OP - Please continue to report back on your experience starting your 4 year old on ADHD meds, if you're able. I have a 4yr old with a rare form of epilepsy where ADHD is a common comorbidity. Our child hasn't had a formal ADHD diagnosis, but I expect it's only a matter of time. .

On the food issue, I just want to say that when my kid started a keto diet to treat her epilepsy, we did see improvements in her ADHD-like behavior. We were amazed that she was able to sit still for more than a second and actually focus on something at hand. We also saw more intellectual development and we were able to reduce one of her three epilepsy medications (which as far as I'm concerned are far more concerning than any ADHD medication, but when you need medication you need medication). I absolutely believe that what we eat matters and food can be medicine. Pre keto, the closest thing to junk food that our daughter had was tortilla chips. From time to time, she would have pedialyte, which has artificial food dyes in it, because it seemed to calm her seizure activity. I did think that her behavior was worse after having pedialytes, but I don't know if I was just looking for it becaus of what "they" say about artificial food dyes. But pedialytes aren't an option since starting keto - literally everything my child eats is made at home from real ingredients. And even with a pretty "clean" diet, my child still has severe enough ADHD like behaviors that we routinely consider whether we need to actively pursue an evaluation and consider medicating. We've been holding off in part because our pediatrician says it's too soon, and because we know that ADHD meds are tricky to get right and our daughter isn't verbal enough to be able to tell us how the medication is impacting her. But if she were more verbal, I think we would be pushing our doctors more for an evaluation and possibly medication. Becuase it's pretty obvious to us that our child's behavior is so far outside what would be more normal, even for a 4year old, and we're concerned that the behaviors are getting in the way of her ability to make more progress in the many therapies she's doing and in her preschool.

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Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

I was a camp counselor for multiple summers and the kids who drank coke and ate zebra bars and other crap often had the worst behavior. That stuff impacts little bodies just like it impacts big bodies, but it's way worse for a small bodies. It's very disregulating.

Just stop. Unless there is a serious allergy/celiac causing pain, diet does not create the serious challenges that OP’s child has.

\

Also... correlation /=/ causation. ADHD kids have impulse control issues. Are the kids eating candy bars *because* they have adhd (ie have less impulse control than other kids, so aren't attentive to what they eat, follow their parents' or other social expectations about what they eat, and gorge on candy. And adhd is genetic, so parents/households are often also struggling with impulse and organization ssues, so possible the adhd kid is growing up in a house where eating candy is normalized)? Or do they have adhd because they eat candy? A lot of scientific research indicates the latter concept is bunk.

Also agree that any anecdotal evidence is like "my kid was pep pep pep for a few hours after eating candy". Not "my kid was violent towards other children, missing developmental milestones and having 3 hour daily meltdowns at preschool every day".

There’s plenty of evidence that food dyes cause behavioral issues as well as gut issues (going back decades!). There’s also plenty of evidence that the more processed food you eat, the less healthy you will be. I’m not sure why people DON’T think these effects can extend to the brain. And other countries already ban a lot of the dyes in particular.

If my kid had behavioral issues I would remove dyes from diet and minimize processed food in addition to listening to doctors and doing meds if necessary. Not sure why everyone reflexively responds like it has to be either/or. Both make sense. I would want to remove food triggers to the extent possible if they are exacerbating the problem, meds or no meds.

But, I also don’t think there is any way to say this is what is specifically impacting this particular kid and I wish op the best in trying to help them. No, I don’t like meds but I don’t think you can just watch your kid suffer and do nothing either.

OP sorry that the medicine didn't have a more immediate effect. I agree that it may take a while to learn the right dose or medication.

However, our therapist and pediatrician also let me know that ADHD and ASD and ADHD and Bipolar have a lot of blurred lines (I am sure there are many other disorders that have overlap as well). Diagnosing little kids can be tough. But we were told that if we start meds and meds change things we may not have the right diagnosis.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

I was a camp counselor for multiple summers and the kids who drank coke and ate zebra bars and other crap often had the worst behavior. That stuff impacts little bodies just like it impacts big bodies, but it's way worse for a small bodies. It's very disregulating.

Just stop. Unless there is a serious allergy/celiac causing pain, diet does not create the serious challenges that OP’s child has.

\

Also... correlation /=/ causation. ADHD kids have impulse control issues. Are the kids eating candy bars *because* they have adhd (ie have less impulse control than other kids, so aren't attentive to what they eat, follow their parents' or other social expectations about what they eat, and gorge on candy. And adhd is genetic, so parents/households are often also struggling with impulse and organization ssues, so possible the adhd kid is growing up in a house where eating candy is normalized)? Or do they have adhd because they eat candy? A lot of scientific research indicates the latter concept is bunk.

Also agree that any anecdotal evidence is like "my kid was pep pep pep for a few hours after eating candy". Not "my kid was violent towards other children, missing developmental milestones and having 3 hour daily meltdowns at preschool every day".

My kid eats sugar, she gets hyper. THE END.

Sugar directly causes my child's hyperactivity.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

I was a camp counselor for multiple summers and the kids who drank coke and ate zebra bars and other crap often had the worst behavior. That stuff impacts little bodies just like it impacts big bodies, but it's way worse for a small bodies. It's very disregulating.

Just stop. Unless there is a serious allergy/celiac causing pain, diet does not create the serious challenges that OP’s child has.

NP. For my kid, artificial food dyes do. It's worth cutting out all artificial food dyes and artificial flavorings for 2-4 weeks to see it there's any difference. Fwiw, only one of my kids cannot have artificial food dyes, the other one isn't affected.

I think the dyes make my DDs tics much worse. No skittles please!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

I was a camp counselor for multiple summers and the kids who drank coke and ate zebra bars and other crap often had the worst behavior. That stuff impacts little bodies just like it impacts big bodies, but it's way worse for a small bodies. It's very disregulating.

Just stop. Unless there is a serious allergy/celiac causing pain, diet does not create the serious challenges that OP’s child has.

NP. For my kid, artificial food dyes do. It's worth cutting out all artificial food dyes and artificial flavorings for 2-4 weeks to see it there's any difference. Fwiw, only one of my kids cannot have artificial food dyes, the other one isn't affected.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

I was a camp counselor for multiple summers and the kids who drank coke and ate zebra bars and other crap often had the worst behavior. That stuff impacts little bodies just like it impacts big bodies, but it's way worse for a small bodies. It's very disregulating.

Just stop. Unless there is a serious allergy/celiac causing pain, diet does not create the serious challenges that OP’s child has.

\

Also... correlation /=/ causation. ADHD kids have impulse control issues. Are the kids eating candy bars *because* they have adhd (ie have less impulse control than other kids, so aren't attentive to what they eat, follow their parents' or other social expectations about what they eat, and gorge on candy. And adhd is genetic, so parents/households are often also struggling with impulse and organization ssues, so possible the adhd kid is growing up in a house where eating candy is normalized)? Or do they have adhd because they eat candy? A lot of scientific research indicates the latter concept is bunk.

Also agree that any anecdotal evidence is like "my kid was pep pep pep for a few hours after eating candy". Not "my kid was violent towards other children, missing developmental milestones and having 3 hour daily meltdowns at preschool every day".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

I was a camp counselor for multiple summers and the kids who drank coke and ate zebra bars and other crap often had the worst behavior. That stuff impacts little bodies just like it impacts big bodies, but it's way worse for a small bodies. It's very disregulating.

Just stop. Unless there is a serious allergy/celiac causing pain, diet does not create the serious challenges that OP’s child has.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

I was a camp counselor for multiple summers and the kids who drank coke and ate zebra bars and other crap often had the worst behavior. That stuff impacts little bodies just like it impacts big bodies, but it's way worse for a small bodies. It's very disregulating.

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Anonymous wrote:I am not the op or the other pp. Some of you have a lot of nerve as if ADHD is nothing more than a stereotype of hyperactivity or inattention. For children with severe ADHD the situation goes beyond that and severely impacts their lives making them miserable and unable to cope throughout the day. It also impacts the children around them. Do you think the op went to four different doctors who recommended medication because her child is "very hyper?" Do you think a child is getting kicked out of three different preschools for inattention or hyperactivity? Give me a break. The medication is likely for help with emotional regulation. That child is likely hitting, kicking, and ashing out at other children and doing the same, if not more, to caregivers who attempt to transition him away from a preferred activity. She didn't provide significant details as her child's situation because she wasn't asking for advice on whether to medicate. She was asking for others experiences. No one needs to be on this thread pontificating whether she should medicate and presuming to know more than four separate doctors.

I agree with you. A child with that behavior may also have autism. Unfortunately some research shows that autism/ADHD is less treatable w stimulants. My kid on the spectrum had periodic outbursts of aggression starting at 3 that thankfully were not daily and responded to a change of preschools. But if they continued in the new preschool or were more frequent I would have tried meds.

Clearly, a change of environmental factors can do wonders, either at school and/or at home. Establishing a solid home routine can produce incredible results.

Anonymous wrote:It is remarkable to me that no one has yet alluded to the consequences of failed attempts at “healthy living” or whatever PP is banging on about, which include greatly heightened risk of the child starting to engage in self-medication—not at 4, of course, but not that long after it. The number of people I have heard at AA meetings talking about how transformative it was when they drank for the first time at 9, 11, 13 because it was the first time their minds slowed down at all—I would not spend much time on a GAPS diet, I’ll tell you that.

Good luck OP, psychiatric meds are a bear to adjust correctly. I think you’re clearly doing the right thing to try it.

“Try” it? Why aren’t these drugs approved for a four year old?

It is remarkable to me that no one has yet alluded to the consequences of failed attempts at “healthy living” or whatever PP is banging on about, which include greatly heightened risk of the child starting to engage in self-medication—not at 4, of course, but not that long after it. The number of people I have heard at AA meetings talking about how transformative it was when they drank for the first time at 9, 11, 13 because it was the first time their minds slowed down at all—I would not spend much time on a GAPS diet, I’ll tell you that.

Good luck OP, psychiatric meds are a bear to adjust correctly. I think you’re clearly doing the right thing to try it.

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Anonymous wrote:I know this is a relatively unusual thing to do, but we have gotten 4 different opinions from 4 different doctors and they all recommend we put our 4 yo on Ritalin for ADHD. We are starting later this week. Has anyone else done this on a child so young? How did it go?

I’m excited to try it and see if it helps, but afraid to get my hopes up too high. I myself take adderall and find it immensely helpful.

I am 100% pro drugs. Better chemistry for better living!

I am 100% pro healthy living before resorting to pharma, especially for a preschool child. All of these meds have side effects. The younger the child, the more risky the side effects.

Why not first do a brain scan to actually see what you want to “fix”? Isn’t that what we do with every other part of the body?

These are the questions every parent should be asking any doctor who wants to start experimenting with various drugs on your child. It typically takes a while for them to find the right drug and the right dose. It’s a process of experimenting. Every child is different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

I see results of candy, MSG, and dairy right away. Takes 6 minutes, not 6 months. Dairy is just allergy/respiratory though.

Kids don’t get thrown out of three preschools because they’re eating candy.

Maybe . . . kid shouldn't be in preschool all day yet. Maybe kid needs more physical activity. More consequences at home. Nanny 9-1-1

Sorry, but the Naughty Step isn’t going to help a kid whose brain chemistry is working against them. Applying shame and isolation to a kid who is repeatedly trying their best and still failing to meet expectations is only going to cause anxiety and self-recrimination, and probably trigger even worse behavior because of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d try a GAPS diet for 6-12 months first.

hahahah yes, that's a perfect solution for a parent struggling with a kid who has been through 3 preschools in the last year. Just try a diet approach not based in science that takes 6 months to see non scientific results.

Most kids don’t need 6 months, usually 2 weeks will show some changes, but if done correctly the GAPS diet typically lasts around 2 years with the intent being to re-introduce some other foods at that point, if possible. It’s a relatively simple solution given that I’ve seen it work very well multiple times as long as parents stuck up to it very strictly. Obviously you want to consult a doctor or nutritionist first. It might not work for you but I wouldn’t rule it out especially at that age when you still have complete control over what they eat. The only downfall I’ve observed from it is it can be a difficult transition for a few days or weeks depending on individual and parents (are they consistent with the transition or do they just give in to tantrums over food). Also not always easy because you have to eat food from home 98% of time.