Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:44
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
But what if he didn't improve? What if he never made money? Would it be worth it then? Seems like a big gamble, especially if retirement security is on the line.
Yeah, that was a gamble. My retirement wasn't on the line though, we were financially okay in that department, along with paying for college, etc. After devoting a lot of time reading studies on the division of housework in modern American families, I decided that it was likely to improve and focused on that. It's hard to visualize the counterfactual, how I would have felt if we were still dealing with this. But I tend to be data driven and the numbers for married people are generally better than unmarried.
If my husband never made money at all, I wouldn't have married him. Financial security is a huge factor to me. He was always a good earner, just an even better spender until he made so much it'd be difficult to spend it.
So you married an immature man who treated you badly, but that's ok because money?
He treated me poorly in a way that the majority of men treat their wives poorly. In most American households, women do the majority of housework. So, uh, yeah, like most women in hetero couplings, who stay married, I tolerated this suboptimal yet common condition until it subsided. My decision to do so was less about money and more about wanting to be married to a man.
Maybe in your generation it's that common, but I'm sad for you that you think that was the price of marriage. Personally I'd rather be single.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:42
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
But what if he didn't improve? What if he never made money? Would it be worth it then? Seems like a big gamble, especially if retirement security is on the line.
Yeah, that was a gamble. My retirement wasn't on the line though, we were financially okay in that department, along with paying for college, etc. After devoting a lot of time reading studies on the division of housework in modern American families, I decided that it was likely to improve and focused on that. It's hard to visualize the counterfactual, how I would have felt if we were still dealing with this. But I tend to be data driven and the numbers for married people are generally better than unmarried.
If my husband never made money at all, I wouldn't have married him. Financial security is a huge factor to me. He was always a good earner, just an even better spender until he made so much it'd be difficult to spend it.
So you married an immature man who treated you badly, but that's ok because money?
He treated me poorly in a way that the majority of men treat their wives poorly. In most American households, women do the majority of housework. So, uh, yeah, like most women in hetero couplings, who stay married, I tolerated this suboptimal yet common condition until it subsided. My decision to do so was less about money and more about wanting to be married to a man.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:39
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Instead of jumping right into divorce talks, if I were the OP, I'd separate for a while. See if that would shake up the husband enough to put in some work to fix his behavior. Right now, he seems to think he can get away with it, and the only consequence is "nagging". Maybe if the consequence is that he loses his wife, kids and stable home life, he'll wake up. If he still doesn't want to work on himself after that, you should have no regrets walking away.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:32
Subject: Re:If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Would he consider being evaluated for adhd? Depression? Seems like something might be getting in the way of his ability to complete tasks.
So what? It's not an excuse for behaving like a lazy a$$ (neither is depression, but I don't really have any firsthand experience with that). My DH as ADHD and is a C-level exec at a large software company. He has always done his share of housework, childcare, whatever. His "share" has changed over the years, as has mine depending on circumstances, but he's never refused to be part of the family. He wasn't diagnosed until late in life, so I'm guessing his mother just trained him properly.....
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:29
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Hire help and stop expecting your husband to change. As you say, he does not care. You can’t change him and he is not motivated to do anything differently. I’m sorry.
Did you miss the part where OP says they can’t afford to outsource? And that if DH’s job came with a pay raise, it would be a different story?
Op, I’m so sorry you are going through this. I would seriously consider divorce. From what you’ve written, it doesn’t seem like he respects you at all, and that would be a deal breaker for me. I assume you work OP? If you also work full time, there absolutely needs to be a more equitable division of labor, and if he’s not interested, well, there’s nothing you can do about that.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:29
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
But what if he didn't improve? What if he never made money? Would it be worth it then? Seems like a big gamble, especially if retirement security is on the line.
Yeah, that was a gamble. My retirement wasn't on the line though, we were financially okay in that department, along with paying for college, etc. After devoting a lot of time reading studies on the division of housework in modern American families, I decided that it was likely to improve and focused on that. It's hard to visualize the counterfactual, how I would have felt if we were still dealing with this. But I tend to be data driven and the numbers for married people are generally better than unmarried.
If my husband never made money at all, I wouldn't have married him. Financial security is a huge factor to me. He was always a good earner, just an even better spender until he made so much it'd be difficult to spend it.
So you married an immature man who treated you badly, but that's ok because money?
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:27
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
But what if he didn't improve? What if he never made money? Would it be worth it then? Seems like a big gamble, especially if retirement security is on the line.
Yeah, that was a gamble. My retirement wasn't on the line though, we were financially okay in that department, along with paying for college, etc. After devoting a lot of time reading studies on the division of housework in modern American families, I decided that it was likely to improve and focused on that. It's hard to visualize the counterfactual, how I would have felt if we were still dealing with this. But I tend to be data driven and the numbers for married people are generally better than unmarried.
If my husband never made money at all, I wouldn't have married him. Financial security is a huge factor to me. He was always a good earner, just an even better spender until he made so much it'd be difficult to spend it.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:24
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
Yay for you, I guess. Hope it was worth it. Sounds like you put up with a lot for a long time to get money and a sort of adequate marriage. Wowwwie, a non-terrible amount of cleaning. You make the payoff sound totally worth it.
But it's not just about doing or not doing chores. It's about his lack of reliability, that he doesn't take commitments to his wife very seriously. He isn't trustworthy. He lacks self discipline and can't manage basic self care like getting enough sleep. This isn't just a little bit of immaturity. He's profoundly disrespectful and can't handle adult life.
I have a great marriage now. And I did put up with more than I should have had to, and we could have been financially comfortable with our UMC incomes and we weren't and it sucked. My only point is, it is not only possible for this to change, it is statistically likely to. I read a TON about this issue when it was going on in my life, and the research on it is what caused me to back off and wait. I was also struck by the research on how common it is, so it's also statistically likely that if you leave, you'll be dating other men with these habits and possibly end up in the same situation. I guess I am not taking a very romantic view-- I am effectively arguing she should overlook disrespectful behavior in the interest of the long term happiness that tends to accompany long marriages. No, it's not as satisfying as the "yasss queen, leave him!" advice that tends to dominate this forum but sometimes being pragmatic is best.
Sorry no. That kind of godawful behavior is not as common as you think, and younger women know they don't have to put up with it. I don't know what made your DH stop being quite as much of a loser or why you would want to be with someone who so disregarded your happiness and well-being. But times change and this kind of man is no longer just immature. He has a mental health problem, a secret affair or addiction, or untreated ADHD.
And I think it's very irresponsible of you to say "wait it out" when OP's long term financial security is on the line. To wait is a gamble and you seem to think you won, but it's a risk.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:22
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:He came home to tell you about something he was excited about and felt flattered by. You called him lazy and talked about his flaws. I am having trouble understanding how you expected him to react. I know he isn't helping at home, but he's your husband and you should try to muster a little bit of support for him.
Men get better as they get older. They contribute more and make more responsible decisions. Wait him out.
yes, they are ma-babies. The wives should treat them like children and wait for them to mature.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:21
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
DP.. I'd like to see the research on this, because anecdotally, I am not seeing that.. and I'm in my 50s.
My guess is that you were able to accept the situation maybe because your DH wasn't a complete ahole about it. Did he scream at you; tell you that you should be grateful because he took the trash out 2x in a week over xmas?
I bet if OP's husband doesn't get the job he'll blame her. He seems to be the type who blames everyone else for their failings.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:18
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
Yay for you, I guess. Hope it was worth it. Sounds like you put up with a lot for a long time to get money and a sort of adequate marriage. Wowwwie, a non-terrible amount of cleaning. You make the payoff sound totally worth it.
But it's not just about doing or not doing chores. It's about his lack of reliability, that he doesn't take commitments to his wife very seriously. He isn't trustworthy. He lacks self discipline and can't manage basic self care like getting enough sleep. This isn't just a little bit of immaturity. He's profoundly disrespectful and can't handle adult life.
I have a great marriage now. And I did put up with more than I should have had to, and we could have been financially comfortable with our UMC incomes and we weren't and it sucked. My only point is, it is not only possible for this to change, it is statistically likely to. I read a TON about this issue when it was going on in my life, and the research on it is what caused me to back off and wait. I was also struck by the research on how common it is, so it's also statistically likely that if you leave, you'll be dating other men with these habits and possibly end up in the same situation. I guess I am not taking a very romantic view-- I am effectively arguing she should overlook disrespectful behavior in the interest of the long term happiness that tends to accompany long marriages. No, it's not as satisfying as the "yasss queen, leave him!" advice that tends to dominate this forum but sometimes being pragmatic is best.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:15
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny.Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Love you and this phrase!
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:14
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
But what if he didn't improve? What if he never made money? Would it be worth it then? Seems like a big gamble, especially if retirement security is on the line.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:03
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:The details of the job sound iffy, but a lot of these millennial lead places do things differently so who knows.
That said being lazy at home does correlate to work success.
He's lazy he's not going to change and start helping at home.
Therapy, ,card games, telling him he sucks at work isn't going to get him to not be lazy.
The only person you can change here is you. Your choices are leave him. Stay and do everything . Stay and outsource more.
I'm a millennial and no, this is not how things are done. I did do some extra work covering for my boss when she was on maternity leave and A) I was a high performer (OP's husband is not) and ;B) they were very upfront about the benefits and compensation and didn't dangle a potential raise (I got a very defined bonus for doing this).
Talking about his ADHD, it doesn't really matter. If he had ADHD that's his responsibility to manage it.
Anonymous
01/07/2023 13:00
Subject: If H takes this job, it’s going to break me.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wait it out my fanny. Are you some doormat SAHM who's congratulating herself on how much crap she put up with for decades? Sorry but allowing yourself to be mistreated ks not a solution, it's a failure.
Um, no, and I'm not sure what your vaginas has to do with this.
So your advice is for OP to do all the work herself, allow herself to be treated disrespectfully by a lazy and irresponsible man, let him waste their money, this goes on for decades, and at the end what's the prize? Still being married to a jerk who's slightly better? No thanks.
He sounds immature. That tends to improve over time.
Where I'm coming from with this is, I did have a husband that didn't do as much housework as I felt he should and also was irresponsible with money. At some point I decided to stop nagging and just accept the situation. It was not easy and it was not fair. Fast forward about 10 years- he is now a much greater contributor to the household-- does all cooking, shopping, schlepping the kids around, and a non-terrible amount of cleaning. (I still do more cleaning.) And, his income is now extremely high, high enough that he is still able to make silly purchases or lose money in predictable ways and it doesn't impact us at all. I dislike clutter, so I don't love this trait, but it isn't a crisis like it was before. So yes-- people can and often do have a difficult time in the first part of marriage and then go on to have a great marriage.
It sounds like she's done and is leaving him, and that's also a path forward. But this is something that is a fairly common problem in relationships, and if you read the research on it, it does tend to improve with time, and in later life actually flips, with men doing more housework than women in retirement age.
Yay for you, I guess. Hope it was worth it. Sounds like you put up with a lot for a long time to get money and a sort of adequate marriage. Wowwwie, a non-terrible amount of cleaning. You make the payoff sound totally worth it.
But it's not just about doing or not doing chores. It's about his lack of reliability, that he doesn't take commitments to his wife very seriously. He isn't trustworthy. He lacks self discipline and can't manage basic self care like getting enough sleep. This isn't just a little bit of immaturity. He's profoundly disrespectful and can't handle adult life.