Anonymous wrote:

You mention funeral costs. Once you have financial POA, you can put aside $15,000 of their assets in a funeral trust. This is allowed by Medicaid and is part of the spend down. You shouldn’t have to be worried about paying for their funeral or burial expenses out of your own pocket.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many insist on bullying their parents into doing what's best for them and not their parents. I'd much prefer to stay in my home and I'd support my parents doing so.

That’s not the case here but reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit.

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many insist on bullying their parents into doing what's best for them and not their parents. I'd much prefer to stay in my home and I'd support my parents doing so.

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how many insist on bullying their parents into doing what's best for them and not their parents. I'd much prefer to stay in my home and I'd support my parents doing so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks in their 80’s with a $100K mortgage they can’t service, secured by a dwelling that is falling down around their ears, are not in a good place.

Hard as it may be, you should consider the admonition to “put on your own oxygen mask first.” If you and your husband’s siblings get dragged down with his parents everybody loses.

I wonder if you found a brand new place of manageable size, perhaps in a planned community with some amenities, you might be able to convince them that they’d be “trading up.” This might be more effective than convincing them their sentiment-laden home isn’t suitable any more. They bought a good place. They enjoyed it. They built up equity. Now is the time to cash out and enjoy the fruits of their prudence. Bonus points if they already know somebody who lives there or near there.

I think there is software that you can use to generate illustrations of how their favorite chairs, etc., would look in the new place.

Another suggestion before selling would be to contact a lawyer who is a member of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys to perhaps incorporate Medicaid planning into any transaction. A residence that a person intends to return to (however unlikely it is that that would occur) is treated very differently than a bag of cash or something jointly owned. Assets can also move between spouses to qualify for nursing home help. I know this isn’t on the table right now, but given their age it could come up any time.

As someone going through, same, the bolded will not helps. There is no rationale here. We have offered my parent FIVE, count them FIVE viable solutions including a home where they are that we own (so close that my mother’s “I don’t like the neighbors statement is ridiculous because she (a) never sees her own neighbors and (b) the house is about a mile from them in the SAME COMMUNITY), a downsize of their choice in their own community, a home we own as well in our community, a condo in our community nearby the home we own, or even the large walk out, bright 1200 square foot basement space in our own home complete with 3/4 kitchen and a 12 seat home theater. They act like in all situations, they will be slumming it. My parents are now out of money and almost totally incontinent. Both are housebound because they no longer can drive. My father would be stuck in bed if he didn’t rely on my disabled mother who can barely walk to get him up and dress him, for which she is deeply resentful. Both their doctors have tried talking to them. My father’s doctor literally screamed at him when he refused a walker and told him that when he falls, he will break a hip and end up in a nursing home, and no, he will not help my father leave the facility at that point. That’s the ONLY thing that got my father to try a walker.

So to think you can convince irrational people to do anything, is, well, irrational.

You think the medical community will help you? My cousin is dealing with her irrational 98 year old mother. The hospital wanted to send her home after an incident when she now needs round the clock care. Social worker went into bullying mode “Why can’t YOU do it? Surely there is room for her in YOUR house. No bathroom on the main floor? Why we have bedside commodes” etc etc. My cousin had to repeat like a mantra “I recently had a stroke. I cannot care for her full time” until they finally started helping my cousin find practical solutions at area facilities. My aunt at this point has only social security and my cousins can only afford part-time help. Before the fall, my aunt could be alone for periods of time because my cousin and her husband were 10 minutes away. BTW I experienced same sort of bullying. It’s a ‘thing’ now.

OP, again, do NOT get yourself into this UNLESS your in-laws are asking for and are willing to engage.

When elderly are in such bad shape that they end up in hospital. Then you call the hospital, say you can't pick them up, they have nowhere to go, and room will be made for them in a nursing home. Assets will be used to pay until they're indigent and from then on, Medicaid will kick in.

It's what happens to thousands of older people all over America

Anonymous wrote:As someone who is dealing with similar? They will suck you both dry and not care about any of your futures because they are so focused on their childish feeeelllllinnnnnnggggggssss that they won't face reality. I tried and all we have for it is more demands. I went from loving my parents to resenting their stubbornness to now simply not caring. I'm sure I do deep down, but I can't find that feeling right now.

If you have power of attorney, you have nothing. All you can do is put your foot down before you are both destroyed financially and emotionally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a frustrating, stressful situation going on with my in laws. This will be long as it is complicated, but I would love some advice from anyone who may have been there before (my condolences).

* In laws are in early 80s, with moderate health problems, but can live independently and safely drive. They’re mentally competent but there are a couple signs of early dementia for one of them and they have become deeply sentimental at this stage in life. DH’s sibling lives nearby and regularly checks on them. We live across the country.

* They are terrible with finances — making poor “investments,” buying collectibles on eBay, going out to fancy dinners because keeping up with appearances is very important to them. They owe $100,000 on their mortgage. They are almost out of money. FIL works a few days a week for pocket money. DH and his sibling deposit a modest amount of money to their account on a semi-regular basis.

* They are deeply, emotionally connected to their large ramshackle house. They are terrible about upkeep and have always cut corners or done failed DIY projects. The house needs $100,000 in repairs to make it sellable/more livable, $200,000 to make it competitively sellable/more permanently livable. It somehow assessed for $600,000 (large lot with water access on coastal state). Even with the lower end of repair work done it would likely be a developer buy where the house would be torn down.

* They are in denial about their circumstances, and their plan is to stay in their house until the end of their days. They joke that will have to take them out feet first, even though, like the majority of people, especially those with health problems in their senior years, they will likely require assisted care at some point. For one, that could be within the next couple of years; the other could probably live independently for maybe 10 years.

* ALL of their problems could be solved by selling which would let them move into a smaller, safer, newer home; pay off their mortgage debt; and enjoy the remaining cash flow from the sale to help see them through the end of their days (or most of them).

* They absolutely refuse to sell. But the house is in such poor shape that they don’t qualify for a reverse mortgage. They could take out a home equity loan but wouldn’t be able to make the payments on it because they would need so much work done, and it also doesn’t help with daily expenses the way a reverse mortgage could.

* DH’s sibling just bought a house and isn’t in the position to give them the money they need to make the repairs. DH and I could make their home equity loan payments for them, but it would mean we’d have to stop making contributions to our 401k, for who knows how long. We are also saving to buy our own home and have kids who need to go to college one day, so it’s not ideal. DH is willing to do it, but I am not.

* Getting them to sell is the best choice for everyone of course. It buys them financial freedom, gives them a safer place to live, and cash to work with. But they are dead set on staying, even at the risk of continuing to minimally improve their living situation while worsening their financial situation, and even if their continued bad choices keep money out of the pockets of their children who keep financially helping them.

Outside of eventually having to get POAs to take over handling this horrible property and their finances when they eventually get too elderly to manage it, is there anything else we could possibly do? I have suggested that DH and his father meet with a financial planner to have a third party show them how selling would be a positive and staying would be a negative. I also suggested that he try to set up a meeting with a family counselor who can help walk through some of these very deep, emotional connections they are feeling to the house, as the reality of their situation just isn’t sinking in. He is game but needs to talk to his parents about both and doesn’t know if they will buy in to either. In the meantime, he is wracking his brain to see if there’s any other financial way for his parents to stay in their beloved (dilapidated) house but I truly think there’s no other option. Either they sell, or they stay and stay consumed with underfunded repairs they will constantly be in debt for. And eventually we will be too.

If you do not yet own your primary residence, and 401ks and 529s are not fully funded, then you CAN NOT afford to help financially. You have to bring DH around to grasp this. It is incredibly poor judgement to put your own financial future and the future of your children at risk in order to fund your in-laws' preferences. It would be a different call if you were using the funds for groceries or critical medications or to keep the heat on.

Anonymous wrote:Folks in their 80’s with a $100K mortgage they can’t service, secured by a dwelling that is falling down around their ears, are not in a good place.

Hard as it may be, you should consider the admonition to “put on your own oxygen mask first.” If you and your husband’s siblings get dragged down with his parents everybody loses.

I wonder if you found a brand new place of manageable size, perhaps in a planned community with some amenities, you might be able to convince them that they’d be “trading up.” This might be more effective than convincing them their sentiment-laden home isn’t suitable any more. They bought a good place. They enjoyed it. They built up equity. Now is the time to cash out and enjoy the fruits of their prudence. Bonus points if they already know somebody who lives there or near there.

I think there is software that you can use to generate illustrations of how their favorite chairs, etc., would look in the new place.

Another suggestion before selling would be to contact a lawyer who is a member of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys to perhaps incorporate Medicaid planning into any transaction. A residence that a person intends to return to (however unlikely it is that that would occur) is treated very differently than a bag of cash or something jointly owned. Assets can also move between spouses to qualify for nursing home help. I know this isn’t on the table right now, but given their age it could come up any time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks in their 80’s with a $100K mortgage they can’t service, secured by a dwelling that is falling down around their ears, are not in a good place.

Hard as it may be, you should consider the admonition to “put on your own oxygen mask first.” If you and your husband’s siblings get dragged down with his parents everybody loses.

I wonder if you found a brand new place of manageable size, perhaps in a planned community with some amenities, you might be able to convince them that they’d be “trading up.” This might be more effective than convincing them their sentiment-laden home isn’t suitable any more. They bought a good place. They enjoyed it. They built up equity. Now is the time to cash out and enjoy the fruits of their prudence. Bonus points if they already know somebody who lives there or near there.

I think there is software that you can use to generate illustrations of how their favorite chairs, etc., would look in the new place.

Another suggestion before selling would be to contact a lawyer who is a member of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys to perhaps incorporate Medicaid planning into any transaction. A residence that a person intends to return to (however unlikely it is that that would occur) is treated very differently than a bag of cash or something jointly owned. Assets can also move between spouses to qualify for nursing home help. I know this isn’t on the table right now, but given their age it could come up any time.

It's just not that easy to convince people who want to stay in their home, that they should leave - even if you find them the absolute perfect place, where they would have a better quality of life.

Really? Say honest? No BS?

Gosh, then, I guess it’s not worth even trying. Because staying there is such a workable result, as OP explained at length.

Be as sarcastic as you want, but the fact is that OP can't MAKE them move if they don't want to. And suggesting that it's simply a matter of finding them a better house, then them being like "OH WOW SURE YES LET'S MOVE" is pie in the sky. Ask me how I know!

80 year olds don't want to leave their house. Even if it makes their lives worse to be there. My suggestion would be that you gird yourselves for the emergency that's going to happen at some point and force this decision in a crisis. Because that's where this is heading.

Maybe you all are more persuasive with your beloved parents and in laws than I am my sibling have managed to be.