Anonymous
01/06/2023 23:54
Subject: Re:How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Attending a summer program at College A can be a signal to other colleges that you prefer College A. Really can hurt admissions.
Other benefits for sure to some summer programs. Especially the truly serious writing programs etc. Benefits mostly in terms of kids who just get a lot out of them.
Most are pay to play
Depends upon how the applicant reflects upon the experience.
Use the college app to present yourself to the school. How you do so is likely to be reflected in the admissions decisions.
As an example: One who makes an overly simplistic statement such as: "Most are pay to play." probably offers little to any academic community.
Oh Jeepers H. Christmas. I get it now, you must run one of those programs.
Fact: most are pay to play and don't help in admissions. Simplistic? Sure. Also true? Yes.
Rather than the blanket and unprovable assumption that summer programs don't help with admissions, it would be helpful if people could identify which programs, if any, actually do help with admissions. Hardly seems possible that NO summer program exists that helps with admissions.
Yes it hardly seems possible, and yet it is the overwhelming position by AOs when you speak to them, college consultants, and books written by former AOs. Universally and without and informed disagreement I have seen.
Such as? Names, links to articles?
Books by former elite college AOs:
Michelle Hernandez
Chuck Hughes
Rachel Toor
Kat Cohen
need more? There's more. Or you wanna call me a liar again?
I wasn't calling you a liar. I genuinely wanted to know. I had never heard those names, and now I have some new books to check out. Thanks!
Anonymous
01/06/2023 22:21
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
I think the only value is to allow your DC to explore an interest and relay that to an AO. DC did 2 summer programs - 1 after 10th, 1 after 11. They were both in the same area and it’s not something they could study at school. Applied with that major. Don’t know if it ‘helped’ with admissions, but it helped my DC with her interest.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 21:36
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:NP here but with all due respect, there are what, 3000 colleges in the US and you've named 4 "former" AOs. That's a very small number and you know, things do change...
Aww geeez you people are IMPOSSIBLE. Yeah I named 4 in about as many seconds. DOn't take my word for it, talk to a college admissions professional.
You say it has changed? Show that, if you make that claim. There is no reason whatsoever to think it has. Find me ONE AO - just one - at a highly competitive college who says that. Until then:
But admissions experts I spoke to were unanimous that, when it comes to getting into college, the benefits of most pre-college programs are negligible. The big winners, rather, are the schools themselves, who use pre-college programs to generate millions of dollars in revenue while relying on marketing practices that oversell the programs’ benefits, including elaborate admissions processes that imply a misleading degree of selectivity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/08/28/americas-elite-universities-are-making-millions-off-summer-programs-teens-do-they-really-help-kids-get-into-college/
While attending a summer college program at a particular school can indicate your interest in that institution, most universities make clear that attending these types of programs does not provide guaranteed admission or even preference in the admissions process.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/pre-college-summer-programs-students/
Not all summer programs are created equal, and attending a summer program at a fancy school does not increase your chances of admission to that school. Third parties often run summer programs on a college campus and merely use the school’s name to attach prestige to their program.
https://www.ivyscholars.com/summer-programs/
Families should also be aware that most of these programs, while educational in nature, are still for profit. They exist to make money. Moreover, not every program is organized by the host institution. Some are run by companies that are simply renting classroom/dorm space while relying on the sway of a big name to attract participants.
Those programs that are run by the universities in question maintain that no preference is given to summer program attendees. Participation in a summer course on their campus only shows an admissions committee that the applicant had an early interest in a subject. They do not guarantee entry or preference.
https://askversed.com/blog-post/are-pre-college-summer-programs-worth-it
"These programs aren't intentionally misleading, but there are a lot of misconceptions out there. It's not that they are a complete waste, it's just that most programs don't help you get into college unless they are completely merit-based," Rim said.
Even when nominally affiliated with a college or university, summer semesters are typically administered by a distinct department within the institution, like the office of continuing education, and aren't connected to undergraduate admissions.
"Most aren't administered by the main college office or the deans' offices," said Christine Kim, a former assistant director of admissions at Yale and Georgetown universities. While acceptance isn't guaranteed, a high school record of at least straight Bs should suffice, she added.
Then there are those programs like Explo, which offers courses across a variety of disciplines and was hosted by Yale last summer, but is not affiliated with the university.
"Explo rents space and a lot of parents think, 'This program is at Yale, it will help my child go to school there,' but that's not the case," Rim said.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pricey-summer-programs-wont-help-get-your-kid-into-college/
I could do this for hours, but it won't budge you, your mind is made up. And remember, the question by OP was do they help with admissions - as in do they have any weight in admissions. And the strong consensus answer by the informed is that only a few highly competitive ones have any real benefit in admissions. Your kid is better off with a summer job - that will impress an AO more.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 21:29
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:This is OP.
So I am taking away that by and large these programs can be educational, fun, provide something to do for kids who have aged out of most camps, and can give a kid specific insight into a particular school or area of study, but should not be regarded as legs up in admissions.
That is how I will plan to use them as we navigate summer trips, jobs, etc over the next few years with 2 teens.
Thank you all!
That's about right (and I'm a parent of a child who did two different summer programs).
Anonymous
01/06/2023 20:37
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
NP here but with all due respect, there are what, 3000 colleges in the US and you've named 4 "former" AOs. That's a very small number and you know, things do change...
Anonymous
01/06/2023 19:46
Subject: Re:How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Attending a summer program at College A can be a signal to other colleges that you prefer College A. Really can hurt admissions.
Other benefits for sure to some summer programs. Especially the truly serious writing programs etc. Benefits mostly in terms of kids who just get a lot out of them.
Most are pay to play
Depends upon how the applicant reflects upon the experience.
Use the college app to present yourself to the school. How you do so is likely to be reflected in the admissions decisions.
As an example: One who makes an overly simplistic statement such as: "Most are pay to play." probably offers little to any academic community.
Oh Jeepers H. Christmas. I get it now, you must run one of those programs.
Fact: most are pay to play and don't help in admissions. Simplistic? Sure. Also true? Yes.
Rather than the blanket and unprovable assumption that summer programs don't help with admissions, it would be helpful if people could identify which programs, if any, actually do help with admissions. Hardly seems possible that NO summer program exists that helps with admissions.
Yes it hardly seems possible, and yet it is the overwhelming position by AOs when you speak to them, college consultants, and books written by former AOs. Universally and without and informed disagreement I have seen.
Such as? Names, links to articles?
Books by former elite college AOs:
Michelle Hernandez
Chuck Hughes
Rachel Toor
Kat Cohen
need more? There's more. Or you wanna call me a liar again?
Anonymous
01/06/2023 16:18
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:+1.
Seems odd to count on that as a sign of interest, particularly in a world of ED. If you apply ED, you are interested but so is the rest of the pool. If you went to the summer program but did not apply ED, it is not going to help.
Of course, not all schools are ED or SCEA but most of the programs mentioned in this thread are at schools with that option.[/quote]
This x100
If you do not apply ED no summer program involvement will make up it demonstrated interest-wise
There are other reasons people do not apply ED (like want to compare merit offers). I don’t think not applying ED means the summer does not demonstrate interest. I think for many schools (with some well known exceptions) ED is over rated. Yea, the acceptance rate is higher but it is filled with athletes, legacies and special admits, so it would be higher. It is very school specific and a blanket statement like this is not helpful.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 16:12
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of these programs can lead to a good recommendation.
but could the more expensive ones create more of a backlash with the attending child seen as privileged?
Yes.
some have FA and other scholarships, and some kids work to pay for their own summer camps / trips / college classes.
So no, not exclusively, not at all.
Yup. And some have instructions on how to do Go Fund Mes to pay for them. Not exclusively.
"Could" it be that the more expensive ones create more of a backlash bc of privilege. Yes. Could.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 16:11
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:On backlash, if my kid already goes to an expensive private school and has internships thru my connections, the cat is out of the bag. Rich people trying to act like they aren’t is worse than just owning it, IMHO.
Why do people here think colleges don’t want rich kids? How do you think they find all of that financial aid to poor kids—through full pay. They need a percentage of full pay kids.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 15:36
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
This is OP.
So I am taking away that by and large these programs can be educational, fun, provide something to do for kids who have aged out of most camps, and can give a kid specific insight into a particular school or area of study, but should not be regarded as legs up in admissions.
That is how I will plan to use them as we navigate summer trips, jobs, etc over the next few years with 2 teens.
Thank you all!
So I am taking away that by and large these programs can be educational, fun, provide something to do for kids who have aged out of most camps, and can give a kid specific insight into a particular school or area of study, but should not be regarded as legs up in admissions.
That is how I will plan to use them as we navigate summer trips, jobs, etc over the next few years with 2 teens.
Thank you all!
Anonymous
01/06/2023 15:32
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
There's no way most can help because they're huge. I happened to walk through Georgetown this summer when the summer program kids were unpacking and there were hundreds of them and this was just one programs and one point in time. Clearly they don't all get a boost--there are more summer program kids than spots in the freshman class.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 15:07
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
On backlash, if my kid already goes to an expensive private school and has internships thru my connections, the cat is out of the bag. Rich people trying to act like they aren’t is worse than just owning it, IMHO.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 14:47
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of these programs can lead to a good recommendation.
but could the more expensive ones create more of a backlash with the attending child seen as privileged?
Yes.
some have FA and other scholarships, and some kids work to pay for their own summer camps / trips / college classes.
So no, not exclusively, not at all.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 14:45
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some of these programs can lead to a good recommendation.
but could the more expensive ones create more of a backlash with the attending child seen as privileged?
Yes.
Anonymous
01/06/2023 14:17
Subject: How much do college summer programs help with admissions?
Anonymous wrote:+1.
Seems odd to count on that as a sign of interest, particularly in a world of ED. If you apply ED, you are interested but so is the rest of the pool. If you went to the summer program but did not apply ED, it is not going to help.
Of course, not all schools are ED or SCEA but most of the programs mentioned in this thread are at schools with that option.[/quote]
This x100
If you do not apply ED no summer program involvement will make up it demonstrated interest-wise