Anonymous
03/31/2023 07:09
Subject: Re:The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I can sort of see the changing the word “fat” . I don’t really agree with changing it, but it’s become such a charged insult in our society that I see the word going by the wayside similar to the R word to describe someone with developmental delays.
Changing Oompa Loompas to be “little people” instead of “little men” or “female” to be “woman” truly baffles me though. I don’t get what is offensive about saying “man” or “female”.
Gendered language, just like how teachers are supposed to say "friends" instead of "boys and girls".
They also removed references to "mothers and fathers" as in, "All the children had both their mothers and fathers with them."
Don’t know where the “friends” thing came from; it’s not actually recommended. It is condescending and misleading, bc students are not a teacher’s friends.
Was an avid reader as a kid and always uncomfortable with Dahl’s misogyny, though I didn’t know the word then. That said, I’m opposed to censorship. It would be good to see more critical discussion of Dahl. The Ooompa Loompas seemed like a slave colony to me.
Anonymous
03/22/2023 12:08
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
I mean, Dahl originally wrote the Oompa Loompas as a tribe of black African Pygmy men. He was okay with that being edited once he was made to understand how offensive that was. I wonder which changes he’d agree to if he were still around today. Also wonder whether he’d rather his books continue to live on and be enjoyed by future generations, vs becoming dusty old abandoned relics.
I think some of the new changes are pretty silly and unnecessary, but like a PP above, I’ve been thinking about how it’s a shame that I probably won’t proactively introduce my kids to some of the older books I enjoyed growing up, (Twain for example) because of the outmoded and offensive language. If they find them on their own, we can have the difficult conversations, which we’d have to have anyway. I was a huge bookworm and the only fluent English speaker in my family growing up, and my parents had no clue what I was reading, besides generally feeling that older books were probably of higher quality. I grew up with a complete blind spot and lack of understanding as to why certain words or characterizations shouldn’t be used, since I was reading them all the time. It’s taken me much longer than I would like to admit to really dismantle and rebuild my thinking on these topics.
I think some of the new changes are pretty silly and unnecessary, but like a PP above, I’ve been thinking about how it’s a shame that I probably won’t proactively introduce my kids to some of the older books I enjoyed growing up, (Twain for example) because of the outmoded and offensive language. If they find them on their own, we can have the difficult conversations, which we’d have to have anyway. I was a huge bookworm and the only fluent English speaker in my family growing up, and my parents had no clue what I was reading, besides generally feeling that older books were probably of higher quality. I grew up with a complete blind spot and lack of understanding as to why certain words or characterizations shouldn’t be used, since I was reading them all the time. It’s taken me much longer than I would like to admit to really dismantle and rebuild my thinking on these topics.
Anonymous
03/21/2023 15:00
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Clearly, the owners of the Dahl collection want future generations of kids to read his books. Which would begin to decline for all the reasons they are editing now. So the choices are really, let his books die or make very minor changes to make them not seem outdated and offensive. Doesn’t seem complicated to me, as I do enjoy his humor but also did have a chat about the language we use as my kids started reading them.
Anonymous
03/20/2023 00:09
Subject: Re:The censorship of Roald Dahl
Mildred D. Taylor wrote a really good essay explaining why she chose to use the authentic language of her childhood in her books even though it makes people uncomfortable. Her books are "unfashionable" since ppl would rather read the absolutely unrealistic sentimental fiction promoting diversity like the VanderBeekers (I. love those books but its like Sesame Street version of Harlem) rather then Roll of Thunder hear my cry which used to be required reading for kids back in the 80's-90's but doesn't fit into the narrative of either the left or the right.
In my writing, I have always attempted to tell the truth. Because the books are read by children and young adults, I sometimes have been asked to “water down” the telling of my stories, to whitewash history, in essence, to falsify history.
In order for certain reprint rights to be sold, I sometimes have been requested by those wanting to reprint my work to delete all objectionable language. My publishser and I have refused to do that. There have been calls to ban my books because of the words I use and the incidents I portray.
When my books were first published in the 1970’s, people understood the reality of the words which were used and why they were used. They understood the honesty of the hisotry, which was still then in the making. They understood the necessity for the truth.
Recently, however, there has been a backlash of parents, minority parents included, and educators who do not want children to read books such as mine. Some of the people who voice these opinions do not like the “n” word being used, because they believe it brings too much pain to a child reading such a word.
But how can readers understand the true history of the past or the need for a civil rights movement unless they have begun to understand the pain of those who suffered through slavery, discrimination, and segregation? How can readers feel the pain if I pretty up the way things were?
What I least like to do is write down words that hurt. I cringe at the thought of any child being hurt by my words, but as much as it hurts me to write words of pain, I know that they must be written, for they are truthful words about the time I write.
They are painful to me to write and they are painful to those who read them, but they are needed for the full understanding of what life was like for African-Americans before the Civil Rights Movement.
I remember what it was like. I remember the pain of what life was like and I want others to recognize that pain in order for all generations to appreciate why there was a Civil Rights Movement and to appreciate the great freedom of rights and opportunities we enjoy today.
In my writing, I have always attempted to tell the truth. Because the books are read by children and young adults, I sometimes have been asked to “water down” the telling of my stories, to whitewash history, in essence, to falsify history.
In order for certain reprint rights to be sold, I sometimes have been requested by those wanting to reprint my work to delete all objectionable language. My publishser and I have refused to do that. There have been calls to ban my books because of the words I use and the incidents I portray.
When my books were first published in the 1970’s, people understood the reality of the words which were used and why they were used. They understood the honesty of the hisotry, which was still then in the making. They understood the necessity for the truth.
Recently, however, there has been a backlash of parents, minority parents included, and educators who do not want children to read books such as mine. Some of the people who voice these opinions do not like the “n” word being used, because they believe it brings too much pain to a child reading such a word.
But how can readers understand the true history of the past or the need for a civil rights movement unless they have begun to understand the pain of those who suffered through slavery, discrimination, and segregation? How can readers feel the pain if I pretty up the way things were?
What I least like to do is write down words that hurt. I cringe at the thought of any child being hurt by my words, but as much as it hurts me to write words of pain, I know that they must be written, for they are truthful words about the time I write.
They are painful to me to write and they are painful to those who read them, but they are needed for the full understanding of what life was like for African-Americans before the Civil Rights Movement.
I remember what it was like. I remember the pain of what life was like and I want others to recognize that pain in order for all generations to appreciate why there was a Civil Rights Movement and to appreciate the great freedom of rights and opportunities we enjoy today.
Anonymous
03/19/2023 23:35
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Off-topic, maybe, but Huck Finn is profoundly anti-racist. Jim is a hero who sacrifices his one chance at freedom to save Huck's life.
What to do about the n-word I can't say, but I hope we don't have to sacrifice the book.
What to do about the n-word I can't say, but I hope we don't have to sacrifice the book.
Anonymous
03/15/2023 22:37
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Has anyone else been to the Roald Dahl Museum in the UK?I thought it was amazing.
Anonymous
03/14/2023 13:09
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Publishers don’t seem relevant anymore. They don’t produce new books people want to read, and now they are censoring the old books.
It’s another win for self-publishing. Self-publishing can mean the authors own their own publishing company. You can’t always tell it’s self-published.
Is it possible to buy the original books elsewhere when a publisher censors?
Most self-published authors are using KDP (Kindle Direct Publushing), which is Amazon and you could say the Big 5 is the Big 6, with Amazon added. They aren’t self-publishing…they’re publishing with Amazon.
Traditional publishing is bigger than ever. Have you noticed your Target has a book section that keeps growing? That B&N has record profits? That BOTM and special edition book boxes are wildly popular?
Amazon distributes. They do not publish. As a self-publisher, I own my ISBNs, I am the publisher of record, and I distribute through many companies, not just Amazon.
Amazon is not my publisher.
Anonymous
03/01/2023 15:34
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Dahl was a horrible antisemite and many of his villains are supposed to be Jewish characters. Like Witches are based on the libel story of jews in europe kidnapping christian babies for blood. Maybe he should be censored.
Anonymous
03/01/2023 15:13
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I think the point is that future generations will not be reading Roald Dahl as he intended. They'll be reading a watered down, bland version and will never have the thrill and joy of reading his original work.
Fwiw I think there is a HUGE difference from Disney saying - I'm going to do a re-telling of old fairy tales. They're not watering it down and saying by Hans Christian Andersen - which is what the Dahl estate is doing.
Yes, I agree with previous points about not preserving the original work as the author intended and the unique nature of the censorship going on here. Dahl said years ago he did not want publishers changing his words (The Guardian reported this). Changing language=changing meaning. Even with the compromise and publishing both the originals and the doctored versions, Penguin/Puffin may not push to get the originals out there either. They are being advised by a group called "Inclusive Minds". The publisher will probably spend a lot more time marketing and distributing the rewritten versions. Dahl fans had better hold on to their printed copies!
Worth reading: https://raisingamericans.substack.com/p/respect-the-oompa-loompas
And one more thing -- I agree there is a real lack of respect for the historical record. Orwell comes up a lot these days, but a quote to consider...
"This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, soundtracks, cartoons, photographs – to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance."– George Orwell
1984. Part 1, Chapter 4. The process of changing history and the past, it was Winston’s job to falsify the records.
Anonymous
02/28/2023 18:07
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Person 1: No Roald Dahl books in my house.
Person 2: YOU WANT TO BAN BOOKS!
Person 1 is just parenting. They are making a choice about what they want in their house.
Person 2 can do the same thing. If you want to scoop up The Witches in current format, know yourself out. If you ware made that a publisher is going to make a business decision to edit the books, don't buy them.
I think the point is that future generations will not be reading Roald Dahl as he intended. They'll be reading a watered down, bland version and will never have the thrill and joy of reading his original work.
Eh, the old books still exist and those seeking the thrill and wonder of reasons about fat will be able to do so. Future generations can even choose to bring back the original language. Or even publish Road Dahls adult books as kids books on day. It’s up to them.
Netflix is “disneyfying” the library. Probably extending the copyrights in the books so they can make money. Go back and read all the original fairy tales written by Hans Christian Andersen. Talk about thrill and wonder…
Fwiw I think there is a HUGE difference from Disney saying - I'm going to do a re-telling of old fairy tales. They're not watering it down and saying by Hans Christian Andersen - which is what the Dahl estate is doing.
Anonymous
02/28/2023 11:52
Subject: Re:The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:It's pretty rich to read Huck Funn to a 5 year old and then complain about the language. WTF - if you're going to read a book to your kid, make sure it's the correct age if you are a pearl clutcher.
I don't think the PP had a grasp on the point of Huck Finn when it was written.The book is supposed to be about race and identity. It's supposed to challenge the reader and explore bias. It was controversial in its time, as it was intended.
Anonymous
02/28/2023 10:35
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Person 1: No Roald Dahl books in my house.
Person 2: YOU WANT TO BAN BOOKS!
Person 1 is just parenting. They are making a choice about what they want in their house.
Person 2 can do the same thing. If you want to scoop up The Witches in current format, know yourself out. If you ware made that a publisher is going to make a business decision to edit the books, don't buy them.
I think the point is that future generations will not be reading Roald Dahl as he intended. They'll be reading a watered down, bland version and will never have the thrill and joy of reading his original work.
Eh, the old books still exist and those seeking the thrill and wonder of reasons about fat will be able to do so. Future generations can even choose to bring back the original language. Or even publish Road Dahls adult books as kids books on day. It’s up to them.
Netflix is “disneyfying” the library. Probably extending the copyrights in the books so they can make money. Go back and read all the original fairy tales written by Hans Christian Andersen. Talk about thrill and wonder…
I would not describe either Hans Christian Andersen or the brothers Grimm and providing "thrill and wonder."
Read what you want to your kids, but understand that your kids won't experience your childhood favorites the way you did or classics the way children in the 19th century did. We bring our whole lived experience to the experience of reading/listening, and what seemed normal and good in an era with different values can seem creepy or bent today. That's not always bad -- a little discomfort can be good for the soul -- but examine why you want to impose this on a kid.
Anonymous
02/27/2023 08:16
Subject: Re:The censorship of Roald Dahl
It's pretty rich to read Huck Funn to a 5 year old and then complain about the language. WTF - if you're going to read a book to your kid, make sure it's the correct age if you are a pearl clutcher.
Anonymous
02/27/2023 02:37
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity, has Twain been censored? I have not read that his books had, though clearly the audience and demand for Twain and Dahl are quite different
I was thinking about this too when the initial kerfluffle arose re. Dahl. I remember trying to read Huck Finn to my kid when she was 5. I thanked the stars she couldn’t read yet because there were so many N-bombs to navigate. Somehow, I hadn’t remembered the book in that way, but reading it aloud made me realize how gross the original language is. It made me also surprised to realize that I’m ok with re-writes if the original language is casually offensive — especially for children’s lit. Kids can wait until they have better analysis skills and context - they’re free to go back and re-read offensive originals when they’re older.
Anonymous
02/26/2023 19:22
Subject: The censorship of Roald Dahl
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Person 1: No Roald Dahl books in my house.
Person 2: YOU WANT TO BAN BOOKS!
Person 1 is just parenting. They are making a choice about what they want in their house.
Person 2 can do the same thing. If you want to scoop up The Witches in current format, know yourself out. If you ware made that a publisher is going to make a business decision to edit the books, don't buy them.
I think the point is that future generations will not be reading Roald Dahl as he intended. They'll be reading a watered down, bland version and will never have the thrill and joy of reading his original work.
Seriously what are you whining about? The originals will still be available.
Some of these responses are from before the compromise was announced.
Yep. PP seems clueless.