OP's friend could be an unreliable narrator with respect to her husband's shortcomings. That's not necessarily the case. But the fury with which some commenters avoided that possibility was a little surprising to me. The difference of opinion didn't surprise me, but the heat did.

OP I think coming here you are going to get people who are REALLY dug in on their own narratives about the problems in their own marriage and overrelate to your friend or her husband and their whole life view revolves around this.

I would suggest that you actually have a different problem. It isn't about this marriage, it is about the fact that your friend is so focused on her husband being terrible so far after the fact. I had a friend who would just laser in on a wrong and it was ALL she talked about nonstop, sometimes for years. She would rehash drama until the cows came home. At some point it becomes very difficult to hear people talk about the same problem they've been talking about for years/months without doing anything to help themselves.

You have a problem because your friend talks about this so much that it has become the thing you talk about and you disagree with her which makes listening to her complaining about it in a supportive way even harder.

I personally would say this to her, "Susie, you know I love you, but I think your anger at Brad has become really all consuming and it isn't healthy. You have to learn to put the past behind you, not just for you, but for your kids."

I grew up in a situation where my divorced parents hated each other and I just will not entertain mindless endless bashing of an ex because IMO that type of poisonous venting, if really left unchecked, creates an incredibly toxic coparenting relationship and no matter who I'm friends with, when there is a divorce I'm always thinking of the kids, probably because no one ever thought about me.

But regardless you should say something or slowly distance because you either care enough to try to get your friend to change, or you just can't be around someone who is toxically complaining about something 24/7 for MONTHS.

OP, no one knows anything about the marriage. It's so removed because it's hearsay from you. Thought this was about you and what you should do for your friend, not a judgment on their marriage. The marriage is dead. There is nothing to review anymore. You decided to make it a judgment on their marriage or post marriage and since neither of these people is here, no one really has anything to say about it. You got a lot of good comments on what to do as a friend to help your friend move on and you ignored all of them. If "see a therapist" is what you got out of it, then that's great. That's a step forward. But your perpetual judgment on the marriage and whether or not he was a hardworking dude or not is what brought out all the troll comments and why everyone thinks you are just the ex-husband. You don't know and no one here knows. It's irrelevant to helping your friend move forward.

Anonymous wrote:

OP are you a guy ? I’m surprised a woman would write a post like this

I am a woman and could have written something VERY similar to this about my ex SIL. I don't know if this is her perspective now 12-18 months post separation but I would be surprised if it wasn't.

Anonymous wrote:I feel like if the OP in any thread can't actually relate to their question and make any headway Jeff should just delete threads after 10 interactions. There must be some metric to stop the trolling and lying that goes on here. It's obvious OP is not a friend to this woman and is just trying to stir up anti woman hate. Don't feed the troll.

OP here. It's really fascinating how if the facts that I present don't align with some narrative that men are shitty partners in marriage, I must either not be a friend or that I'm trolling. A lot of you are REALLY invested in this notion and are reacting strongly to any suggestion to the contrary.

I've said from the start that I don't know the full story. What I do know is when they were together, I always saw a highly engaged partner and husband. He worked from home most of the time, even pre-pandemic while she commuted to an on-site workplace. He was usually the ones at the school events with the kids, did the meals when we ate at their house, etc. So I was always a bit surprised to hear her complaining about carrying more of the "emotional labor" and things like that. But, again, maybe I only saw the highlights.

I do know that a couple of years later, he at least outwardly projects having his shit more together. During the divorce, I tried to maintain relationships with both of them, but was more my friend's confident and kept the relationship with him more superficial, mainly driven by our kids' friendship. The only constant seems to be my friend's misery. It's almost like she's aghast that he isn't miserable. It's strange and I don't know how to respond except to encourage therapy and trying to move on with her own life and stop letting him live rent-free in her head. Someone said sounds depressed -- that could be as well. I'll add consulting a psychiatrist to my advice.

Anyway, I guess I'll go back to being a shitty friend for someone who's been in my life for 20-plus years. Thanks, all. I'm out.

Anonymous wrote:NP. I am also convinced OP is writing about his ex-W. Same aggrieved, aggressive writing style as a recently divorced guy on DCUM.

+1 if not the exW, then Op hates his friend. The guy that you are talking about (you?) was a bad partner, but he may be good in other areas (i.e. parenting, fitness, etc.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always assume there are a lot of shitty dynamics at play that get you to a place where a women is investing so much energy into her household and a man investing none. It’s usually where a woman is investing way more time and effort into the household than her kids reasonably need, and he is pulling himself away from the household than us reasonable healthy (and not a reflection of his capabilities). It’s usually because there are already bigger issues in the marriage and they’re both subconsciously trying to make a point and digging their heels into their positions.

Regardless, I think women who convince themselves that all intense hard work and investment into their family is the only reason their kids are successful and their husbands career is going well…. I think those women are deluding themselves. But once you drink the koolaid and dive head first into that life, I guess that’s what you‘ve got to believe to sleep at night.

Hmm yeah OK. Let me know which one of these functions that I do exclusively is "way more time and effort" than my household reasonably needs:

- paying the mortgage
- paying all bills
- 80% of the childcare by time
- bathing children
- buying children's clothes
- 95% of the cooking
- 95% of the cleaning
- organizing house cleaners
- organizing all aspects of home maitenance
- all doctor & dentist appointments
- health insurance and medical bills
- obtaining an IEP and annual meetings and ensuring it is implemented
- all kid laundry
- coordinating kid social life
- camps
- kid contact with grandparents
- holiday planning, decorating, gift purchasing, relatives, meal cooking
- all gardening/landscaping

Interesting list. My household:

- paying the mortgage (all husband)
- paying all bills (all husband)
- 80% of the childcare by time (60/40 Husband)
- bathing children (even split)
- buying children's clothes (all wife)
- 95% of the cooking (60/40 wife)
- 95% of the cleaning (husband majority)
- organizing house cleaners (wife)
- organizing all aspects of home maitenance (husband)
- all doctor & dentist appointments (even split)
- health insurance and medical bills (husband)
- obtaining an IEP and annual meetings and ensuring it is implemented (N/A)
- all kid laundry (husband, all laundry)
- coordinating kid social life (even split)
- camps (organizing split, transportation husband)
- kid contact with grandparents (wife, parents are closer)
- holiday planning, decorating, gift purchasing, relatives, meal cooking (leans wife)
- all gardening/landscaping (all husband)

This is the Husband (43M) writing this, but I think that with a couple of exceptions (cooking), my wife would agree.

Anonymous wrote:But it’s clear the agenda was not to be an emotionally supportive male friend.

+1. Do better, OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened to me. My XW was angry a significant portion of the time, and yet she wouldn't talk to me. So I had to become endlessly solicitous to try to find the thing that pleased her. It was exhausting, and doomed to fail.

Then she had a bunch of meetings with her happily divorced friend, and she latched join to the idea that the issue was me and life would be better without me. Once the idea was planted it became the thesis, and every interaction was interpreted to enforce the thesis. So she ended it. It was messy, and painful, and expensive for both of us. And then there was the impact on our child.

Fast forward a couple of years and our child said to me: "mom was always mad, and she was convinced it was all your fault. Now she's mad and she can't blame you so she ends up taking it out on me." The anger has been such that she's called our child names and threatened things that TBH will never be forgotten. Regardless of how she feels about me, there's an opportunity for her to address unresolved issues from childhood for her relationship with her child, and any other relationship she has. Whether she takes that step or not is entirely up to her.

Through our community I have heard that she's surprised that life isn't what she'd expected, that I'm thriving (including with a new relationship), that her relationship with her child has become notably worse since the divorce. She's reached out to friends for advice, and I applaud her for paying attention.

But to the OP: this absolutely happened to me. It's NEVER as simple as you think, regardless of which side you're on. And, I sincerely wish her the best.

This of course received no replies because people can't fathom that sometimes it's the woman at fault.

This board is extraordinarily sexist. Everyone knows that.

But it’s clear the agenda was not to be an emotionally supportive male friend.

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of this post?

Hidden agenda still not clear.

Correct, sock puppeting the thread usually doesn’t generate responses. Waste of time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened to me. My XW was angry a significant portion of the time, and yet she wouldn't talk to me. So I had to become endlessly solicitous to try to find the thing that pleased her. It was exhausting, and doomed to fail.

Then she had a bunch of meetings with her happily divorced friend, and she latched join to the idea that the issue was me and life would be better without me. Once the idea was planted it became the thesis, and every interaction was interpreted to enforce the thesis. So she ended it. It was messy, and painful, and expensive for both of us. And then there was the impact on our child.

Fast forward a couple of years and our child said to me: "mom was always mad, and she was convinced it was all your fault. Now she's mad and she can't blame you so she ends up taking it out on me." The anger has been such that she's called our child names and threatened things that TBH will never be forgotten. Regardless of how she feels about me, there's an opportunity for her to address unresolved issues from childhood for her relationship with her child, and any other relationship she has. Whether she takes that step or not is entirely up to her.

Through our community I have heard that she's surprised that life isn't what she'd expected, that I'm thriving (including with a new relationship), that her relationship with her child has become notably worse since the divorce. She's reached out to friends for advice, and I applaud her for paying attention.

But to the OP: this absolutely happened to me. It's NEVER as simple as you think, regardless of which side you're on. And, I sincerely wish her the best.

This of course received no replies because people can't fathom that sometimes it's the woman at fault.

Sorry your attempted thread jack didn’t get you the attention you so crave. Try a red pill board maybe?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened to me. My XW was angry a significant portion of the time, and yet she wouldn't talk to me. So I had to become endlessly solicitous to try to find the thing that pleased her. It was exhausting, and doomed to fail.

Then she had a bunch of meetings with her happily divorced friend, and she latched join to the idea that the issue was me and life would be better without me. Once the idea was planted it became the thesis, and every interaction was interpreted to enforce the thesis. So she ended it. It was messy, and painful, and expensive for both of us. And then there was the impact on our child.

Fast forward a couple of years and our child said to me: "mom was always mad, and she was convinced it was all your fault. Now she's mad and she can't blame you so she ends up taking it out on me." The anger has been such that she's called our child names and threatened things that TBH will never be forgotten. Regardless of how she feels about me, there's an opportunity for her to address unresolved issues from childhood for her relationship with her child, and any other relationship she has. Whether she takes that step or not is entirely up to her.

Through our community I have heard that she's surprised that life isn't what she'd expected, that I'm thriving (including with a new relationship), that her relationship with her child has become notably worse since the divorce. She's reached out to friends for advice, and I applaud her for paying attention.

But to the OP: this absolutely happened to me. It's NEVER as simple as you think, regardless of which side you're on. And, I sincerely wish her the best.

This of course received no replies because people can't fathom that sometimes it's the woman at fault.

Oh F off. If OP wanted a gender competition he should have started that war on his own.

Anonymous wrote:This happened to me. My XW was angry a significant portion of the time, and yet she wouldn't talk to me. So I had to become endlessly solicitous to try to find the thing that pleased her. It was exhausting, and doomed to fail.

Then she had a bunch of meetings with her happily divorced friend, and she latched join to the idea that the issue was me and life would be better without me. Once the idea was planted it became the thesis, and every interaction was interpreted to enforce the thesis. So she ended it. It was messy, and painful, and expensive for both of us. And then there was the impact on our child.

Fast forward a couple of years and our child said to me: "mom was always mad, and she was convinced it was all your fault. Now she's mad and she can't blame you so she ends up taking it out on me." The anger has been such that she's called our child names and threatened things that TBH will never be forgotten. Regardless of how she feels about me, there's an opportunity for her to address unresolved issues from childhood for her relationship with her child, and any other relationship she has. Whether she takes that step or not is entirely up to her.

Through our community I have heard that she's surprised that life isn't what she'd expected, that I'm thriving (including with a new relationship), that her relationship with her child has become notably worse since the divorce. She's reached out to friends for advice, and I applaud her for paying attention.

But to the OP: this absolutely happened to me. It's NEVER as simple as you think, regardless of which side you're on. And, I sincerely wish her the best.

This of course received no replies because people can't fathom that sometimes it's the woman at fault.