Anonymous
12/01/2022 21:54
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
Out of curiosity: Why does Santa come to your Jewish house? He may not have anything to do with Christianity in your mind, but he very clearly also has nothing to do with Judaism.
DP. Santa isn’t religious. He can go to any house he wants.
Well...Santa is a version of St. Nicholas, a character originating in Western Christian culture.
Nope, sorry. The Santa figure was around long before Christianity appropriated it by assigning him a saint. Same as Valentine's Day. Early Christian leadership spent a lot of time coming up with saints and stories to fit pre-Christian practices. You could say it was a thing.
Are you saying a generous bishop named Nicholas, who gave his parents' fortune away to the poor, never existed in Greece around 300AD? You're disagreeing with history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas#Generosity_and_travels.
Or that a guy called Valentine was never martyred. Wikipedia cites academics who debunk the idea that St. Valentine's Day was originally a pagan holiday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Valentine. (Although, please, don't derail this into a thread about Valentine's Day.)
Newsflash: sometimes the same traditions arise in different cultures at different times. And that's OK.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 20:07
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
If your family enjoys the Santa tradition, I’m glad he visits you. Nobody else gets to dictate your household celebrations. However, your view on Santa is not widely shared. Santa is definitely associated with Christmas, and Christmas with Christianity.
I disagree. The majority of educated folks know that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and don't feel any obligation to be Christian while celebrating a secular Christmas. Only Christians constantly whine about how everyone needs to put Jesus back into Christmas and how materialistic and secular it all is today, without realizing the irony of all of that being much older than Christianity itself.
I mean, he's been pretty secularized, but it's just wrong to say he has "nothing" to do with Christianity. Christmas is a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. Santa is based on a Christian saint. Even if he's been turned into a secular cartoon, his origins are pretty clearly based in Christianity, and not everyone agrees that there are no religious aspects to either Santa or Christmas. Not all Jews celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, for example.
I'm guessing if non Jews started celebrating Hanukkah because 8 days of gifts is better than one some Jewish people would find that offensive. Choosing to celebrate one of the holiest days for a different faith because it's "secularized" even though the name of it has the name of their Savior IN the name of the holiday is a bit of appropriation. I'm an atheist but I can see why some Christians would not be happy with folks and yes I celebrate. I was raised a Christian and it is part of my family culture. Don't care what anyone else does but the inability of people to consider the other side of anything is disheartening.
You have it the wrong way around. Christmas traditions like trees, gifts, lights, and a guy on a flying sleigh who gives gifts to good children are all traditions that pre-date Christianity. Many are part of the celebrations of pre-Christian religions. They were deliberately and consciously appropriated by the Christian church, with a kind of "if you can't beat 'em, make them join you" mentality, as a way to combat what it saw as pagan tradition in a population it was actively trying to convert. By not recognizing that appropriation, we simply take back what was always ours.
Well, that’s pretty ahistorical, but if we went with your flawed logic….when were pagan traditions Jewish or celebrated by the population which became Jewish? We’re Santa and the Easter Bunny hanging out in the Land of Canaan? FFS.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 19:53
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
If your family enjoys the Santa tradition, I’m glad he visits you. Nobody else gets to dictate your household celebrations. However, your view on Santa is not widely shared. Santa is definitely associated with Christmas, and Christmas with Christianity.
I disagree. The majority of educated folks know that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and don't feel any obligation to be Christian while celebrating a secular Christmas. Only Christians constantly whine about how everyone needs to put Jesus back into Christmas and how materialistic and secular it all is today, without realizing the irony of all of that being much older than Christianity itself.
I mean, he's been pretty secularized, but it's just wrong to say he has "nothing" to do with Christianity. Christmas is a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. Santa is based on a Christian saint. Even if he's been turned into a secular cartoon, his origins are pretty clearly based in Christianity, and not everyone agrees that there are no religious aspects to either Santa or Christmas. Not all Jews celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, for example.
I'm guessing if non Jews started celebrating Hanukkah because 8 days of gifts is better than one some Jewish people would find that offensive. Choosing to celebrate one of the holiest days for a different faith because it's "secularized" even though the name of it has the name of their Savior IN the name of the holiday is a bit of appropriation. I'm an atheist but I can see why some Christians would not be happy with folks and yes I celebrate. I was raised a Christian and it is part of my family culture. Don't care what anyone else does but the inability of people to consider the other side of anything is disheartening.
You have it the wrong way around. Christmas traditions like trees, gifts, lights, and a guy on a flying sleigh who gives gifts to good children are all traditions that pre-date Christianity. Many are part of the celebrations of pre-Christian religions. They were deliberately and consciously appropriated by the Christian church, with a kind of "if you can't beat 'em, make them join you" mentality, as a way to combat what it saw as pagan tradition in a population it was actively trying to convert. By not recognizing that appropriation, we simply take back what was always ours.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 19:53
Subject: Talking about Santa
We never did “he sees you when you’re sleeping” or “making a list” kind of talk, just fun on Christmas Day and making lists. When they were old enough to ask if he’s real, we said, “Some people say yes, some people say no; what do you think?” So far they say yes, but I think my 9yo is well aware she’s making a choice.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 19:48
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
Out of curiosity: Why does Santa come to your Jewish house? He may not have anything to do with Christianity in your mind, but he very clearly also has nothing to do with Judaism.
DP. Santa isn’t religious. He can go to any house he wants.
Well...Santa is a version of St. Nicholas, a character originating in Western Christian culture.
Nope, sorry. The Santa figure was around long before Christianity appropriated it by assigning him a saint. Same as Valentine's Day. Early Christian leadership spent a lot of time coming up with saints and stories to fit pre-Christian practices. You could say it was a thing.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 18:54
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why make such a big deal?
Every religion has some celebrations
What about the kids who get nothing at Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, don’t get to celebrate Eid?
Hanukkah, Kwanzaa and Eid aren't in everybody's faces for months.
How so?
Stores celebrate anything, just to make money, that is a retail thing
Tell me more?
I do not shop often so am not that familiar
This is a good thought experiment for anyone having trouble understanding how/why people of minority faiths sometimes struggle with "the Christmas season" in our culture: https://twitter.com/JustSayXtian/status/1598015638718787584?s=20&t=ZQI-SJS9GIxtUMshH5l5uw
Nobody is reading all that.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 18:18
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
If your family enjoys the Santa tradition, I’m glad he visits you. Nobody else gets to dictate your household celebrations. However, your view on Santa is not widely shared. Santa is definitely associated with Christmas, and Christmas with Christianity.
I disagree. The majority of educated folks know that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and don't feel any obligation to be Christian while celebrating a secular Christmas. Only Christians constantly whine about how everyone needs to put Jesus back into Christmas and how materialistic and secular it all is today, without realizing the irony of all of that being much older than Christianity itself.
I mean, he's been pretty secularized, but it's just wrong to say he has "nothing" to do with Christianity. Christmas is a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. Santa is based on a Christian saint. Even if he's been turned into a secular cartoon, his origins are pretty clearly based in Christianity, and not everyone agrees that there are no religious aspects to either Santa or Christmas. Not all Jews celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, for example.
I'm guessing if non Jews started celebrating Hanukkah because 8 days of gifts is better than one some Jewish people would find that offensive. Choosing to celebrate one of the holiest days for a different faith because it's "secularized" even though the name of it has the name of their Savior IN the name of the holiday is a bit of appropriation. I'm an atheist but I can see why some Christians would not be happy with folks and yes I celebrate. I was raised a Christian and it is part of my family culture. Don't care what anyone else does but the inability of people to consider the other side of anything is disheartening.
Santa has nothing to do with the actual religious holiday. He was added many centuries later.
Saint Nicholas has his own day: Saint Nicholas Day/Feast of Saint Nicholas. Not Xmas.
Santa isn’t “holy”.
I am happy to take my kid to Christmas parties of neighbors, but we are Jews so we don’t celebrate at home, or have any of the Christmas stuff in our house. Kids know Santa is a Christian tradition and is made-up. They also know the tooth fairy is fake. We don’t blow Hanukkah up to compete with Christmas - it’s a minor holiday. We usually take a trip and buy one gift. We give gifts at Purim and Pesach, because these were more traditional gift-giving times in our family tradition.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 17:23
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
If your family enjoys the Santa tradition, I’m glad he visits you. Nobody else gets to dictate your household celebrations. However, your view on Santa is not widely shared. Santa is definitely associated with Christmas, and Christmas with Christianity.
I disagree. The majority of educated folks know that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and don't feel any obligation to be Christian while celebrating a secular Christmas. Only Christians constantly whine about how everyone needs to put Jesus back into Christmas and how materialistic and secular it all is today, without realizing the irony of all of that being much older than Christianity itself.
I mean, he's been pretty secularized, but it's just wrong to say he has "nothing" to do with Christianity. Christmas is a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. Santa is based on a Christian saint. Even if he's been turned into a secular cartoon, his origins are pretty clearly based in Christianity, and not everyone agrees that there are no religious aspects to either Santa or Christmas. Not all Jews celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, for example.
I'm guessing if non Jews started celebrating Hanukkah because 8 days of gifts is better than one some Jewish people would find that offensive. Choosing to celebrate one of the holiest days for a different faith because it's "secularized" even though the name of it has the name of their Savior IN the name of the holiday is a bit of appropriation. I'm an atheist but I can see why some Christians would not be happy with folks and yes I celebrate. I was raised a Christian and it is part of my family culture. Don't care what anyone else does but the inability of people to consider the other side of anything is disheartening.
Respectfully, I’ve never known a Christian who has ever given AF about non-Christians celebrating Christmas or having Santa come to non-Christian homes. And I went to Catholic school all the way through grad school and everyone I ever knew for the first couple of decades of my life was Christian. Some Jewish folks probably would have a problem with us celebrating Hanukkah, but the reverse is definitely not true.
But then again you’re an atheist so what do you know about any of this? Stay in your lane.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 17:16
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
If your family enjoys the Santa tradition, I’m glad he visits you. Nobody else gets to dictate your household celebrations. However, your view on Santa is not widely shared. Santa is definitely associated with Christmas, and Christmas with Christianity.
I disagree. The majority of educated folks know that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and don't feel any obligation to be Christian while celebrating a secular Christmas. Only Christians constantly whine about how everyone needs to put Jesus back into Christmas and how materialistic and secular it all is today, without realizing the irony of all of that being much older than Christianity itself.
I mean, he's been pretty secularized, but it's just wrong to say he has "nothing" to do with Christianity. Christmas is a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. Santa is based on a Christian saint. Even if he's been turned into a secular cartoon, his origins are pretty clearly based in Christianity, and not everyone agrees that there are no religious aspects to either Santa or Christmas. Not all Jews celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, for example.
I'm guessing if non Jews started celebrating Hanukkah because 8 days of gifts is better than one some Jewish people would find that offensive. Choosing to celebrate one of the holiest days for a different faith because it's "secularized" even though the name of it has the name of their Savior IN the name of the holiday is a bit of appropriation. I'm an atheist but I can see why some Christians would not be happy with folks and yes I celebrate. I was raised a Christian and it is part of my family culture. Don't care what anyone else does but the inability of people to consider the other side of anything is disheartening.
Santa has nothing to do with the actual religious holiday. He was added many centuries later.
Saint Nicholas has his own day: Saint Nicholas Day/Feast of Saint Nicholas. Not Xmas.
Santa isn’t “holy”.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 17:07
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why make such a big deal?
Every religion has some celebrations
What about the kids who get nothing at Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, don’t get to celebrate Eid?
Hanukkah, Kwanzaa and Eid aren't in everybody's faces for months.
How so?
Stores celebrate anything, just to make money, that is a retail thing
Tell me more?
I do not shop often so am not that familiar
This is a good thought experiment for anyone having trouble understanding how/why people of minority faiths sometimes struggle with "the Christmas season" in our culture: https://twitter.com/JustSayXtian/status/1598015638718787584?s=20&t=ZQI-SJS9GIxtUMshH5l5uw
Anonymous
12/01/2022 17:00
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
If your family enjoys the Santa tradition, I’m glad he visits you. Nobody else gets to dictate your household celebrations. However, your view on Santa is not widely shared. Santa is definitely associated with Christmas, and Christmas with Christianity.
I disagree. The majority of educated folks know that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and don't feel any obligation to be Christian while celebrating a secular Christmas. Only Christians constantly whine about how everyone needs to put Jesus back into Christmas and how materialistic and secular it all is today, without realizing the irony of all of that being much older than Christianity itself.
I mean, he's been pretty secularized, but it's just wrong to say he has "nothing" to do with Christianity. Christmas is a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. Santa is based on a Christian saint. Even if he's been turned into a secular cartoon, his origins are pretty clearly based in Christianity, and not everyone agrees that there are no religious aspects to either Santa or Christmas. Not all Jews celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, for example.
I'm guessing if non Jews started celebrating Hanukkah because 8 days of gifts is better than one some Jewish people would find that offensive. Choosing to celebrate one of the holiest days for a different faith because it's "secularized" even though the name of it has the name of their Savior IN the name of the holiday is a bit of appropriation. I'm an atheist but I can see why some Christians would not be happy with folks and yes I celebrate. I was raised a Christian and it is part of my family culture. Don't care what anyone else does but the inability of people to consider the other side of anything is disheartening.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 16:13
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
If your family enjoys the Santa tradition, I’m glad he visits you. Nobody else gets to dictate your household celebrations. However, your view on Santa is not widely shared. Santa is definitely associated with Christmas, and Christmas with Christianity.
I disagree. The majority of educated folks know that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity and don't feel any obligation to be Christian while celebrating a secular Christmas. Only Christians constantly whine about how everyone needs to put Jesus back into Christmas and how materialistic and secular it all is today, without realizing the irony of all of that being much older than Christianity itself.
I mean, he's been pretty secularized, but it's just wrong to say he has "nothing" to do with Christianity. Christmas is a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Christ. Santa is based on a Christian saint. Even if he's been turned into a secular cartoon, his origins are pretty clearly based in Christianity, and not everyone agrees that there are no religious aspects to either Santa or Christmas. Not all Jews celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, for example.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 16:08
Subject: Talking about Santa
FWIW my Moldovan Jewish friends do Father Frost who comes at New Years.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 12:53
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
Out of curiosity: Why does Santa come to your Jewish house? He may not have anything to do with Christianity in your mind, but he very clearly also has nothing to do with Judaism.
DP. Santa isn’t religious. He can go to any house he wants.
Well...Santa is a version of St. Nicholas, a character originating in Western Christian culture.
I guess he is a fictional character with supernatural powers. Definitely some parallels there.
St. Nicholas was a real person, but that was centuries ago and he never rode around on reindeer and ate your milk and cookies on Christmas Eve.
I mean technically he's Catholic so it doesn't make sense all these Protestants engaging with Santa.
He was Greek Orthodox but your point still stands.
Anonymous
12/01/2022 12:25
Subject: Talking about Santa
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We're Jewish and Santa comes to our house every year. Santa is not really a Christian figure, just one appropriated by Christianity a long time ago, so we don't see any relationship between Santa and other religions. I taught my child from an early age not to taunt other kids and to remember that not everyone celebrates holidays so it's best not to talk a lot about it at school.
It concerns me that OP thinks Santa is only for Christians, and makes sense that her kid might taunt other kids.
Out of curiosity: Why does Santa come to your Jewish house? He may not have anything to do with Christianity in your mind, but he very clearly also has nothing to do with Judaism.
DP. Santa isn’t religious. He can go to any house he wants.
Well...Santa is a version of St. Nicholas, a character originating in Western Christian culture.
I guess he is a fictional character with supernatural powers. Definitely some parallels there.
St. Nicholas was a real person, but that was centuries ago and he never rode around on reindeer and ate your milk and cookies on Christmas Eve.
I mean technically he's Catholic so it doesn't make sense all these Protestants engaging with Santa.