Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are a huge waste of time & money. Massive opportunity cost. If you have undergrad student loans, you will have a very difficult time paying them down during a PhD program. People come out at 29 making $60k if they’re lucky, when they could’ve started making that at 22.

Ooookay. The PhD should be fully funded, so no money is spent there. There may be an opportunity cost if the student could earn more during those years. Maybe in some fields that's possible.

Frankly, this hypothetical student should have worked hard enough in high school to get into a no-loans undergrad school, or at least full tuition in a lesser school. No really excellent student should have undergrad debt.

Your privilege is showing.

Nope. These no-loans aid for the middle class schools offer full rides plus bridge programs plus internship matchmaking plus major admissions boosts to promising first-generation students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are a huge waste of time & money. Massive opportunity cost. If you have undergrad student loans, you will have a very difficult time paying them down during a PhD program. People come out at 29 making $60k if they’re lucky, when they could’ve started making that at 22.

Ooookay. The PhD should be fully funded, so no money is spent there. There may be an opportunity cost if the student could earn more during those years. Maybe in some fields that's possible.

Frankly, this hypothetical student should have worked hard enough in high school to get into a no-loans undergrad school, or at least full tuition in a lesser school. No really excellent student should have undergrad debt.

Your privilege is showing.

Anonymous wrote:They are a huge waste of time & money. Massive opportunity cost. If you have undergrad student loans, you will have a very difficult time paying them down during a PhD program. People come out at 29 making $60k if they’re lucky, when they could’ve started making that at 22.

Ooookay. The PhD should be fully funded, so no money is spent there. There may be an opportunity cost if the student could earn more during those years. Maybe in some fields that's possible.

Frankly, this hypothetical student should have worked hard enough in high school to get into a no-loans undergrad school, or at least full tuition in a lesser school. No really excellent student should have undergrad debt.

Just like people who say med school isn’t worth it because there’s the option of PA school, most people dissing PhDs are people who couldn’t get into a funded program in the first place.

This post explains too much about life in the US.
Hint...PhDs figured out the coronavirus vaccine, the internet and most of the other things you appreciate. They are the ones who make sure your medications don't kill you and figure out how to spend our research budgets doing policy.

A PhD is not about the money in the sciences necessarily, although it can be. These days, my students make $40k/year for a few years and then get jobs making $200k+. And their trajectory in ten years is often much more.

As a professor I make a very good salary and also most professors in my field have startup companies based on their research so we make more. And I have tenure so I suppose I will never starve, though really, I have lots of opportunities to try all sorts of things and also, people who want PhDs and academic jobs just do these things naturally -- science is a methodical application of a practice of thinking of new ideas that further our knowledge or better the world. So, yes, money isn't the driving issue. This is true for the majority of the PhD students I see.

It isn't for everyone and there are bad PhDs but there are bad everything. This thread is stupid.

I have a PhD in psychology (so not a particularly lucrative-sounding field) and I love my nonacademic job that requires my PhD and pays $200k. I outearn my engineer husband. Sure I didn't start working for real until I was 27, although I did get a stipend in grad school and did not accrue any debt. Despite my late start to the working world, I am glad I am able to do work I truly enjoy for a very comfortable salary.

FWIW nearly all my grad school peers are doing really cool things. My PhD is in research psychology, not clinical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dunno I started my assistant professor job at 27 making $210k and now make 300k, tenured and almost impossible to fire, and i work about 10 hours per week. But you do you OP

Well, this helps to explain the soaring tuition. Maybe this school should hire a PhD in Economics to figure out a way to lower costs.

A Phd does not make much sense any longer. My brother obtained one in Econ from a top 5 school, in the 80's and had several tenure track offers. Taught at a highly ranked university for a few years. But even then he realized that the bloom was off the rose in terms of academic careers. He went into investment management (does teach adjunct) and makes what the person above bragging about making 310k a year in each week. I say this only to remind academics is not the place to make money. This level of compensation is only after a stellar 30 year record. He has Harvard MBA's working for him, and while he certainly appreciates his education he would freely admit it is hardly the only way to be at the top of his field, which he is. The Phd field is saturated today and even with a fellowship the opportunity cost of obtaining one is enormous. This doesn't mean that they aren't the best thing for a few but there should be a healthy skepticism before applying to such programs, no matter the prestige or name.

Anonymous wrote:I dunno I started my assistant professor job at 27 making $210k and now make 300k, tenured and almost impossible to fire, and i work about 10 hours per week. But you do you OP

Well, this helps to explain the soaring tuition. Maybe this school should hire a PhD in Economics to figure out a way to lower costs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dunno I started my assistant professor job at 27 making $210k and now make 300k, tenured and almost impossible to fire, and i work about 10 hours per week. But you do you OP

Yeah and for every "you" there are hundreds of PhDs who did not get any kind of professor job. You must have been on hiring committees, and surely you know how bad it really is.

Plus it sounds like your PhD was in STEM and if you'd taken the same BS / MS into industry you'd be making even more. But you did you.

Isn't that the case with every domain? If you study English, you end up as a copywriter/proposal writer and live at the bottom of the totem pole. if you keep studying and get a PhD in English, you may not get a teaching job but that writing was on the wall the day you signed up to study English in undergrad, wasn't it?

With other domains (e.g. CS), it's a QOL decision. Grind it out in until 30, you are set for life (lower pay, yes, but not a code-monkey), job security, strong retirement benefits, respect in society, etc. At 40, you could be making $1M at google (very, very few get there) or be a full prof. at a university advising the google department leads on the future of technology making $500K. If you get lucky with a couple of patents, you could become a multi-millionaire too..

Anonymous wrote:My PhD took us from rags to riches. Came out making 6 figures and no debt. Work 10 hours a week and get summers off! Op needs an education.

The vast majority of PhD students will never become tenured professors.


And I know you’re a troll because if you weren’t, you’d know that we have to use the summers to research.

My PhD took us from rags to riches. Came out making 6 figures and no debt. Work 10 hours a week and get summers off! Op needs an education.

Anonymous wrote:I dunno I started my assistant professor job at 27 making $210k and now make 300k, tenured and almost impossible to fire, and i work about 10 hours per week. But you do you OP

In CS/finance/accounting, that is

Anonymous wrote:I dunno I started my assistant professor job at 27 making $210k and now make 300k, tenured and almost impossible to fire, and i work about 10 hours per week. But you do you OP

Yeah and for every "you" there are hundreds of PhDs who did not get any kind of professor job. You must have been on hiring committees, and surely you know how bad it really is.

Plus it sounds like your PhD was in STEM and if you'd taken the same BS / MS into industry you'd be making even more. But you did you.

I dunno I started my assistant professor job at 27 making $210k and now make 300k, tenured and almost impossible to fire, and i work about 10 hours per week. But you do you OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baffles the mind that someone thinks a terminal degree in any field won't pay more than stopping along the way. A phD in Psychology is not going to have a bachelors in computer science or vice versa and a phD in psychology always makes more money than a bachelors in Psychology.

You can’t be serious. Getting a master’s or PhD in computer science isn’t going to earn someone anything more than a bachelor’s in that field would.

Most Masters programs in engineering/CS are funded (TA/RA/in-state tuition/waiver, etc.) and takes an extra year. Good deal in the grand scheme of things. Once you get into PhD, it is funded and you are not in it for the money (although CS PhDs get paid good money to teach). A programmer (often the job you get after a BS) is a low-end job, akin to a plumber. After 10 years you are still a plumber, albeit a senior one and when crap like the current downturn or a more serious one hits, you may be out of a job. With a PhD in a CS domain, you are teaching and researching a CS domain., much higher level job with a very low risk of job loss after tenure. Sure, the CS person with only a bachelor's degree can make more money in the short to medium term.. until they get laid off after 45-50 years. Good luck after that. The PhD can continue their research teaching well into their 80s if they choose to, live in a safe college town, lead a low-stress life, travel the world and generally have a much higher QOL that one with just a BS.