Anonymous wrote:Parents are not going to be allowed to sleep in the tent. Can you imagine the liability of 1 adult with 4 unrelated kids? Not happening. More than likely the overnights are over.

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Anonymous wrote:Parents are not going to be allowed to sleep in the tent. Can you imagine the liability of 1 adult with 4 unrelated kids? Not happening. More than likely the overnights are over.

Has your kid gone?? That's exactly what they do. One parent (same sex) in a tent with 2 or 3 kids.

Anonymous wrote:Parents are not going to be allowed to sleep in the tent. Can you imagine the liability of 1 adult with 4 unrelated kids? Not happening. More than likely the overnights are over.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids *love* the overnight. Cancelling the overnight part because of whatever happened last week would be a big overreaction. Worse things happen on other programs and they don't cancel the whole thing.

What’s worse than sexual assault? Murder?

sexual assault is sadly not uncommon on trips, and I think it's worse when somebody who is older is the perpetrator. There have been incidents of camp counselors assaulting minors, and here, assuming this was sexual assault, it was done by a 10-year old. But we are going to keep the programs where it was an adult committing the crime, and cancel a program where it was a little kid committing the crime?

Keep in mind, it's an optional field trip. If parents don't think it's appropriate or safe, they don't need to give permission for their kid to go.

Or they can go chaperone themselves. It’s not just teachers on the trip. Parents go as well

Yeah, privileged parents who can get the time off from work and have childcare for their other kids.

or are actually a 2-parent home; or who have family who can watch other kids; or neighbors who can watch other kids; or, or, or.... Not every parent has to go. They don't require that many chaperones.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids *love* the overnight. Cancelling the overnight part because of whatever happened last week would be a big overreaction. Worse things happen on other programs and they don't cancel the whole thing.

What’s worse than sexual assault? Murder?

sexual assault is sadly not uncommon on trips, and I think it's worse when somebody who is older is the perpetrator. There have been incidents of camp counselors assaulting minors, and here, assuming this was sexual assault, it was done by a 10-year old. But we are going to keep the programs where it was an adult committing the crime, and cancel a program where it was a little kid committing the crime?

Keep in mind, it's an optional field trip. If parents don't think it's appropriate or safe, they don't need to give permission for their kid to go.

Or they can go chaperone themselves. It’s not just teachers on the trip. Parents go as well

Yeah, privileged parents who can get the time off from work and have childcare for their other kids.

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Anonymous wrote:Kids *love* the overnight. Cancelling the overnight part because of whatever happened last week would be a big overreaction. Worse things happen on other programs and they don't cancel the whole thing.

What’s worse than sexual assault? Murder?

sexual assault is sadly not uncommon on trips, and I think it's worse when somebody who is older is the perpetrator. There have been incidents of camp counselors assaulting minors, and here, assuming this was sexual assault, it was done by a 10-year old. But we are going to keep the programs where it was an adult committing the crime, and cancel a program where it was a little kid committing the crime?

Keep in mind, it's an optional field trip. If parents don't think it's appropriate or safe, they don't need to give permission for their kid to go.

Or they can go chaperone themselves. It’s not just teachers on the trip. Parents go as well

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Anonymous wrote:You could get all the same benefits from the trip WITHOUT making it an overnight trip. You could have the kids go from 8-5 two days in a row if you wanted. There is no reason to extend it overnight. The kids might get two hours of sleep if they are lucky (same for teachers who are not paid a dime extra for going)

Teachers should refuse to go.

Except all teachers I know love outdoor lab.

Anonymous wrote:Everyone freaking about shutting down the outdoor lab when clearly the right thing to do after an incident like this is to review current policies and procedures, and implement changes as needed. I haven’t seen a single thing that says outdoor lab has been canceled indefinitely!

Anonymous wrote:Gosh, Outdoor Lab is one of the best experiences my autistic kid has had at APS. One of the best experiences that made them feel kind of normal. I'm sorry this happened but I really hope it doesn't affect the program, which has been huge for my kid. We have done the summer camp also. It's just fantastic and the staff there is amazing.

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Anonymous wrote:The overnight trip is just bizarre. Tell me what other school district does this? Tell me why it's needed? Tell me why the whole outdoor lab funding would not be better spent on paying our staff and lowering class sizes? And fixing our decaying buildings?

I think it’s great. My home district has a similar program. Has done it for 40 years for 5th graders. Like OL, kids take a day field trip around 3rd grade and go back for an overnight. I still remember it and now my nieces are doing it. My kid also loved OL and can’t wait for 5th grade trip back. And if we’re talking about equity, many kids in APS don’t have access to these kinds of experiences. APS should keep this.

I wonder if you would have the same feelings if your child was sexually assaulted on the trip?

As a survivor of child sexual assault, I recognize there is risk in everything. As a PP said, there is far less risk of this at elementary level between students. And I work closely with my kids to help them understand these issues in age appropriate ways whether it is kids playing doctor or trusting their instincts around adults. The overall benefit of this program absolutely weighs out over possible risks IMO. And parents who feel otherwise have a choice too. But love that APS still give kids this opportunity.

This isn't about the risk of sexual assault for me. It's about the $ spent on the outdoor lab that could be spent on basics, like teaching kids to read and math. And lowering class sizes. And paying staff what they are worth so they stop leaving.

We need those things. We don't need overnight boondoggles in the woods.

The boondoggles aren't going to cover the cost of smaller class sizes and extra reading and math instructors. Teaching kids to read and teaching math is a matter of quality instruction, which one overnight field trip does not impact. Meanwhile, that field trip is one of the most memorable (and positive) experiences of many students' APS careers, especially lower-income students who do not have those opportunities outside of school.

You don't think 669,000 could go a long way to help? Love your concern for low income kids. These kids could really use lower class sizes and more focus on instruction instead of a couple field trips.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could get all the same benefits from the trip WITHOUT making it an overnight trip. You could have the kids go from 8-5 two days in a row if you wanted. There is no reason to extend it overnight. The kids might get two hours of sleep if they are lucky (same for teachers who are not paid a dime extra for going)

Teachers should refuse to go.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overnight trip is just bizarre. Tell me what other school district does this? Tell me why it's needed? Tell me why the whole outdoor lab funding would not be better spent on paying our staff and lowering class sizes? And fixing our decaying buildings?

I think it’s great. My home district has a similar program. Has done it for 40 years for 5th graders. Like OL, kids take a day field trip around 3rd grade and go back for an overnight. I still remember it and now my nieces are doing it. My kid also loved OL and can’t wait for 5th grade trip back. And if we’re talking about equity, many kids in APS don’t have access to these kinds of experiences. APS should keep this.