Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:39
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Calls for thread deletion are ridiculous. Who knows if this is even a real scenario happening to OP’s friend. It is definitely a scenario happening somewhere to someone at any given time. Does that mean we can never have a conversation about what birth defects would justify termination of pregnancy in our minds?
🙄
I agree.
While I am pro choice (which I stated on page 1), this thread brings out some uncomfortable arguments / examples, such as the way the nazis killed people just for being born differentially-abled.
But if we truly believe in our causes, isnt it healthy to test our beliefs? In theory, shouldn't a good argument make us stronger once its settled?
I do not believe this uncomfortable thread should be deleted. Just the opposite.
And let's be clear - the Nazis, as agents of the STATE, did this. Same with involuntary sterilization - it was done by the government. That's very different than a woman and her family making a choice they believe is best for them.
No one is defending the nazis. Can you acknowledge the end result is the same?
Or is that truth too uncomfortable for you?
The end result is not the same. The state is not forcing you to terminate a pregnancy or forcing you to have a baby based on the state's beliefs about the ideal society. People are making choices for themselves and their families. That truth is not at all uncomfortable for me.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:32
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Calls for thread deletion are ridiculous. Who knows if this is even a real scenario happening to OP’s friend. It is definitely a scenario happening somewhere to someone at any given time. Does that mean we can never have a conversation about what birth defects would justify termination of pregnancy in our minds?
🙄
I agree.
While I am pro choice (which I stated on page 1), this thread brings out some uncomfortable arguments / examples, such as the way the nazis killed people just for being born differentially-abled.
But if we truly believe in our causes, isnt it healthy to test our beliefs? In theory, shouldn't a good argument make us stronger once its settled?
I do not believe this uncomfortable thread should be deleted. Just the opposite.
And let's be clear - the Nazis, as agents of the STATE, did this. Same with involuntary sterilization - it was done by the government. That's very different than a woman and her family making a choice they believe is best for them.
No one is defending the nazis. Can you acknowledge the end result is the same?
Or is that truth too uncomfortable for you?
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:13
Subject: Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Before birth control, killing newborns whose birth was badly timed was common.
And will become more common if abortion is not accessible.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:10
Subject: Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Before birth control, killing newborns whose birth was badly timed was common.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:08
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of you would opt for euthanasia (if it were available) if your child had a brain injury…as in brilliant Johnny took a bad fall from his bike, and his IQ drops from potential-Harvard lawyer to someone who can only have a simple job. I mean he won’t have the intellectual abilities of the limbless child (who we’ve already decided is a no-go). I guess what I’m trying to figure out is where will you be drawing the line? Hearing all this about what makes a child fit to live…Johnny is now going to use up financial resources that your second high IQ child could use for law school…do you really want to tell Sally no if Johnny’s highest career aspiration is to be a grocery bagger? I mean he costs a lot of money with no return on investment! The horror!
Really, this is how some of you sound.
You're the only person talking about killing a child. The rest of us are discussing terminating a pregnancy.
Nope, plenty of people have talked about aborting a baby. If it’s a baby, you are, in fact, killing a child.
Fine, I don’t really care. Call it what you want. The child doesn’t have the right to reside in my body and use my body for its survival.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:07
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of you would opt for euthanasia (if it were available) if your child had a brain injury…as in brilliant Johnny took a bad fall from his bike, and his IQ drops from potential-Harvard lawyer to someone who can only have a simple job. I mean he won’t have the intellectual abilities of the limbless child (who we’ve already decided is a no-go). I guess what I’m trying to figure out is where will you be drawing the line? Hearing all this about what makes a child fit to live…Johnny is now going to use up financial resources that your second high IQ child could use for law school…do you really want to tell Sally no if Johnny’s highest career aspiration is to be a grocery bagger? I mean he costs a lot of money with no return on investment! The horror!
Really, this is how some of you sound.
You're the only person talking about killing a child. The rest of us are discussing terminating a pregnancy.
Nope, plenty of people have talked about aborting a baby. If it’s a baby, you are, in fact, killing a child.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:05
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of you would opt for euthanasia (if it were available) if your child had a brain injury…as in brilliant Johnny took a bad fall from his bike, and his IQ drops from potential-Harvard lawyer to someone who can only have a simple job. I mean he won’t have the intellectual abilities of the limbless child (who we’ve already decided is a no-go). I guess what I’m trying to figure out is where will you be drawing the line? Hearing all this about what makes a child fit to live…Johnny is now going to use up financial resources that your second high IQ child could use for law school…do you really want to tell Sally no if Johnny’s highest career aspiration is to be a grocery bagger? I mean he costs a lot of money with no return on investment! The horror!
Really, this is how some of you sound.
You're the only person talking about killing a child. The rest of us are discussing terminating a pregnancy.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:04
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My ten year old cousin has Downs. Reading these comments makes me wonder what some of you really think about her when you see her walking down the street.
Oh please. I have a cousin with Down Syndrome. She is now 38 and she's always been a normal part of our family. I still would have leaned heavily towards terminating my own pregnancy if the baby was diagnosed with Down Syndrome.
Is it a baby or a fetus?
Fetus, unborn baby, parasite, I’m not picky about terminology.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:02
Subject: Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
I have a child with special needs. I feel that my religious beliefs make this all easier
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:02
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My ten year old cousin has Downs. Reading these comments makes me wonder what some of you really think about her when you see her walking down the street.
Oh please. I have a cousin with Down Syndrome. She is now 38 and she's always been a normal part of our family. I still would have leaned heavily towards terminating my own pregnancy if the baby was diagnosed with Down Syndrome.
Is it a baby or a fetus?
Anonymous
02/02/2023 20:01
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Calls for thread deletion are ridiculous. Who knows if this is even a real scenario happening to OP’s friend. It is definitely a scenario happening somewhere to someone at any given time. Does that mean we can never have a conversation about what birth defects would justify termination of pregnancy in our minds?
🙄
I agree.
While I am pro choice (which I stated on page 1), this thread brings out some uncomfortable arguments / examples, such as the way the nazis killed people just for being born differentially-abled.
But if we truly believe in our causes, isnt it healthy to test our beliefs? In theory, shouldn't a good argument make us stronger once its settled?
I do not believe this uncomfortable thread should be deleted. Just the opposite.
Comparing the state making decisions for families to families making decisions for their own families is ridiculous.
In either case though, society is effectively rid of differentially-abled people. The end result is the same.
No, because different families make different choices, as you can see throughout this thread.
Well, we had someone a couple posts up stating that parents are cruel when they decide to let a disabled child live instead of terminating. I’m with the PP who gets the sense that a lot of these people would prefer that the disabled weren’t visible at all.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 19:59
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:My ten year old cousin has Downs. Reading these comments makes me wonder what some of you really think about her when you see her walking down the street.
Oh please. I have a cousin with Down Syndrome. She is now 38 and she's always been a normal part of our family. I still would have leaned heavily towards terminating my own pregnancy if the baby was diagnosed with Down Syndrome.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 19:54
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Calls for thread deletion are ridiculous. Who knows if this is even a real scenario happening to OP’s friend. It is definitely a scenario happening somewhere to someone at any given time. Does that mean we can never have a conversation about what birth defects would justify termination of pregnancy in our minds?
🙄
I agree.
While I am pro choice (which I stated on page 1), this thread brings out some uncomfortable arguments / examples, such as the way the nazis killed people just for being born differentially-abled.
But if we truly believe in our causes, isnt it healthy to test our beliefs? In theory, shouldn't a good argument make us stronger once its settled?
I do not believe this uncomfortable thread should be deleted. Just the opposite.
Comparing the state making decisions for families to families making decisions for their own families is ridiculous.
In either case though, society is effectively rid of differentially-abled people. The end result is the same.
No, because different families make different choices, as you can see throughout this thread.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 19:49
Subject: Re:Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I wonder how many of you would opt for euthanasia (if it were available) if your child had a brain injury…as in brilliant Johnny took a bad fall from his bike, and his IQ drops from potential-Harvard lawyer to someone who can only have a simple job. I mean he won’t have the intellectual abilities of the limbless child (who we’ve already decided is a no-go). I guess what I’m trying to figure out is where will you be drawing the line? Hearing all this about what makes a child fit to live…Johnny is now going to use up financial resources that your second high IQ child could use for law school…do you really want to tell Sally no if Johnny’s highest career aspiration is to be a grocery bagger? I mean he costs a lot of money with no return on investment! The horror!
Really, this is how some of you sound.
Most parents will care for a child if they develop disability later in life (ie after birth) and it will still be very hard. Just like we care for other family members who become disabled due to accident, genes or illness. Why would you bring a child into the world if they have severe disability? That is cruel. Unless you have so much money that you can ensure a great standard of living and care for them for the rest of their natural life.
Do you care if they are sexually abused by their caregiver? Will you get their tubes tied or give them a vasectomy?
Brilliant Johnny having an accident is terrible bad luck
Severely disabled from birth Jenny has the bad luck of having cruel parents.
So, parents who choose to bring a disabled child into the world are now cruel? Is that what you think when you see a family with a disabled child? I have no words.
Anonymous
02/02/2023 19:45
Subject: Would you have a baby with no arms / no legs?
Read “Far From the Tree.” It has honest accounts from parents raising children with severe disabilities. Their feelings are very complex.