trouble.

Teachers are doing the work of 2-3 people every week. To ask us to cut corners shows you have no idea how much we are overwhelmed with real obligations, and each is important.

I’m off to dedicate my Saturday to work.

Good luck indeed. It’s a mess and beyond fixing. I’m a teacher and a parent and sometimes I think wow, I can’t believe my own kids are soon going to be learning in the kind of high school environment I work in. Being mad at teachers for not having time to give personalized feedback is pointless- the system is working against all of us. I could be an incredible teacher if the system wasn’t working against me and these students at every junction. The kids could be learning more too if it weren’t for the ridiculous policies districts adopt to curate the data set they want to see.