I guess on a DC board its a combination (depending on the person) of Sidwell, GDS, NCS/At Albans, Maret, Landon/Holton, Potomac.

Anonymous wrote:Would the situation be different if the applicant is a boy? Our son has about the same GPA at a Big 5 school and is also interested in Middlebury, Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton and Colgate as potential ED1 schools. We are full pay but no other hooks other than we know he will have strong recommendations. ACT score is a 33 but he may be able to bump it up to a 34 this fall. Not sure how much of a difference an extra point makes so wondering if it better that he focuses on his senior year courses so his mid-term grades are strong.

Which are the Big 5 schools ?

My guess is that you are referencing Andover, Exeter, St. Paul's, Deerfield, and Hotchkiss. Am I correct ?

Would the situation be different if the applicant is a boy? Our son has about the same GPA at a Big 5 school and is also interested in Middlebury, Bowdoin, Colby, Hamilton and Colgate as potential ED1 schools. We are full pay but no other hooks other than we know he will have strong recommendations. ACT score is a 33 but he may be able to bump it up to a 34 this fall. Not sure how much of a difference an extra point makes so wondering if it better that he focuses on his senior year courses so his mid-term grades are strong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will the Colby/Hamilton coaches provide support for ED2, assuming positive pre-reads? Typically, the slots and support are for ED1 applicants. It might be worth clarifying when you reach that conversation.

+10000

yeah, it's not really a sports mind set to go with folks who see you as second place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our DD from one of the area private schools (Top 5 according to DCUM) is really interested in Bowdoin and Middlebury. She wants to ED at one of the two schools and we are looking for guidance about which one gives a bigger bump for ED. Our DD's GPA is about 3.68. She will be going test optional. She has some sports leadership activities (Captain of teams since 11th grade) and should have excellent recommendations. At her private school, the regular admits for Bowdoin and Middlebury are around the 3.75 - 3.8 range so she is not competitive for RD. Unfortunately, there are not enough kids from her school doing ED to Bowdoin/Middlebury to get accurate Naviance data for this subset. Any anecdotal and/or factual advice would be really helpful. She honestly loved both schools from her visit and can see herself at either campus so her focus is on making the right ED decision. We are full pay if that helps.

I’ve heard of recruited athletes for NESCAC schools not passing academic pre-reads with a better gpa than 3.68. The only NESCAC schools that you are in play for are Conn College and Trinity.

I had a Class of 21 son with a 3.7 uw and a 4.2 w w/ 1310 who was considered by the Midd and Colby coaches. They both said that (even for that class, which was given a break on test scores and GPA) the pre-read wasn't positive. He ended up at another school listed in this thread with a little merit aid thrown in. It's worked out beautifully and he's getting a great education while being given a chance to play the sport he loves.

My advice is to bug the Colby/Hamilton coaches one more time on the pre-read and then move on. They may be getting better applicants, which means they aren't interested. Move on and find a similar school with a similar vibe and go live your best college life.

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Anonymous wrote:They both offer ED2, so she should apply to her preferred school ED1, plan to file to the other ED2, and have a Plan C (St. Lawrence? Whitman?) she'd be excited about.

I think she’s going to end up disappointed with this approach. I’d choose one for ED1 and then go for a more reasonable ED2. It’s really easy to get boxed out from the small lacs if you’re not in at ED. Middlebury is larger so I think it’s the better bet. Coming from a private and with athletics as her ec, she’s really not bringing much diversity from all the athletic recruits.

Exactly. Good friend's DC applied ED1 for one of those two last cycle then to a very slightly less competitive for ED2 and was boxed out - denied not just deferred - at both. Think GPA higher than OP's DC and had good test scores.

Our full pay DC had a similar (maybe slightly lower) GPA, a 34 ACT, two varsity sports but not captain, and very impressive ECs (not national level but definitely showed continuity in and connection among them). His school CC - also the office director - dissuaded DC from applying ED to one of these schools. Said that DC would get deferred in ED1 then denied in RD and asked if that is how DC wanted the ED card to play out.

If OP's DC will be unhappy if they do not try, then risk it on Middlebury as I strongly doubt Bowdoin will even consider. But then they need to have a good list in the three categories, some probable EAs, and be ready to go ED2 with a lower ranked school.

Make a concrete ED2 suggestion. The only LACs I can think of that are similar to Midd and Bowdoin but more selective than St. Lawrence and Whitman are Colby and Hamilton--neither of which is a meaningfully easier admit than Midd or Bowdoin. (I suppose maybe Kenyon, but that's a significantly different locale.) Since DD will get admitted to St. Lawrence and/or Whitman RD, why not spend her ED bullets on her actual first and second choices?

Your info on Colby and Hamilton may be a bit dated. Hamilton, in particular, is a very hot school right now and as difficult to get into than Middlebury. Colby just behind. Fact is the majority of NESCACs are very difficult to get into.

OP, if your DC is a half full, then go for it. If your kid is a half empty, then maybe talk them through the possible ripple effect going into ED2. I mentioned in an earlier thread, that a BFF's DD EDed at one of the schools your DD really wants. Was outright rejected (with higher GPA and test score), then rejected at all the rest of the schools you've mentioned here in ED2 and RD. I think this can really happen to girls.

Anonymous wrote:Will the Colby/Hamilton coaches provide support for ED2, assuming positive pre-reads? Typically, the slots and support are for ED1 applicants. It might be worth clarifying when you reach that conversation.

+10000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They both offer ED2, so she should apply to her preferred school ED1, plan to file to the other ED2, and have a Plan C (St. Lawrence? Whitman?) she'd be excited about.

I think she’s going to end up disappointed with this approach. I’d choose one for ED1 and then go for a more reasonable ED2. It’s really easy to get boxed out from the small lacs if you’re not in at ED. Middlebury is larger so I think it’s the better bet. Coming from a private and with athletics as her ec, she’s really not bringing much diversity from all the athletic recruits.

Exactly. Good friend's DC applied ED1 for one of those two last cycle then to a very slightly less competitive for ED2 and was boxed out - denied not just deferred - at both. Think GPA higher than OP's DC and had good test scores.

Our full pay DC had a similar (maybe slightly lower) GPA, a 34 ACT, two varsity sports but not captain, and very impressive ECs (not national level but definitely showed continuity in and connection among them). His school CC - also the office director - dissuaded DC from applying ED to one of these schools. Said that DC would get deferred in ED1 then denied in RD and asked if that is how DC wanted the ED card to play out.

If OP's DC will be unhappy if they do not try, then risk it on Middlebury as I strongly doubt Bowdoin will even consider. But then they need to have a good list in the three categories, some probable EAs, and be ready to go ED2 with a lower ranked school.

Make a concrete ED2 suggestion. The only LACs I can think of that are similar to Midd and Bowdoin but more selective than St. Lawrence and Whitman are Colby and Hamilton--neither of which is a meaningfully easier admit than Midd or Bowdoin. (I suppose maybe Kenyon, but that's a significantly different locale.) Since DD will get admitted to St. Lawrence and/or Whitman RD, why not spend her ED bullets on her actual first and second choices?

Your info on Colby and Hamilton may be a bit dated. Hamilton, in particular, is a very hot school right now and as difficult to get into than Middlebury. Colby just behind. Fact is the majority of NESCACs are very difficult to get into.

Anonymous wrote:Our DD from one of the area private schools (Top 5 according to DCUM) is really interested in Bowdoin and Middlebury. She wants to ED at one of the two schools and we are looking for guidance about which one gives a bigger bump for ED. Our DD's GPA is about 3.68. She will be going test optional. She has some sports leadership activities (Captain of teams since 11th grade) and should have excellent recommendations. At her private school, the regular admits for Bowdoin and Middlebury are around the 3.75 - 3.8 range so she is not competitive for RD. Unfortunately, there are not enough kids from her school doing ED to Bowdoin/Middlebury to get accurate Naviance data for this subset. Any anecdotal and/or factual advice would be really helpful. She honestly loved both schools from her visit and can see herself at either campus so her focus is on making the right ED decision. We are full pay if that helps.

I’ve heard of recruited athletes for NESCAC schools not passing academic pre-reads with a better gpa than 3.68. The only NESCAC schools that you are in play for are Conn College and Trinity.

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Could a kid with a 4.0/4.75 from an MCPS school, SAT of 1530, lots of sports ECs with leadership roles get into one of these two schools ED? I should add - no hooks.

The ability to ED and potentially full pay is a hook.

Aren't both schools need-blind?

Yes, of course they are. Full pay will not help one iota at Bowdoin or Midd.

Really? Schools may be need blind, but not price insensitive.

I don’t know what that means wrt admissions. PP said full Pay is a “hook” these schools when it is not a hook or even considered.

I can't quite fathom that no school considers full pay in their decision. It may not be the final decision, but no school is going to admit a class with 100% of students receiving between 50-100% full FA.

No one said no schools do. Many schools are need aware. Bowdoin and Middlebury are not.

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Could a kid with a 4.0/4.75 from an MCPS school, SAT of 1530, lots of sports ECs with leadership roles get into one of these two schools ED? I should add - no hooks.

The ability to ED and potentially full pay is a hook.

Aren't both schools need-blind?

Yes, of course they are. Full pay will not help one iota at Bowdoin or Midd.

Really? Schools may be need blind, but not price insensitive.

I don’t know what that means wrt admissions. PP said full Pay is a “hook” these schools when it is not a hook or even considered.

I can't quite fathom that no school considers full pay in their decision. It may not be the final decision, but no school is going to admit a class with 100% of students receiving between 50-100% full FA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Could a kid with a 4.0/4.75 from an MCPS school, SAT of 1530, lots of sports ECs with leadership roles get into one of these two schools ED? I should add - no hooks.

The ability to ED and potentially full pay is a hook.

Aren't both schools need-blind?

Yes, of course they are. Full pay will not help one iota at Bowdoin or Midd.

Really? Schools may be need blind, but not price insensitive.

I don’t know what that means wrt admissions. PP said full Pay is a “hook” these schools when it is not a hook or even considered.

Your daughter has some strong academics and I'm sure she's worked hard both academically and athletically. But to be honest, her academic record is middle of the road for both Middlebury and Bowdoin. Both schools (but especially Bowdoin) will be looking at the rigor of her coursework and her extracurricular activities. Does she have any other activities beyond athletics? Because if she isn't being recruited by either of these schools and she doesn't have other ECs, that will hurt her. Bowdoin's ED acceptance rate is significantly lower than Middlebury's (27% vs 45%). Keep in mind that many of these ED acceptances at both schools are athletic recruits and she will not have that benefit. Being female doesn't help either. Of course there is a chance that she will get into Bowdoin but it seems unlikely even as an ED applicant unless she has a lot more for her application that you haven't shared here. Her better bet is Middlebury and that's still going to be tough (because most of these schools are tough to get into). But if she's willing to accept a February admit then I think her chances are much better. There are just too many kids that apply to these schools with stats like your DD's and better. I wouldn't give up a recruited athlete position at Colby to try for an ED spot at Bowdoin. The two schools are just too similar. Is she really ok with giving up the chance to play her sport in college?

Anonymous wrote:

Interesting. I have experience at 2 different Big 5s. Both schools have said that schools REALLY do mean Test Optional so if it's not going to help, don't worry about it.

This is exactly what our private counselor said as well.

I think people are making a different point, if applying test optional, other criteria must be above range or at least top of range for school. If grades re on lower side, probably need good test scores to compensate.

I think with that ACT score and gpa you are within shooting range and an ED will likely help. We visited all the NESCAC schools except for Trinity, Williams and Conn College about 2 years ago. They were each different in a way. Loved them all though felt that Midd was a bit too rural. That was why we also didn't consider Williams (too rural) but your kid may like more rural. Ended up ED'ing Amherst because you can cross register at the other surrounding colleges including UMass. Also the town was large enough since there were so many nearby colleges so lots of restaurants, etc.