Anonymous
11/10/2022 17:18
Subject: Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:There’s a celebration of victimhood in our culture today, especially for our young people. There’s little talk about character or rising above one’s circumstances.
So much this!!
Anonymous
11/10/2022 16:47
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:NP. I was wondering the same thing. It was a new one for me.Anonymous wrote:AC..adult child. Also the name of this forum
Should we read anything into the switch from DC (dear child)?
Anonymous
11/10/2022 07:43
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
NP. I was wondering the same thing. It was a new one for me.Anonymous wrote:AC..adult child. Also the name of this forum
Anonymous
11/10/2022 05:12
Subject: Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the "parenting shortcomings" you have conceded to?
Still no answer to this. Hm.
Sorry. OP here. I apologized for not getting her art lessons. We did piano instead. BC that's what she wanted at the time. I apologized for us not having a lot more money so we could pay for art school. I apologized for not being artistic myself BC she said I don't understand her artistic soul. I've apologized for her not having a good grandmother. I've apologized for not encouraging her to apply to julliard. She said years later that she had wanted to be a concert pianist. But she didn't practice that much. She had mentioned julliard once and I gave her a lightly skeptical look. I've also apologized for choosing to have child/her. I've apologized for not being a trust fund family. I've apologized for not handling her teenage tantrums better. As a teen she would get so angry and complain rant. I never liked to engage with her so I'd tell her I couldnt talk with her until she calmed down. She is angry about that BC she said talking would have calmed her. There is a lot more but that's the general gist. I've also apologized for not being the mother she wanted.
I
Most of that's irrelevant stuff. Apologies were not warranted and I doubt they could have been very sincere. What really went on in your house that you produced a daughter who is obviously flailing sand throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks? You seem to be seeking validation there with a modified limited hangout.
Do you really think there are people out there who are doing evil things to their kids, then pretending they gave them a perfect childhood? Because the reality is that most people are doing the best they can. What are you looking for here? What kind of things do you think OP should admit, that she's "hiding"? You attitude is as juvenile as OP's DD's.
DP. Yes, 100%, there are. And I’m not Gen Z, but a married GenX parent.
Same. Gen X who has diagnosed C-PTSD from parent who was mentally ill and abusive but thought she was a paragon of virtue. Mind f- ing craziness. Trust, she said all the things about all the best intentions and efforts. Also trust, she ruled by fear and a few other emotions, such as pity and compassion, that a parent should not tap their child for. It was a hell that looked real good for outside appearances, so I got obsessed with outside appearances, since that was all that mattered.
OP here. My own mother (since deceased) who was borderline with narcissistic qualities. Appearance was everything and from the outside we looked the part. Even up til the end of her life my mother thought she was the virtue of selfless motherhood. Even though behind closed doors things were a mess. Even though my mother was on multiple medications, mood stabilizers etc which didn't do much imo. She never ever acknowledged that she had an issue. It was always her victimhood and every one else to blame. Fly off the handle and go on a raging rant? It's BC you didn't get a better grade in your math test. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
But yes I totally understand and expect people would be skeptical of me BC obviously this is an ounce forum and you don't know me from Bob. And abusive, truly abusive parents are great at modelling the image and controlling the narrative.
In my real life, with my friends, I am not open about this.bc if the stigma associated with it and honestly it's pretty shocking. I've told two of my closer friends who knew me well as we raised our children together. My two that I confided in were pretty much speechless and confused.
Thank-you all for your thoughtful responses. You're all well intentioned and I even need to hear constructive criticism too. I do think I'll pull back from her and not get so stuck in the weeds. But a personality disorders is incredibly difficult to deal with.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 22:17
Subject: Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the "parenting shortcomings" you have conceded to?
Still no answer to this. Hm.
Sorry. OP here. I apologized for not getting her art lessons. We did piano instead. BC that's what she wanted at the time. I apologized for us not having a lot more money so we could pay for art school. I apologized for not being artistic myself BC she said I don't understand her artistic soul. I've apologized for her not having a good grandmother. I've apologized for not encouraging her to apply to julliard. She said years later that she had wanted to be a concert pianist. But she didn't practice that much. She had mentioned julliard once and I gave her a lightly skeptical look. I've also apologized for choosing to have child/her. I've apologized for not being a trust fund family. I've apologized for not handling her teenage tantrums better. As a teen she would get so angry and complain rant. I never liked to engage with her so I'd tell her I couldnt talk with her until she calmed down. She is angry about that BC she said talking would have calmed her. There is a lot more but that's the general gist. I've also apologized for not being the mother she wanted.
I
Most of that's irrelevant stuff. Apologies were not warranted and I doubt they could have been very sincere. What really went on in your house that you produced a daughter who is obviously flailing sand throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks? You seem to be seeking validation there with a modified limited hangout.
Do you really think there are people out there who are doing evil things to their kids, then pretending they gave them a perfect childhood? Because the reality is that most people are doing the best they can. What are you looking for here? What kind of things do you think OP should admit, that she's "hiding"? You attitude is as juvenile as OP's DD's.
DP. Yes, 100%, there are. And I’m not Gen Z, but a married GenX parent.
Same. Gen X who has diagnosed C-PTSD from parent who was mentally ill and abusive but thought she was a paragon of virtue. Mind f- ing craziness. Trust, she said all the things about all the best intentions and efforts. Also trust, she ruled by fear and a few other emotions, such as pity and compassion, that a parent should not tap their child for. It was a hell that looked real good for outside appearances, so I got obsessed with outside appearances, since that was all that mattered.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 22:09
Subject: Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What exactly are the "parenting shortcomings" you have conceded to?
Still no answer to this. Hm.
Sorry. OP here. I apologized for not getting her art lessons. We did piano instead. BC that's what she wanted at the time. I apologized for us not having a lot more money so we could pay for art school. I apologized for not being artistic myself BC she said I don't understand her artistic soul. I've apologized for her not having a good grandmother. I've apologized for not encouraging her to apply to julliard. She said years later that she had wanted to be a concert pianist. But she didn't practice that much. She had mentioned julliard once and I gave her a lightly skeptical look. I've also apologized for choosing to have child/her. I've apologized for not being a trust fund family. I've apologized for not handling her teenage tantrums better. As a teen she would get so angry and complain rant. I never liked to engage with her so I'd tell her I couldnt talk with her until she calmed down. She is angry about that BC she said talking would have calmed her. There is a lot more but that's the general gist. I've also apologized for not being the mother she wanted.
I
Most of that's irrelevant stuff. Apologies were not warranted and I doubt they could have been very sincere. What really went on in your house that you produced a daughter who is obviously flailing sand throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks? You seem to be seeking validation there with a modified limited hangout.
Do you really think there are people out there who are doing evil things to their kids, then pretending they gave them a perfect childhood? Because the reality is that most people are doing the best they can. What are you looking for here? What kind of things do you think OP should admit, that she's "hiding"? You attitude is as juvenile as OP's DD's.
DP. Yes, 100%, there are. And I’m not Gen Z, but a married GenX parent.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 21:59
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
I'm the person who brought up the estranged parents stuff, and let's say we lay off of it, because it won't serve OP. My point, which was made recklessly, is that OP does NOT fit the pattern of an abusive parent who is obfuscating her abuse. OP has the very odd and seldom case that it isn't her fault -- she's got a kid with a personality disorder. The estranged part relates to her only in that her DD threatened it, but the AC DD will never cut off her mother unless her mother has nothing left to offer her, which is never, so that is not happening.
OP, I am sorry for the confusion that I created. There are people here with various agendas. My agenda has to do with personality disorders/abuse/trauma etc, but I recognized your daughter immediately and had to tell you -- she is a BPD.
OP, I am sorry for the confusion that I created. There are people here with various agendas. My agenda has to do with personality disorders/abuse/trauma etc, but I recognized your daughter immediately and had to tell you -- she is a BPD.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 21:29
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are abusive parents out there who come to online forums for "help" and OP does not fit the pattern. The pattern of abusive parents: They "have no idea why" the child has a problem. The child was "always difficult." Nothing is ever the parent's fault. The child is somehow defective.
OP has been very forthcoming, and this is the odd case where I think it's the kid (genetic personality disorder).
Why would you assume those are abusive parents?
A study of estranged parents showed that they all "had no idea" despite having written or texted correspondence telling them. I am talking about the types who show up even though not invited, who harrass grandchildren even though asked to step back, etc. You can assume they were abusive, just from present behavior ( not respecting boundaries) as much as the fact they are cut off. Abusive means emotional/mental as well as physical/sexual.
Huh? What in the world are you talking about?
DP. Here you go. https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
What is Issendai? This "article" is crap. I was expecting an actual study, not a bunch of quotes cherry picked from an online forum, strung together to bolster a preconceived idea. I had to stop reading it. No one who considers themselves honestly interested in the subject would take seriously an article written in such a one-sided and simplistic manner. I'm actually estranged from my one living parent, and I find so much of the what passes for thought and introspection on DCUM about estrangement to be nonsense. This is just more of the same. It makes me feel sorry for these parents, really. I get that's not what the author or you want, but that's my response. These poor people, obviously living in agony, only to be mocked. The estranged kids sound far from noble victims. They sound like people completely indifferent to the suffering they themselves are causing their parents. I guess the tables have turned and now it's their turn to dish it out. That's not growth. That's the typical pattern when one is abused. Sorry to break it to you.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 20:57
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are abusive parents out there who come to online forums for "help" and OP does not fit the pattern. The pattern of abusive parents: They "have no idea why" the child has a problem. The child was "always difficult." Nothing is ever the parent's fault. The child is somehow defective.
OP has been very forthcoming, and this is the odd case where I think it's the kid (genetic personality disorder).
Why would you assume those are abusive parents?
A study of estranged parents showed that they all "had no idea" despite having written or texted correspondence telling them. I am talking about the types who show up even though not invited, who harrass grandchildren even though asked to step back, etc. You can assume they were abusive, just from present behavior ( not respecting boundaries) as much as the fact they are cut off. Abusive means emotional/mental as well as physical/sexual.
Huh? What in the world are you talking about?
DP. Here you go. https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html
Anonymous
11/09/2022 18:54
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
It's possible that she did experience some trauma that she is subconsciously blocking out and in trying to figure out why she feels the way she does, this is the "safe" thing she landed on.
I agree with PP that OP doesn't fit the pattern of an abusive parent.
OP, my two cents is that you're getting too much in the weeds with her on these issues and when you point out something like her own drinking or misuse of terminology like the roommate causing her trauma, it's making her dig in even more on her own beliefs. You can step back a bit but still be loving toward her. I'd back off on immediately replying to her texts. She needs to experience those types of things and figure them out on their own - and eventually she may see a pattern in her interactions with people, but it could take a long time.
I agree with PP that OP doesn't fit the pattern of an abusive parent.
OP, my two cents is that you're getting too much in the weeds with her on these issues and when you point out something like her own drinking or misuse of terminology like the roommate causing her trauma, it's making her dig in even more on her own beliefs. You can step back a bit but still be loving toward her. I'd back off on immediately replying to her texts. She needs to experience those types of things and figure them out on their own - and eventually she may see a pattern in her interactions with people, but it could take a long time.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 18:15
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the girl is BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder -- not bipolar!! Very different!) My mom has this, and apparently made up that her parents were abusive and her childhood was miserable. I mean, she may have been miserable, and her parents were not perfect, but her depictions of it are self serving, for sympathy and credit and all of that. She's got siblings, and they have very different and more believable perspectives (yes, siblings have varied experiences in dysfunctional households, but hang on a minute).BPDs happen in dysfunctional families but also healthy-enough families - it's genetic and can also get kicked off by environment.
Ok, my main point is : my mother, the BPD, vilified her parents exactly the same way the OP is describing, amplifying certain things, rearranging other things, with zero shame about it, but with a major emphasis on being angry they weren't more mainstream American and richer (instead, poor white immigrants), and all of it seemed perfectly reasonable to her, to rearrange reality so that it got her attention and sympathy. AND THEN, she continued the pattern her entire life, through marriage and her kids (me) and I really, actually and truly suffer from it. She was a nightmare parent.
This story, OP, about your child, could be about my mother at a young unmarried age. So advice is, look out if she gets kids. The kids will need you. My mother allowed us zero relatiobships with extended family, so this will be tricky.
OP here. I'm hoping I wouldn't see the bpd reference. I didn't share earlier. But my mother, her grandmother, was very dramatic and borderline personality disorder with victim mentality, narcissistic tendencies etc. I was fortunate to have not inherited this trait. So I cross my fingers assumed my daughter would be ok. My daughter as much as I hate to say it, reminds me so much of my own mother (her grandmother), who died years back. When my daughter was a teenager I was hoping it was a phase. Obviously things are better compared to then. But now she's mid 20s and I'm still asking, well shes young, it's a phase. I think I've been in denial. I do love her dearly, she has a lot of amazing qualities. I just hope she has a healthier outlook on life and relationships than my mother did.
I am sorry, OP. The good news about BPD is that it can be treated with a certain therapy- dialectcal I think? But the bad news is the BPD sufferer usually thinks she's OK and everyone else is the problem, and won't do it. Your daughter seems to have been in therapy though? Can't remember all you wrote, but I recall she talks about generational trauma and such. I think she has self-awareness, knows that if suffering for some reason, knows that something is not right (but wants to blame it all on you guys, lol). If you could convince her to get into the right kind of therapy, it might save her from destroying all her relationships over the rest of her life. Therapists are actually good at recognizing BPD, but might not tell the patient or suggest the correct therapy for some time.
Anonymous
11/09/2022 08:08
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:I think the girl is BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder -- not bipolar!! Very different!) My mom has this, and apparently made up that her parents were abusive and her childhood was miserable. I mean, she may have been miserable, and her parents were not perfect, but her depictions of it are self serving, for sympathy and credit and all of that. She's got siblings, and they have very different and more believable perspectives (yes, siblings have varied experiences in dysfunctional households, but hang on a minute).BPDs happen in dysfunctional families but also healthy-enough families - it's genetic and can also get kicked off by environment.
Ok, my main point is : my mother, the BPD, vilified her parents exactly the same way the OP is describing, amplifying certain things, rearranging other things, with zero shame about it, but with a major emphasis on being angry they weren't more mainstream American and richer (instead, poor white immigrants), and all of it seemed perfectly reasonable to her, to rearrange reality so that it got her attention and sympathy. AND THEN, she continued the pattern her entire life, through marriage and her kids (me) and I really, actually and truly suffer from it. She was a nightmare parent.
This story, OP, about your child, could be about my mother at a young unmarried age. So advice is, look out if she gets kids. The kids will need you. My mother allowed us zero relatiobships with extended family, so this will be tricky.
OP here. I'm hoping I wouldn't see the bpd reference. I didn't share earlier. But my mother, her grandmother, was very dramatic and borderline personality disorder with victim mentality, narcissistic tendencies etc. I was fortunate to have not inherited this trait. So I cross my fingers assumed my daughter would be ok. My daughter as much as I hate to say it, reminds me so much of my own mother (her grandmother), who died years back. When my daughter was a teenager I was hoping it was a phase. Obviously things are better compared to then. But now she's mid 20s and I'm still asking, well shes young, it's a phase. I think I've been in denial. I do love her dearly, she has a lot of amazing qualities. I just hope she has a healthier outlook on life and relationships than my mother did.
Anonymous
11/08/2022 21:44
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are abusive parents out there who come to online forums for "help" and OP does not fit the pattern. The pattern of abusive parents: They "have no idea why" the child has a problem. The child was "always difficult." Nothing is ever the parent's fault. The child is somehow defective.
OP has been very forthcoming, and this is the odd case where I think it's the kid (genetic personality disorder).
Why would you assume those are abusive parents?
A study of estranged parents showed that they all "had no idea" despite having written or texted correspondence telling them. I am talking about the types who show up even though not invited, who harrass grandchildren even though asked to step back, etc. You can assume they were abusive, just from present behavior ( not respecting boundaries) as much as the fact they are cut off. Abusive means emotional/mental as well as physical/sexual.
Huh? What in the world are you talking about?
Anonymous
11/08/2022 21:38
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:There are abusive parents out there who come to online forums for "help" and OP does not fit the pattern. The pattern of abusive parents: They "have no idea why" the child has a problem. The child was "always difficult." Nothing is ever the parent's fault. The child is somehow defective.
OP has been very forthcoming, and this is the odd case where I think it's the kid (genetic personality disorder).
Why would you assume those are abusive parents?
A study of estranged parents showed that they all "had no idea" despite having written or texted correspondence telling them. I am talking about the types who show up even though not invited, who harrass grandchildren even though asked to step back, etc. You can assume they were abusive, just from present behavior ( not respecting boundaries) as much as the fact they are cut off. Abusive means emotional/mental as well as physical/sexual.
Anonymous
11/08/2022 21:30
Subject: Re:Young AC tells friends that dad is a recovering alcoholic
Anonymous wrote:There are abusive parents out there who come to online forums for "help" and OP does not fit the pattern. The pattern of abusive parents: They "have no idea why" the child has a problem. The child was "always difficult." Nothing is ever the parent's fault. The child is somehow defective.
OP has been very forthcoming, and this is the odd case where I think it's the kid (genetic personality disorder).
Why would you assume those are abusive parents?