Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:30
Subject: Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Vis a vis merit aid, I think Trinity College is a cautionary tale. It has a very tiny merit program - 2 pct of students. It’s really in trouble because it’s completely reliant on rich families but it doesn’t have the academic profile to attract them like it perhaps once did. It ranked number one in percentage of students with families in the top 20 pct income wise. It’s really leaning on rich families and they ain’t sending their best and brightest now. Participation in test optional is very high there. So you’ve got a situation where it’s a lot of rich kids who are kind of the bottom of the prep school barrel and then a lot of low income kids. But it’s got an $800 million endowment which keeps it on life support. This school is acting like it is Bowdoin or Williams but it’s not- the academics have slipped and the demand just isn’t there. Trinity would be well advised to get some momentum going and start paying up for talented kids. It has an infrastructure and a legacy to build upon. But it’s on a downward spiral
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:29
Subject: Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Always funny to see conservatives freak out about Oberlin, Wesleyan, Vassar, and Brown because of reputations forged from the 60s to 80s when the reality is that today they are very middle of the road institutions
Ha! Have a good friend whose kid is currently at Oberlin. A very liberal kid, from a very liberal area, but dislikes Oberlin because it is So Damn Woke.
As for Reed, their students make Oberlin students look like right-wing fascists. It's not *just* the hard drugs, it's the almost religious fervor against anything that isn't insanely antifa. I know several faculty members there and it's getting difficult to teach these students anything because there is only One Right View and that is all. I am also a liberal academic and it is a problem everywhere, but even among SLACs the Oberlin and Reed students are notoriously crazy.
But sure, hey, feel free to send your kid there. Good luck to them!
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:29
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Are you capable of posting without using the word woke or wokeness? You sound ridiculous, with a weird agenda. New to this thread but one person seems to keep coming back to whine about campus wokeness, cry me a river.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Higher education should allow freedom of speech, respect differing opinions, and encourage intellectual discourse presented from a variety of perspectives. Ultra-liberal, leftist schools are intolerant of opposing thought.
And schools that fail to promote this type of environment will suffer in the marketplace. How many non-LGBTQ males who get 1500 on their SATs would choose Vassar over all their other options? Oberlin is way off the charts now, and Wesleyan has plunged as well. Haverford has declined, now tied with Richmond (which has a conservative reputation). Reed is nowhere to be found. W&L is thriving. Southern schools in general are thriving. Who wants to go to school with a bunch of angry single minded activists who can't even have a conversation but can only call you names?
Whoah you are so clearly in a suburban bubble. Vassar and oberlin are very popular with the boys in our Brooklyn crowd
That is exactly my point. They are ONLY popular with the Brooklyn crowd.
A quarter of Vassar comes from NY - so it's even a larger percentage of the domestic student population. It basically just draws from 5 states where wokeness prevails.
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/vassar-college/student-life/diversity/chart-geographic-diversity.html
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:19
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You also get access to the most comprehensive network of Oxford/Cambridge fellowships and study away of any school in the country.
It's a really good school. If it were in a suburban area or had the consortium access the others do, it'd crush the competition.
Because you really need to get out of Williamstown!
Is there departmental output data on these schools? The relative size of departments skews earnings data quite a bit. Earnings by overall college is a terrible metric that has a lot of attention now (wait, you mean a niche tech school has high mean and median earnings but actually their CS grads earn the same as another elite school's?).
+1 kind of a jock vibe in the middle of nowhere. We decided to pretty quickly leave and spend an afternoon at Six Flags New England!
While not everyone's cup of tea, it's been a top NESCAC/SLAC for eons.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:17
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:overrated - Colby and Richmond; to a lesser extent, Bowdoin
underrated - Haverford, Macalester and Wesleyan
Agree and would add Carleton.
Carleton has been the underrated but great SLAC at least since I was looking 20 years ago. I think that it's reached the point where so many people consider it underrated that it may actually be overrated
#6 isn't really underrated territory. I would personally slide Midd over it.
Why?
Comparably strong academic profile. More resources. Alumni network probably much more robust. Carleton is kind of a goofy little school in the middle of nowhere and far from centers of influence. Kind of like a Haverford or Swarthmore but removed from the eastern seaboard. Name recognition kind of light. Don’t get me wrong- I’m sure it’s filled with brilliant intellectual kids and great profs but so is Midd at this point, more so than in the past. I’ve met many Midd grads- never met a Carleton grad but my world is more east coast corporate. But that is kind of the point.
So it's not east coast corporate? Sign me up.
I feel like a truly top school should be able to launch kids in whatever direction they want to go- Wall St, academia, creative arts, medicine, etc
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:17
Subject: Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I do think that the focus of popular universities is moving west and south.
A lot of factors here but the fact that the northeastern schools have become irredeemably woke is a major one. Parents know garbage when they see it.
+1
+but my slac in so calif has done the same. I’m not sending my children there
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:12
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Amherst, Swarthmore, and Pomona should be above, or at least with, Williams at this point. Williams and Princeton have been USNWR darlings for a decade+ but people are still choosing to go to Harvard and Stanford instead for national universities and to Amherst and Swarthmore for SLACs.
How can you substantiate this?
It is imperfect but Parchment's head-to-heads have enough data to be statistically significant for these small groups. Harvard and Swarthmore would be the preferred schools in each group.
Harvard is the favorite over Princeton (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Harvard+University&with=Princeton+University) and Stanford (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Harvard+University&with=Stanford+University)
Swarthmore is preferred over Williams (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Swarthmore+College&with=Williams+College) and Amherst (https://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Swarthmore+College&with=Amherst+College)
Parchment is not a reliable resource...
+1
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:11
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:overrated - Colby and Richmond; to a lesser extent, Bowdoin
underrated - Haverford, Macalester and Wesleyan
Agree and would add Carleton.
Carleton has been the underrated but great SLAC at least since I was looking 20 years ago. I think that it's reached the point where so many people consider it underrated that it may actually be overrated
#6 isn't really underrated territory. I would personally slide Midd over it.
Why?
Comparably strong academic profile. More resources. Alumni network probably much more robust. Carleton is kind of a goofy little school in the middle of nowhere and far from centers of influence. Kind of like a Haverford or Swarthmore but removed from the eastern seaboard. Name recognition kind of light. Don’t get me wrong- I’m sure it’s filled with brilliant intellectual kids and great profs but so is Midd at this point, more so than in the past. I’ve met many Midd grads- never met a Carleton grad but my world is more east coast corporate. But that is kind of the point.
So it's not east coast corporate? Sign me up.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:09
Subject: Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I love Davidson so I would (biasedly) say it’s ranked too low.
AGREED! Davidson rocks. I'm not an alum nor do I have a student there. But, I do know multiple kids that attend or have attended. Great results and really well-rounded, bright people.
I mean, yes it’s a good school but there aren’t many schools ranked above it that aren’t at least as good or better.
You know Steph Curry went there, right?
LeBron James didn't bother with college, I guess that's the way to go?
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:09
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:overrated - Colby and Richmond; to a lesser extent, Bowdoin
underrated - Haverford, Macalester and Wesleyan
Agree and would add Carleton.
Carleton has been the underrated but great SLAC at least since I was looking 20 years ago. I think that it's reached the point where so many people consider it underrated that it may actually be overrated
#6 isn't really underrated territory. I would personally slide Midd over it.
Why?
Comparably strong academic profile. More resources. Alumni network probably much more robust. Carleton is kind of a goofy little school in the middle of nowhere and far from centers of influence. Kind of like a Haverford or Swarthmore but removed from the eastern seaboard. Name recognition kind of light. Don’t get me wrong- I’m sure it’s filled with brilliant intellectual kids and great profs but so is Midd at this point, more so than in the past. I’ve met many Midd grads- never met a Carleton grad but my world is more east coast corporate. But that is kind of the point.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 17:08
Subject: Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I do think that the focus of popular universities is moving west and south.
A lot of factors here but the fact that the northeastern schools have become irredeemably woke is a major one. Parents know garbage when they see it.
+1
Anonymous
03/15/2023 16:57
Subject: Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I love Davidson so I would (biasedly) say it’s ranked too low.
AGREED! Davidson rocks. I'm not an alum nor do I have a student there. But, I do know multiple kids that attend or have attended. Great results and really well-rounded, bright people.
I mean, yes it’s a good school but there aren’t many schools ranked above it that aren’t at least as good or better.
You know Steph Curry went there, right?
Anonymous
03/15/2023 16:56
Subject: Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Why would an anonymous person on a message board know more than the experts?
Anonymous
03/15/2023 16:55
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I prefer A/S/P over Williams but objectively, there's no denying Williams is superior. In fact, Williams consistently wins cross admit battles against Amherst and hit a much higher yield recently (59% vs Amherst and Swat's 40-45%).
Williams has a smaller student to faculty ratio, smaller classes (nearly 80% under 20 vs 65-75% at the others), better maintained facilities (Swat might be prettier but the buildings themselves aren't in the best physical shape), winter study and tutorials for truly distinctive academic experiences, the top d3 athletic program, stronger students by academic standards, and better outcomes based on most outcome oriented rankings. You also get access to the most comprehensive network of Oxford/Cambridge fellowships and study away of any school in the country.
It's a really good school. If it were in a suburban area or had the consortium access the others do, it'd crush the competition.
It's best to be careful when arguing for prestige from published yield numbers for SLACs (or any selective university with ED, for that matter). Yield numbers include those accepted through ED, for whom the yield is typically above 95%. Many selective colleges and universities recruit more than half their classes through ED, boosting their yield numbers. Schools like Chicago and Tulane are infamous for this practice. However, when one looks at yield in regular decision, where there is actual customer choice involved (and hard choices are made regarding cost/benefit), the numbers tell a different story. Here's a list of elite SLACs, with their RD yields (all these numbers are from published institutional data for class of 2026):
Wesleyan 0.19
Middlebury 0.21
Williams 0.21
Swarthmore 0.26
Haverford 0.28
Carleton 0.28
CMC 0.28
Amherst 0.29
Pomona 0.29
Bowdoin 0.41
For comparison, here are RD yields for some highly selective universities with ED:
Duke 0.44
Northwestern 0.44
Brown 0.49
Cornell 0.50
Columbia 0.50
Dartmouth 0.52
UPenn 0.58
Yieldwise, the SLACs (with the exception of Bowdoin) aren't even in the same league as the selective universities. Make of this what you will.
I think more people who ED a particular SLAC love that SLAC whereas people who ED a selective university often want to go to a high-ranked university. So I think it's wrong to think about ED in your somewhat dismissive way when it comes to SLACs. SLACs are crafting a small class of qualified people who really want to be there--that's why ED figures so strongly. I don't think the same is quite as strongly true with the larger, more generally popular selective universities.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 16:51
Subject: Re:Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:overrated - Colby and Richmond; to a lesser extent, Bowdoin
underrated - Haverford, Macalester and Wesleyan
Agree and would add Carleton.
Carleton has been the underrated but great SLAC at least since I was looking 20 years ago. I think that it's reached the point where so many people consider it underrated that it may actually be overrated
#6 isn't really underrated territory. I would personally slide Midd over it.
Why?