Anonymous
Post 03/21/2023 06:12     Subject: colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:probably the schools with strong alumni support on wall street, but like to hear thoughts on what people see. Bucknell, W&L, Kelly, BC, ‘Nova? Assume NYU is top 25


They will fill up the 'back office' and if lucky, 'middle office'.


Bucknell and Lehigh grads with high gpa’s get front office jobs if they target it and are singularly focused on getting it the moment they set foot on campus as freshman


"Front office' in Utah.


The irony here is that “front office” in Utah is the dream, whether it’s at GS, in VC or in tech. An old colleague transferred there. He has a 30 minute commute from his beautiful home in Park City, skis 30 days a year, joined a nice golf club, 4-5 hour drive to all of Utah’s national parks or Yellowstone/Tetons, commute to airport is only 30 minutes from where he lives in park city.
Anonymous
Post 03/21/2023 05:37     Subject: colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Students who are superstars in related fields are the ones who place well, it has little to do with the colleges. Cambridge, MIT, Harvard, etc. have more people at Jane Street than anyone else because they have more graduates who are ridiculously smart and ambitious and care about making boatloads of money than other colleges. Those kids were already that way in high school, which is why they were admitted. If they had all chosen to go to Penn State instead, then Penn State would be number one at Jane Street.
Anonymous
Post 03/20/2023 22:57     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:Dumb question but do you generally need to have charisma, be really put-together, good looking, outgoing, etc. to get these jobs?
The kids I know fit this description but I have a very small sample.


Not for quant jock positions, but for a beginning analyst, yes.
Anonymous
Post 12/01/2022 09:30     Subject: colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I generally agree but not everyone is into STEM

Finance and accounting are great for non-STEM people

I would add business analytics and MIS


Business professor again: I worked as a quant. Wow, lots of hate for telling the truth about helicopter parents who lack faith in their kids.

Accounting has merit, but DCUM insists on front office investment banking, not sales, trading, research, asset management, nor risk management. Certainly nothing pedestrian like accounting.

Analytics and MIS are STEM by definition. The problem is that undergrad business curricula are broad and flexible enough to allow lightweight STEM. You should seek the more rigorous STEM courses, inside and outside the business school. If you want authentic Chinese food, then you should go to restaurants where the Chinese are. Whoops, that is not a terrible heuristic for STEM. But you want to go where the nerds are, in math, science, computer science, and engineering.

What if your kid is a greedy stupid nincompoop, uninterested and incapable of learning anything challenging? Then I guess he must work long hours as a spreadsheet monkey. I don't see any other reason to pay him.

To be fair, I'm not sure how I would judge the quality of undergrad business programs. But I don't want to shoehorn my kids into a profession. I'll just steer them toward a place with the most general opportunities, and encourage them to experiment and challenge themselves.


While i dont diagree with what you are saying , the way you are saying it is really rude and off putting. I hope you don't mentor students.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2022 21:49     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of truth in the old adage: Those who can work in the private sector; those who can't teach.


I’ve done both. Overall, the people who went into PhD programs in econ are smarter than those who went into banking. There are more duds among those who went into industry.


Of course they are.

But PhDs working at hedge funds are smarter than PhDs working in academia.


Which “hedge funds?” There are many mid PhD dropouts working at family offices.


Renaissance, Jane Street, Two Sigma etc. They probably make 10-20 times what Ph.Ds at academia make.


My nephew works for Jane Street - he was a physics major at Michigan (‘21 grad) and said students in his major were recruited more heavily than the business majors.


This is probably the case for finance jobs that hire "smart" people (math- or algo-focused prop shops, hedge funds, etc.). It's not really the case for most finance jobs, though.

In general, if you're at a school with a business school (or "business" majors of some sort) it's best to do that.
Anonymous
Post 11/30/2022 18:15     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Northwestern and Brown overall are on par with schools like Northeastern and below Boston College.

NYU Business: $93.6K
Notre Dame Finance: $96K
Berkeley Business: $95k
Boston College Finance: $94.6k
UVA Business: $96K
Georgetown Finance: $107K


You are sophomoric and sloppy. For example, I edited your post because you listed Berkeley twice.

Let me review your conceptual error regarding business placement. https://www.businessinsider.com/best-college-major-for-wall-street-2016-8

Roughly 50% of Wall Street jobs went to business majors, and 20% to economics majors. You think that means business is the best path to Wall Street. But you overlooked that fact that there are over 10 times as many business majors as economics majors. For example, suppose there are 100 jobs available, there are 500 economics graduates, and 5,000 business graduates. Business graduates get 50 jobs on Wall Street; that is 1% of business graduates. Economics graduates get 20 jobs; that is 4% of economics graduates. So, economics graduates have 4 times the chance of landing on Wall Street. Physics and applied math graduates are greatly overrepresented too.

Think about how selection bias affects those numbers. NYU, Columbia (NYC), Berkeley (Silicon Valley), Northeastern, Boston College (Boston), and Georgetown (DC northeast corridor) are in expensive areas. Northwestern and Notre Dame have impressive numbers considering their placements in the midwest. I know Georgetown has good placement. Virginia probably places students near D.C. or northeast.

I'm not sure about Brown, although my Maryland friend transferred there and I knew an economics professor. I suspect many Brown students go on for masters degrees in forestry or divinity, or take low-paying jobs at liberal nonprofits. That drags down the avererage salary. If anything, it would help you stand out at Brown.

That is important. The average salary is based on the average student. Some colleges and majors are more selective, or attract business-oriented students. But that does not mean you will get a higher salary by going there.

Finally, comparing Northwestern to Northeastern is ludicrous. Northwestern has dozens of Nobel laureates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation


WTF is wrong with you? I asked you multiple times for the number of econ grad and number of business grads for T25 schools.
You just keep repeating the same bullshit without a single reference or resource when I took my time to give you sources and actual numbers.

You brought in schools like Northwestern and Brown and claim its econ is better. I showed you actual numbers that clearly business majors are better, and now you are whining about cost of living LOL. Novel pierce has nothing to do with undergrad outcome.
Northeastern's major metrics are on par with Northwestern such as the outcome at $80K, retention rate, student quality based on test scores.

Anonymous
Post 11/30/2022 18:00     Subject: colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:It turns out Northeastern has been gaming the ratings.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/

I don't think I have ever met a professor or Wall Street colleague from there. I don't recall any research accolades for their business school, math, or science. There might be a few good, sincere scholars. But they are not an intellectual powerhouse like the Top 25.


We are not talking about some subjective college rankings.

We are talking about real numbers you can't game.

Anonymous
Post 11/30/2022 17:57     Subject: colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:It turns out Northeastern has been gaming the ratings.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/

I don't think I have ever met a professor or Wall Street colleague from there. I don't recall any research accolades for their business school, math, or science. There might be a few good, sincere scholars. But they are not an intellectual powerhouse like the Top 25.


What the market thinks and what they actually willing to pay is the most accurate assessment.

Northeastern $80K
Northwestern $80K
Brown $79K

You can't game this.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Anonymous
Post 11/30/2022 17:13     Subject: colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
It turns out Northeastern has been gaming the ratings.

https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/

I don't think I have ever met a professor or Wall Street colleague from there. I don't recall any research accolades for their business school, math, or science. There might be a few good, sincere scholars. But they are not an intellectual powerhouse like the Top 25.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2022 20:54     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Northwestern and Brown overall are on par with schools like Northeastern and below Boston College.

NYU Business: $93.6K
Notre Dame Finance: $96K
Berkeley Business: $95k
Boston College Finance: $94.6k
UVA Business: $96K
Georgetown Finance: $107K


You are sophomoric and sloppy. For example, I edited your post because you listed Berkeley twice.

Let me review your conceptual error regarding business placement. https://www.businessinsider.com/best-college-major-for-wall-street-2016-8

Roughly 50% of Wall Street jobs went to business majors, and 20% to economics majors. You think that means business is the best path to Wall Street. But you overlooked that fact that there are over 10 times as many business majors as economics majors. For example, suppose there are 100 jobs available, there are 500 economics graduates, and 5,000 business graduates. Business graduates get 50 jobs on Wall Street; that is 1% of business graduates. Economics graduates get 20 jobs; that is 4% of economics graduates. So, economics graduates have 4 times the chance of landing on Wall Street. Physics and applied math graduates are greatly overrepresented too.

Think about how selection bias affects those numbers. NYU, Columbia (NYC), Berkeley (Silicon Valley), Northeastern, Boston College (Boston), and Georgetown (DC northeast corridor) are in expensive areas. Northwestern and Notre Dame have impressive numbers considering their placements in the midwest. I know Georgetown has good placement. Virginia probably places students near D.C. or northeast.

I'm not sure about Brown, although my Maryland friend transferred there and I knew an economics professor. I suspect many Brown students go on for masters degrees in forestry or divinity, or take low-paying jobs at liberal nonprofits. That drags down the avererage salary. If anything, it would help you stand out at Brown.

That is important. The average salary is based on the average student. Some colleges and majors are more selective, or attract business-oriented students. But that does not mean you will get a higher salary by going there.

Finally, comparing Northwestern to Northeastern is ludicrous. Northwestern has dozens of Nobel laureates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2022 16:45     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:Dumb question but do you generally need to have charisma, be really put-together, good looking, outgoing, etc. to get these jobs?
The kids I know fit this description but I have a very small sample.


I know way too many Indian guys at top tier shops in ny who don’t fit any of these qualifiers

Firms will take total dorks from IIT/IIM , Wharton, MIT, Columbia, Princeton orfe etc

Anonymous
Post 11/29/2022 16:40     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of truth in the old adage: Those who can work in the private sector; those who can't teach.


I’ve done both. Overall, the people who went into PhD programs in econ are smarter than those who went into banking. There are more duds among those who went into industry.


Of course they are.

But PhDs working at hedge funds are smarter than PhDs working in academia.


Which “hedge funds?” There are many mid PhD dropouts working at family offices.


Renaissance, Jane Street, Two Sigma etc. They probably make 10-20 times what Ph.Ds at academia make.


My nephew works for Jane Street - he was a physics major at Michigan (‘21 grad) and said students in his major were recruited more heavily than the business majors.


Jewish like sbf?
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2022 16:20     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Northwestern is severely overrated and over-hyped.

It's econ students are obviously behind business students from NYU, Georgetown, Cornell, Notre Dame, UVA, Berkeley, etc. etc.

Still waiting for numbers for Econ graduates vs Business graduates from T25 schools.



https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Then why didn't you provide the numbers?

The point of the thread was to compare opportunities at #25 UVA McIntire with opportunities at slightly higher ranked schools without business. Here are US News ranks and College Scorecard salaries:

#11 Northwestern
All: $80,033
Economics $85,909
Managerial Economics: NA

#12 Dartmouth
All: $91,627
Economics $98,252

#13 Brown
All: $78,943
Economics: $78,949
Entrepreneurship: $91,029

#18 Columbia
All: $89,871
Economics: $87,202

#25 UVA
All: $77,048
Economics: $71,811
Business (McIntire) $95,939

At most schools, Economics majors make about the same or slightly more than the average graduate. But UVA requires admission to McIntire, so their economics students are below average, and their business students are above average. Unfortunately, Northwestern does not provide salaries for their Managerial Economics track. But Brown Entrepreneurship and Small Business majors make distinctly more than Economics majors. Again, there is a selection effect. Harvard Economics majors make $100K. But if your unqualified kid somehow snuck into Harvard, then he would probably make less.

There are also geographic effects. Many Northwestern students take jobs in the midwest, where salaries and cost of living are lower. Columbia students take jobs in NYC, where salaries and cost of living are higher.

For the sake of discussion, I'll assume that financial aid packages equalize the cost of college, and assume no geographical preference. Given the noise, I don't see a lot of difference in these numbers. Yale Economics graduates make "only" $91K compared to McIntire's $96K. Does that mean your kid should turn down Yale? I don't think so!

Again, I think the opportunities outside business are important. If you might go to graduate school, then your undergrad major is less important. Obviously geography makes a difference, living in NYC vs. Charlottesville. Finally, cost could be a major consideration. These factors overwhelm the minor differences in starting salaries.



Northwestern and Brown overall are on par with schools like Northeastern and below Boston College.

Also,

NYU Business: $93.6K
Notre Dame Finance: $96K
Berkeley Business: $95k
Boston College Finance: $94.6k
Berkeley Business: $95k
UVA Business: $96K
Georgetown Finance: $107K

Thank you for reiterating and confirming all the facts and points I have made.
Whoever's keep saying bullshit, Stop
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2022 14:11     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Northwestern is severely overrated and over-hyped.

It's econ students are obviously behind business students from NYU, Georgetown, Cornell, Notre Dame, UVA, Berkeley, etc. etc.

Still waiting for numbers for Econ graduates vs Business graduates from T25 schools.



https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/

Then why didn't you provide the numbers?

The point of the thread was to compare opportunities at #25 UVA McIntire with opportunities at slightly higher ranked schools without business. Here are US News ranks and College Scorecard salaries:

#11 Northwestern
All: $80,033
Economics $85,909
Managerial Economics: NA

#12 Dartmouth
All: $91,627
Economics $98,252

#13 Brown
All: $78,943
Economics: $78,949
Entrepreneurship: $91,029

#18 Columbia
All: $89,871
Economics: $87,202

#25 UVA
All: $77,048
Economics: $71,811
Business (McIntire) $95,939

At most schools, Economics majors make about the same or slightly more than the average graduate. But UVA requires admission to McIntire, so their economics students are below average, and their business students are above average. Unfortunately, Northwestern does not provide salaries for their Managerial Economics track. But Brown Entrepreneurship and Small Business majors make distinctly more than Economics majors. Again, there is a selection effect. Harvard Economics majors make $100K. But if your unqualified kid somehow snuck into Harvard, then he would probably make less.

There are also geographic effects. Many Northwestern students take jobs in the midwest, where salaries and cost of living are lower. Columbia students take jobs in NYC, where salaries and cost of living are higher.

For the sake of discussion, I'll assume that financial aid packages equalize the cost of college, and assume no geographical preference. Given the noise, I don't see a lot of difference in these numbers. Yale Economics graduates make "only" $91K compared to McIntire's $96K. Does that mean your kid should turn down Yale? I don't think so!

Again, I think the opportunities outside business are important. If you might go to graduate school, then your undergrad major is less important. Obviously geography makes a difference, living in NYC vs. Charlottesville. Finally, cost could be a major consideration. These factors overwhelm the minor differences in starting salaries.
Anonymous
Post 11/29/2022 07:46     Subject: Re:colleges outside top 25 (and not a nescac) that place well in finance..
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of truth in the old adage: Those who can work in the private sector; those who can't teach.


I’ve done both. Overall, the people who went into PhD programs in econ are smarter than those who went into banking. There are more duds among those who went into industry.


Of course they are.

But PhDs working at hedge funds are smarter than PhDs working in academia.


Which “hedge funds?” There are many mid PhD dropouts working at family offices.


Renaissance, Jane Street, Two Sigma etc. They probably make 10-20 times what Ph.Ds at academia make.


My nephew works for Jane Street - he was a physics major at Michigan (‘21 grad) and said students in his major were recruited more heavily than the business majors.