If league age was age as of August 1st many of the problems identified in this thread disappear. Not sure why they didn't make that the cut-off years ago.

Anonymous wrote:My kid has a mid july birthday and this was his first year doing summer swim. He loved it and turned 8 this year so yes, next year he will be one of the oldest kids in the division and will have a great chance at getting some good times and places next year when he swims in the 8&U as a 8y11m old. But you know what, they've never had a birthday with their friends since everyone is gone at that time so he had a great day celebrating his birthday with his swim team friends at a meet. They will also be one of the last ones to get their drivers license etc from their grade-mates, etc. So let them have this one opportunity to enjoy it

But this is not swim. Swim has you competing against kids that are your age. This was not the way NVSL used to be when I grew up swimming here. You aged up when you -- oh, AGED up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So if you use actual birthdays, kids who have a birthday between divisional and all stars are just SOL in the years that they move from 25s to 50s? Do those kids not compete in relay carnivals or will they just forfeit if they make all stars? The current system works fine, kids advantaged by it are disadvantaged in other sports and vice versa. There are enough sports with enough different cut offs that you should be able to find one that works for your kid if you care that much.

Read back a few pages, someone brought this exact point up and several folks on here said that the kid who aged up between the relay carnival and all stars should absolutely give up their spot on the relay team to a kid that was the "correct age." If the leagues wants to change the date, go for it. But it should not occur during the summer swim season itself, its confusing and would be a nightmare for all the parent reps volunteers.

If they wanted EQUITY - if a kids birthday falls between June 1 and All Stars they start the season at that age. That would have made a lot more sense. Then you don't have a 19 year D1 swimmer swimming or a 13 year old swimming in that 11-12s.

THAT is what the rule should be and makes far more sense and something to lobby for.

The fact that you can have D1 swimmers swimming after a year of college level training is absurd, but the easiest fix for that is to just bar swimmers more than 1 year removed from high school graduation

Most D1 kids do not want to come back after swimming a year in college to swim on an NVSL team.

We had THREE kids come back to swim that were D1 swimmers. It was insane. It crushed our older kids who had been waiting for their chance to be a star and the coaches swam the college kids!!!! It was so ridiculous and wrong.

My kid has a mid july birthday and this was his first year doing summer swim. He loved it and turned 8 this year so yes, next year he will be one of the oldest kids in the division and will have a great chance at getting some good times and places next year when he swims in the 8&U as a 8y11m old. But you know what, they've never had a birthday with their friends since everyone is gone at that time so he had a great day celebrating his birthday with his swim team friends at a meet. They will also be one of the last ones to get their drivers license etc from their grade-mates, etc. So let them have this one opportunity to enjoy it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you use actual birthdays, kids who have a birthday between divisional and all stars are just SOL in the years that they move from 25s to 50s? Do those kids not compete in relay carnivals or will they just forfeit if they make all stars? The current system works fine, kids advantaged by it are disadvantaged in other sports and vice versa. There are enough sports with enough different cut offs that you should be able to find one that works for your kid if you care that much.

Read back a few pages, someone brought this exact point up and several folks on here said that the kid who aged up between the relay carnival and all stars should absolutely give up their spot on the relay team to a kid that was the "correct age." If the leagues wants to change the date, go for it. But it should not occur during the summer swim season itself, its confusing and would be a nightmare for all the parent reps volunteers.

If they wanted EQUITY - if a kids birthday falls between June 1 and All Stars they start the season at that age. That would have made a lot more sense. Then you don't have a 19 year D1 swimmer swimming or a 13 year old swimming in that 11-12s.

THAT is what the rule should be and makes far more sense and something to lobby for.

The fact that you can have D1 swimmers swimming after a year of college level training is absurd, but the easiest fix for that is to just bar swimmers more than 1 year removed from high school graduation

Most D1 kids do not want to come back after swimming a year in college to swim on an NVSL team.

We've had two girls do it since my now 11 started swimming. Both were assistant coaches who swam in meets, relays, divisionals, and all stars

Anonymous wrote:The rule really disadvantages the kids w/ May birthdays. If kids just swam their actual age like they used to before 2009, the swim meets would be so much more inclusive. At our pool, the same kids swim 2 events each so there is no room for one of the truly 12 year olds to compete in A meets. I never realized how many summer birthdays there are until summer swim. Luckily winter swim is fair in that each swimmer competes according to actual birthdate.

and if my kids was on your team and he turned 13 on August 5th/just after the season you would probably still complain because he was on the older side and you kid just wasn't fast enough to beat him and make an A meet.

FWIW I have a kid who is on the younger side/later March Birthday and he has swum in ever A meet since he started summer swim. And no he is not a big kid, actually in 25th percentile for height and weigh. It is not all just about age.

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Anonymous wrote:You swim mommies are annoying AF. Such whiners. It is a sport where they swim the length of a pool and back. Who gives a crap about the birthdays. Can you not make anything fun? Is everything a competition in your poor kids life? Swim team is supposed to be enjoyable. Parents ruin everything

I cannot like this post enough! Thank you, summer swim is for fun and its a short little season with short distances so that it is accessibly to all kids. It's weird that people bring winter swim examples into this at all. The vast majority of summer swim kids don't swim year round. They are there to cheer, have fun and hang out with friends.

For some kids, it’s a record that they could break or a meet they could make or a relay they could be on but for…

It’s the rule. It 100% favors some kids. It won’t change so we have to accept it. But for a club swimmer who works hard all year, it’s a tough thing to accept when you see a kid break an NVSL record and he’s already the next age and your club swimmer, who swims nearly an identical time but was born 2 weeks earlier, it’s much more than a 25 meter swim. For a club swimmer with a bad swim birthday, that birthday haunts them for nearly every meet, all year.

and the boy who holds every 15-18 record set all of the records when he was 16. So stop think that age has everything to do with it.

One thing I noticed at all stars and seeing the kids on the podium was that swimmers come in all shapes and sizes. The kids who are physically bigger aren't always the fastest.

Age also doesn't predict physical maturity or puberty. Some kids hit puberty later and some earlier. Are we going to start testing testosterone levels now too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you use actual birthdays, kids who have a birthday between divisional and all stars are just SOL in the years that they move from 25s to 50s? Do those kids not compete in relay carnivals or will they just forfeit if they make all stars? The current system works fine, kids advantaged by it are disadvantaged in other sports and vice versa. There are enough sports with enough different cut offs that you should be able to find one that works for your kid if you care that much.

Read back a few pages, someone brought this exact point up and several folks on here said that the kid who aged up between the relay carnival and all stars should absolutely give up their spot on the relay team to a kid that was the "correct age." If the leagues wants to change the date, go for it. But it should not occur during the summer swim season itself, its confusing and would be a nightmare for all the parent reps volunteers.

If they wanted EQUITY - if a kids birthday falls between June 1 and All Stars they start the season at that age. That would have made a lot more sense. Then you don't have a 19 year D1 swimmer swimming or a 13 year old swimming in that 11-12s.

THAT is what the rule should be and makes far more sense and something to lobby for.

The fact that you can have D1 swimmers swimming after a year of college level training is absurd, but the easiest fix for that is to just bar swimmers more than 1 year removed from high school graduation

Most D1 kids do not want to come back after swimming a year in college to swim on an NVSL team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am amazed how you know all these other kids birthdays. I know the birthday of my kid and the kids of my 2 friends that go to our pool. My kid did all star relays yesterday and I have no idea the birthdays/ages of the other kids in her relay. Maybe u all should volunteer your time in better ways towards the swim team as a while rather than worrying about birthdays.

There are parents who stalk the website that lists the scores/information of the kids online. They monitor all the times/ages. Its a bit creepy.

Actually, all the kids know each other's birthdays. If you think they aren't aware of who the "aged up" kids swimming in the younger group are, you're really wrong. It stinks to lose a relay or divisional spot to a kid who is older than their age group. The mixed age relay is a big sore spot for a lot of teams for this exact reason.

Our mixed age consisted of a 9-10, who was actually 10, an 11-12 who was 13, a 13-14 who was actually 15 and an 18 year old.

Half of the mixed age kids were actually a year older and you can TELL. They looked like giants compared to the kids in the actual age group and are in an older grade. The 13 year old was the only middle school kid in 11-12. It is just weird.

Anonymous wrote:Won’t some swimmer always have an advantage? I guess swimmers with August bdays will be the “oldest” if the “age as of June 1” rule is no longer in place. And if you all are sincere about ‘fairness’ would’t single year age groups also be on your agenda? Is it ‘fair’ for my 7 year old to swim against your 8 year old? And what about that 15-18 year age group? Those poor 15 and 16 year olds have zero chance of making it to all stars. So unfair.

Yes, but their advantage is based on their actual birthday. Not whether it falls before or after June 1st. That's the ridiculous part.

Well NVSL leadership is old and dated, they are not up with anything. It was tough for them to change the rule before, but the old guard benefitted from it and drove it through.

The rule was not supposed to make the vote but some key individuals pushed it through along with some better rules as well.

Since NVSL is never on these boards or reads them, there is little reason to think that the rule will go back to the original.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am amazed how you know all these other kids birthdays. I know the birthday of my kid and the kids of my 2 friends that go to our pool. My kid did all star relays yesterday and I have no idea the birthdays/ages of the other kids in her relay. Maybe u all should volunteer your time in better ways towards the swim team as a while rather than worrying about birthdays.

There are parents who stalk the website that lists the scores/information of the kids online. They monitor all the times/ages. Its a bit creepy.

Actually, all the kids know each other's birthdays. If you think they aren't aware of who the "aged up" kids swimming in the younger group are, you're really wrong. It stinks to lose a relay or divisional spot to a kid who is older than their age group. The mixed age relay is a big sore spot for a lot of teams for this exact reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You swim mommies are annoying AF. Such whiners. It is a sport where they swim the length of a pool and back. Who gives a crap about the birthdays. Can you not make anything fun? Is everything a competition in your poor kids life? Swim team is supposed to be enjoyable. Parents ruin everything

I cannot like this post enough! Thank you, summer swim is for fun and its a short little season with short distances so that it is accessibly to all kids. It's weird that people bring winter swim examples into this at all. The vast majority of summer swim kids don't swim year round. They are there to cheer, have fun and hang out with friends.

For some kids, it’s a record that they could break or a meet they could make or a relay they could be on but for…

It’s the rule. It 100% favors some kids. It won’t change so we have to accept it. But for a club swimmer who works hard all year, it’s a tough thing to accept when you see a kid break an NVSL record and he’s already the next age and your club swimmer, who swims nearly an identical time but was born 2 weeks earlier, it’s much more than a 25 meter swim. For a club swimmer with a bad swim birthday, that birthday haunts them for nearly every meet, all year.

I'm the PP. I totally get where you are coming from here. It is your child's chosen sport so he/she sees these kids marching into summer swim from year round competitive swim and crushing records when in winter swim they have aged out of that bracket.

I am viewing through the lens of a parent whose kid doesn't swim year round so to me it just seems silly and chaotic for a Rec league that lasts 5-7 weeks to have a bunch of kids moving in and out of age brackets in a short amount of time. Particularly for kids who have to move from 25s to 50s or 100s in the middle of the summer when they only swim for a few weeks and they swim for fun, I guarantee many would quit and they are the bedrock of recreational summer swim. Please keep in mind that my kids are watching all the year round swimmers, yours included, regardless of when they turn x age march into the recreational summer swim league and crush records, make all stars or divisionals because the distances are much shorter and easier for those kids.

None of us should lose sight that summer swim is meant to be a fun bonding experience for all the kids who enjoy swimming.

My child has an advantageous summer birthday but unfortunately is late on the puberty end. I'm not exxagerating when I say she has swum against a girl in her age group who was 17 inches taller and 100 pounds heavier. (She was 6'0" as a 12 year old).

Maybe to make things fair, we should do bone age scans and separate early and late puberty kids. /s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if you use actual birthdays, kids who have a birthday between divisional and all stars are just SOL in the years that they move from 25s to 50s? Do those kids not compete in relay carnivals or will they just forfeit if they make all stars? The current system works fine, kids advantaged by it are disadvantaged in other sports and vice versa. There are enough sports with enough different cut offs that you should be able to find one that works for your kid if you care that much.

Read back a few pages, someone brought this exact point up and several folks on here said that the kid who aged up between the relay carnival and all stars should absolutely give up their spot on the relay team to a kid that was the "correct age." If the leagues wants to change the date, go for it. But it should not occur during the summer swim season itself, its confusing and would be a nightmare for all the parent reps volunteers.

If they wanted EQUITY - if a kids birthday falls between June 1 and All Stars they start the season at that age. That would have made a lot more sense. Then you don't have a 19 year D1 swimmer swimming or a 13 year old swimming in that 11-12s.

THAT is what the rule should be and makes far more sense and something to lobby for.

This sounds like a great rule and would keep kids with their classmates. This sounds far more reasonable.