Some great points here and I don’t mean to be a bomb-thrower but I’ve thought a lot about the subject with two kids in Maryland public schools - with high teacher pay, professionalization of profession, unionized etc. Fact: Florida 4th graders in 2019 placed 5th in the nation on mathematics (just after Virginia). Maryland 4th graders placed 35th - just after kids from Hawaii. This is pre-COVID so should be fairer. Both states have high immigrant populations. Picked 4th grade since kids should feel comfortable with school - yet it’s math so has to be instructed. My point: I would trust Florida education officials over Maryland’s in a friggin New York minute given their results on NAEP for a third of the money spent. This move will work out just fine for the public school students of Florida.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think teachers should have BAs if they are teaching a subject to a higher grade, but ES? I don't know that the BA is as necessary as other skills that military people tend to be indoctrinated with.

I've taught middle school and elementary school, everything from special ed to honors classes. You need an understanding of child development to be able to create and implement lessons that meet kids where they are. You need to know what skills they must have mastered before they can tackle other skills. You need to be able to teach kids to think critically to solve problems. They need to be able to determine for themselves whether they've written a sentence that communicates effectively, whether their answer to a math problem is logical or outrageous, whether the sentence they just read makes sense and why characters may act the way they do. They need to be able to develop their own scientific theories and understand what can happen when two substances mix. They grasp the many reasons for the Civil War and understand how our government works. It's so much more than just direct instruction of information, even when the content itself isn't challenging to the average adult.

100%!!

I’m pretty sure at the height of the pandemic, the schools were screaming for parents to volunteer to teach. Challenge accepted.
Im not sure how creative and deep thinking teachers get to be these days when they are handed curriculum that is so inflexible that it’s lessons in a box which have to be followed.
Substitutes already were hired with minimal qualifications.

The staff shortages are here. You can’t then choose who to backfill positions with. It’s hire who you can and work with it or close schools and issue vouchers.

What do people expect?

I have elementary curriculum that could be taught without a deep knowledge of the subject matter. However, reading the embedded questions without a deep interest in the subject matter or an understanding of the specific pedagogy for my particular subject area will not work well and will hardly inspire young learners. The creativity comes into play when a bright teacher who cares about the subject takes it a few steps further and allows discussions to get pretty deep or creative or far out. That teacher will also bring it to life with hands-on experiences when feasible. Boxed curricula can be spiced up quite a bit to engage students. When time is the limiting factor, I drop some of the least interesting/helpful parts of the set curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think teachers should have BAs if they are teaching a subject to a higher grade, but ES? I don't know that the BA is as necessary as other skills that military people tend to be indoctrinated with.

I've taught middle school and elementary school, everything from special ed to honors classes. You need an understanding of child development to be able to create and implement lessons that meet kids where they are. You need to know what skills they must have mastered before they can tackle other skills. You need to be able to teach kids to think critically to solve problems. They need to be able to determine for themselves whether they've written a sentence that communicates effectively, whether their answer to a math problem is logical or outrageous, whether the sentence they just read makes sense and why characters may act the way they do. They need to be able to develop their own scientific theories and understand what can happen when two substances mix. They grasp the many reasons for the Civil War and understand how our government works. It's so much more than just direct instruction of information, even when the content itself isn't challenging to the average adult.

100%!!

I’m pretty sure at the height of the pandemic, the schools were screaming for parents to volunteer to teach. Challenge accepted.
Im not sure how creative and deep thinking teachers get to be these days when they are handed curriculum that is so inflexible that it’s lessons in a box which have to be followed.
Substitutes already were hired with minimal qualifications.

The staff shortages are here. You can’t then choose who to backfill positions with. It’s hire who you can and work with it or close schools and issue vouchers.

What do people expect?

The districts wouldn't need to be creative if they raised pay big time and got rid of all of the nonsense that drives teachers away (excessive testing is a big one).

Anonymous wrote:People love to crow about Florida having no income taxes. Well, this is what happens. Their schools are pretty lousy. They have year round schooling in most areas to alleviate the overcrowding. And this…well, you get what you paid for.

+1. Everyone I know in Florida who can afford to send their kids to private schools does, because the public school are so bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think teachers should have BAs if they are teaching a subject to a higher grade, but ES? I don't know that the BA is as necessary as other skills that military people tend to be indoctrinated with.

I've taught middle school and elementary school, everything from special ed to honors classes. You need an understanding of child development to be able to create and implement lessons that meet kids where they are. You need to know what skills they must have mastered before they can tackle other skills. You need to be able to teach kids to think critically to solve problems. They need to be able to determine for themselves whether they've written a sentence that communicates effectively, whether their answer to a math problem is logical or outrageous, whether the sentence they just read makes sense and why characters may act the way they do. They need to be able to develop their own scientific theories and understand what can happen when two substances mix. They grasp the many reasons for the Civil War and understand how our government works. It's so much more than just direct instruction of information, even when the content itself isn't challenging to the average adult.

100%!!

I’m pretty sure at the height of the pandemic, the schools were screaming for parents to volunteer to teach. Challenge accepted.
Im not sure how creative and deep thinking teachers get to be these days when they are handed curriculum that is so inflexible that it’s lessons in a box which have to be followed.
Substitutes already were hired with minimal qualifications.

The staff shortages are here. You can’t then choose who to backfill positions with. It’s hire who you can and work with it or close schools and issue vouchers.

What do people expect?

Anonymous wrote:

Look, I think teachers should have BAs if they are teaching a subject to a higher grade, but ES? I don't know that the BA is as necessary as other skills that military people tend to be indoctrinated with.

I've taught middle school and elementary school, everything from special ed to honors classes. You need an understanding of child development to be able to create and implement lessons that meet kids where they are. You need to know what skills they must have mastered before they can tackle other skills. You need to be able to teach kids to think critically to solve problems. They need to be able to determine for themselves whether they've written a sentence that communicates effectively, whether their answer to a math problem is logical or outrageous, whether the sentence they just read makes sense and why characters may act the way they do. They need to be able to develop their own scientific theories and understand what can happen when two substances mix. They grasp the many reasons for the Civil War and understand how our government works. It's so much more than just direct instruction of information, even when the content itself isn't challenging to the average adult.

100%!!

To, not too (now where’s my red pen?)!

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a teacher training program that benefits veterans. Perhaps this helps address teacher shortages.

Look, I think teachers should have BAs if they are teaching a subject to a higher grade, but ES? I don't know that the BA is as necessary as other skills that military people tend to be indoctrinated with.

Elementary teacher here and I couldn’t disagree with you more. One of the main jobs of the teacher is to ask higher level thinking questions that encourage students to arrive at evidence- and experience-based accurate conclusions. This is a skill that takes awhile too develop and that is even WITH exposure to these kinds of Socratic discussions in graduate school. Good teachers are, themselves, bright and knowledgeable about effective pedagogy. This will not go well for Florida, though evidence of the poor outcomes may take a few years to show up (funny, right about the time today’s politicians will be leaving office).

I have been teaching for over 25 years.

I now have 2 Master's degrees and am certified in 4 areas.

When I started I had a bachelor's degree and no credential. I worked in a low income area that had a shortage. I was a warm body and at times, a physical target for violent students.

a) People do not want to walk into these schools. The teachers don't stay. The parents don't support the school OR their own children (and many can't). There is a lot of violence and crime (kids came to middle school high, and some had sex in the parts of the building that were "roped off" for disrepair). These are facts.

b) I have also worked with people who retired from the military in private school settings. They tend to quickly earn the respect of the parents and students. However, the solutions that work in the military to problem solve don't help children develop. You can't tell a kid "drop and give me 20" or "I don't care what your psychologist says, kid with ADHD, you will learn to listen or you will fail," and the chain of command concept in education is not how you really solve problems.

I see the where someone thought this was a good idea, because people with military experience tend to be fierce and fearless and organized. (Sweeping generalization but I stand by it, and I include military spouses-nobody can set up a classroom in 2 hours like someone who moves every 3 years....). However, you have to "undo" some things that have been drilled into their way of life that don't work in school.

People love to crow about Florida having no income taxes. Well, this is what happens. Their schools are pretty lousy. They have year round schooling in most areas to alleviate the overcrowding. And this…well, you get what you paid for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re going to teach K-3 I don’t see why a college degree would be needed given the teacher shortage. Any adult who clears a background check, and can read, write grammatically correct sentences, and do some basic math should be able to teach.

With jokers like this in public, I am so glad I am going private

Private schools very often don’t have good teachers.

Not data, thanks for playing

NP. You must be one of those poor private school teacher.

You don’t need teacher data to know if a private school has good teachers. You need salary data. My oldest just took a job with a private middle school. He has 4 years experience with a Title I high school and just finished his Masters. Pay is $88,000 plus decent benefits. School has good reputation and nice facilities. Not hard to see they are getting good staff. Wonder why that could be?

Wow! DH and I each have 20 years teaching experience with Master’s degrees and are paid less than $80k at 2 different DMV private schools with tuition rates above $40k/year. The health and retirement benefits are also a joke.

Why do you stay?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure former military are the best people for the job. School isn’t the military and students can get away with a lot due to no consequences. Military folks would be in for a rude awakening at a public school these days.

Actually, I think the misbehaving students and their parents would be the ones in for a rude awakening these days. And I will cheer it on!

The teacher would be fired.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re going to teach K-3 I don’t see why a college degree would be needed given the teacher shortage. Any adult who clears a background check, and can read, write grammatically correct sentences, and do some basic math should be able to teach.

With jokers like this in public, I am so glad I am going private

Private schools very often don’t have good teachers.

Not data, thanks for playing

NP. You must be one of those poor private school teacher.

You don’t need teacher data to know if a private school has good teachers. You need salary data. My oldest just took a job with a private middle school. He has 4 years experience with a Title I high school and just finished his Masters. Pay is $88,000 plus decent benefits. School has good reputation and nice facilities. Not hard to see they are getting good staff. Wonder why that could be?

Wow! DH and I each have 20 years teaching experience with Master’s degrees and are paid less than $80k at 2 different DMV private schools with tuition rates above $40k/year. The health and retirement benefits are also a joke.

So who’s grabbing all that tuition?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think that the best thing to do is to provide incentives for veterans to enter other public service jobs, like firefighting, police, and local, county, state government positions. We have a shortage of police officers and firefighters nationwide and we have a large workforce that came from the military that need jobs. It seems like this would be a better fit for our retiring and discharged military than public school teaching.

You’re essentially saying we should continue exploiting veterans and pay them less than they’re worth. Everyone in public service is underpaid.

Especially at the NIH.

Anonymous wrote:I personally think that the best thing to do is to provide incentives for veterans to enter other public service jobs, like firefighting, police, and local, county, state government positions. We have a shortage of police officers and firefighters nationwide and we have a large workforce that came from the military that need jobs. It seems like this would be a better fit for our retiring and discharged military than public school teaching.

You’re essentially saying we should continue exploiting veterans and pay them less than they’re worth. Everyone in public service is underpaid.