Anonymous
Post 06/18/2022 13:18     Subject: Re:Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Most people can't afford to save anything. I'm a single parent and a teacher and I took on 2 second jobs just to save anything at all. I might have around $20k saved by the time she starts college next year.


If you pick the right school, with your income, she will get a ton of financial aid. So pick a school that fully meets need, ideally one that uses grants after the basic ~$5k in student loans, so you don't need to do parent loans. Find a school where she is at 75% and the acceptance rate is over 50%. She will likely get grants/merit so that you only need to pay a minimal amount each year (ie. probably less than $10K).

You can also target more elite schools with an income level like that, unless the other parent has to be considered on Financial Aid (which may be the case).

Either way, pick a school that meets need/good merit aid and where you DD is at 90% (and acceptance rates over 50%) and your kid could get significant merit aid. So affordable college is possible, it just may not be a "T20" school.

There are affordable options for everyone, you just have to search and not be obsessed with rankings. Find the place that will pay for your DD to attend.



She isn't that good of a student for an elite school and the schools where she is above 75% of crappy schools with low graduation rates. I won't take out any parent loans.


Then I guess she needs to look at CC for the first 2 years. Work part time during the school year, live at home those 2 years and work full time during summer and all breaks. Then transfer to a state school for the final 2 years. Or other choice is "where she is above the 75% of crappy schools with low graduation rates". I agree that you cannot afford to take out parent loans. So in order for her to do this, she needs cheap, affordable college. So that means CC and transfer or continue to look for lesser known schools where the graduation rate is acceptable to you and find one that will give financial aide and/or merit.

Just curious, what is her GPA (W and UW) and SAT/ACT? And what might she want to study? There is a huge range between "elite qualified" and "really crappy grad rate schools". You'd be surprised that there are a ton of colleges out there, so with a bit of searching you might find the right one. And with lower income, you may be able to get application fees waived, which would allow her to apply to a few more schools in the search for the right financial aid package. Don't give up---there are affordable colleges out there.

As far as "crappy graduation rates", be sure to look into the "real graduation rates". What is the 5/6 year graduation rate vs 4 year. For a school that has a high rate of first generation or lower income students (not mutually exclusive), their rates are often somewhat lower, as those kids might take breaks to help family, because they need to work to have $$ for the next semester or for whatever reasons as navigating college when you don't have family to help you can be challenging. Most schools provide the data somewhere and if you delve deep into it, you find that there can be a 5-10% difference in graduation rates for first gen students and everyone else at many good schools---no matter how much assistance the school provides, there are still issues outside of their control (finances often being a large part of it). Since you are not first generation and your DD has you at home to help her navigate, her experience would be different, I suspect.



Her GPA is a 3.3 unweighted and maybe 3.5 weighted. She goes to a private school on a mostly full scholarship. I pay a few thousand per year. Her school only reports unweighted. She's interested in business. We will look at the in-state options (Towson, UMBC, SMCM). I don't want her to go to community college.


I'm curious what you have against community college? MD has some great CCs and it is an awesome way to get part of college completed at a much more affordable rate. If you won't take parent loans, she just might not be able to attend college without other financial aid/merit aide. An 18yo cannot take more than the ~$5K in federal loans. It just isn't a possibility; and that's a good thing as no 18 yo should really be signing away more than $20K for college.

However, could she live at home and attend Towson or UMBC? Or do you want her to have the "full college experience"---because that will cost a lot more.






CC tends to be drop-out factories. Why would I want my kid to go to school there? She can live at home and go to school nearby. I took out the max amount in student loans and so will my daughter. I had no issues paying them back either. I took out loans for grad school too.



To all of the people crowing about how great community colleges are, I ask a serious question: Have you ever actually set foot on a community college campus? I have, and there were so many people pushing strollers I thought I was at the mall. I tried to find a report I read a few years ago asking heads of colleges about transferring from community colleges, and they said that it’s better to go to a lesser university than to a CC because the overall culture of low achievement wound up keeping people from graduating or pursuing opportunities beyond CC. I did find this article about the low transfer rate of CC students to 4-year schools in CA.

https://www.communitycollegereview.com/blog/why-60-of-community-college-students-never-transfer
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2022 18:38     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
We are saving the best we can. We've already laid out the plan of cc then a state school. We have some really smart and gifted kids along with some average kids. I took this path and graduated. My debt was 1/3 of my spouse's who went 4 years to another state school. Nobody cares after your first job where you went to school.
Anonymous
Post 06/17/2022 16:22     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I thought college will be free and all college debt will be erased...per the Dems, no?


Yeah some progress in that direction would be the case if Republicans stopped being such myopic arseholes and would stop blocking every bit of progress ever.


Yeah.. let's see, I paid for my college degree (worked f/t nights & get my BS during the day), wife went to work F/T days & college at night. She paid her way (took her 8 years to get a BS). Then we took out home equity loans to pay for child (along with $ saved from 529 plan over 18 years),

so NOW, I am a "myopic arseholes" & I am stopping "every bit of progress ever"? YOU ARE a FOOL..

Yeah, I'm NOT ok with paying AOC's student loans when she makes $175k, not including other benefiits...
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 13:11     Subject: Re:Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:The most expensive schools are now close to 80k all in. Even if a kid gets a full tuition scholarship, which is rare, you could be looking at loans that still add up to 50k plus (for 4 years) just for dorms and living expenses.


Cost of Attendance has breached 80k for year 2022-23 for both of my kids. One is 82k+ and another is 83k+. I expect at least 5% increases for subsequent years.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 11:53     Subject: Re:Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:The most expensive schools are now close to 80k all in. Even if a kid gets a full tuition scholarship, which is rare, you could be looking at loans that still add up to 50k plus (for 4 years) just for dorms and living expenses.

And this is for the student who is the very best of the best, meaning they scored free tuition. Ask yourself seriously if this is likely to be your kid.


But there are plenty of state schools (maybe not T40, but amazing schools) that most students can get admitted to that are only $25-30K all in. Take the $5k in loans each year and have the kid work summer/breaks and part time during the year. Kid can earn $10K. That leaves another 10K per year or maybe $15K with spending/books/transporation/etc. If parents have saved even a bit, they should be able to cash flow and use 529 to pay the 15K. If not, then parents will need to take loans. Or better yet, your kid does the CC route for 2 years, lives at home and transfers. There are affordable options if you actually do not want to take loans.
I do feel sorry for kids whose parents make $150K+ and have not saved, as they are screwing over the kids---they will not get much or any aide beyond $5K in loans. But really if parents have saved even $50-60K, in the above scenario, they only need $15K/year and that's 60K total. So if kid is willing to work hard they can attend college with minimal debt ($20K total loans).
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 11:48     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid also got NMS scholarship of $4K at the in-state flagship. Some schools will give the entire tuition, room and board, stipend to NMS semifinalists. That is an option.


If your kid earns a NMS scholarship, there are plenty of private colleges they could attend for 75% tuition or more as merit. Not elite universities, but great schools that will give merit awards to attract good talent like that. There are choices.


I got full tuition and a stipend as a NMS at a state school. For smart folks private college is not necessary. Cream will always rise.

On the other hand, I send my kids to private and they have 529s. I don't expect them to be the top few percent of anything. If they are great, but I don't want them to to feel their self worth is tied to success. I want them to have an easier path to happiness.


Private colleges can often be more affordable than state schools or at least similar. My kid got 60% tuition at a T40 private and was only at the ~75% for scores. Had they picked a school where they were at 90%, they could have gotten 75-80% tuition bringing the cost to much less than our flagship state school that doesn't give much merit awards (they don't need to). And they could have gotten tuition down to $2-3K at our 2nd state school, but did not want to attend that school---since we can afford it they dont need to.
So "smart folks" find the school that is a great fit for their kid be it public or private and can easily find places with more merit awards if that is needed. There is a huge difference for many kids to attend a smaller private school vs their state school with 25K+ students.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 09:40     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:DH and I had zero help from our parents paying for college (pr wedding, house, etc). Neither did any of our friends that I'm aware of.

I see on other posts people saving in the thousands per month which is crazy to me. That's more than our mortgage.

We are solidly middle class and everyone in our circles went to state schools.

We save $150/month per kid and felt like we would be giving them a huge head start in life if we give them any money towards college.

Are we horrible parents?


No. This is cultural. We are Asian-Americans and we will live on PB&J sandwiches if needed, just so we could give an edge to our children by paying for their college, wedding, helping with childcare etc. Saving for a rainy day is ingrained in us and culturally parents are expected to be the providers. This is true if we lived in Asia or in any other continent. There was no reason for Americans to save for all of that because it is a different culture and people had options to make money without college education. Now the situation has changed in the US and world. College education is becoming more and more important for the modern society, college education is exorbitantly expensive and the economic options available to most people without college degree is fast shrinking. The new reality is such that it is a huge leg-up if parents can pay for their kid's college and help with things like wedding, house and even childcare.

Similarly, culturally in Asia, families were multi-generational and it helped with elder care, childcare, economic ups and downs etc. There was no need in America of past for families to pool their resources and live together so it did not happen. As the world is changing and as the pandemic has shown us - we may need to go back to such mulyi-gen living to meet the realities and challenges of the modern age.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 09:31     Subject: Re:Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
The most expensive schools are now close to 80k all in. Even if a kid gets a full tuition scholarship, which is rare, you could be looking at loans that still add up to 50k plus (for 4 years) just for dorms and living expenses.

And this is for the student who is the very best of the best, meaning they scored free tuition. Ask yourself seriously if this is likely to be your kid.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 09:27     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think parents who drive luxury cars and live a lavish life in other ways but don’t even offer to pay in-state college costs for their kids are really low class.


Does that even happen? We drive luxury cars and our kids go to private school and I can’t imagine parents who are already paying 45kyr for an independent school are going to stop at college.


Yes, it does and you are extremely wealthy so you have no concept of what OP is saying. The discussion is really about lower income, under $110K a year - basically what you pay for two kids to go to the private school. Its just not possible to save after taxes.


DP here. For us, regardless of if we had a good HHI or not, college education in a high paying STEM major was a must for our children, especially since we are first gen immigrants here, and we see education as the primary route to being successful for our kids. Even though our kids did not go to community college, I have nothing but admiration for CC, because I have seen and experienced how great they are. Yes, CC was a very viable and attractive alternative for us, if needed. Also, we made sure that our kids were getting the best education and working extremely hard to excel in their academics and extra curricular education in their public high schools, so they would be attractive candidates for colleges and they could actually be able to do well in college.

We poured time, effort and money into making sure that our public school going children were highly competitive and high performing. However, we did not want to waste our money on private school for K-12 as we are not wasteful (or 1% rich) and we did not think that any private school could match the STEM education given by public schools. My kids have gone to flagship in-state schools for STEM majors with generous merit aid for tuition. . Our HHI is around 350K, and we have done the prepaid for each of them as well, which got used for room and board.



+1. We started saving when our children were born. It wasn't enough. Also, when the time came, we were a donut hole family and also had many expenses for aging parents and a SN kid. Since we were donut hole, there was no financial aid except the $5500 federal loan, which we had our children take out. We refinanced our home to make it work. Then we sold it during the height of the market and left the DC area.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 09:21     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think parents who drive luxury cars and live a lavish life in other ways but don’t even offer to pay in-state college costs for their kids are really low class.


Does that even happen? We drive luxury cars and our kids go to private school and I can’t imagine parents who are already paying 45kyr for an independent school are going to stop at college.


Yes, it does and you are extremely wealthy so you have no concept of what OP is saying. The discussion is really about lower income, under $110K a year - basically what you pay for two kids to go to the private school. Its just not possible to save after taxes.


DP here. For us, regardless of if we had a good HHI or not, college education in a high paying STEM major was a must for our children, especially since we are first gen immigrants here, and we see education as the primary route to being successful for our kids. Even though our kids did not go to community college, I have nothing but admiration for CC, because I have seen and experienced how great they are. Yes, CC was a very viable and attractive alternative for us, if needed. Also, we made sure that our kids were getting the best education and working extremely hard to excel in their academics and extra curricular education in their public high schools, so they would be attractive candidates for colleges and they could actually be able to do well in college.

We poured time, effort and money into making sure that our public school going children were highly competitive and high performing. However, we did not want to waste our money on private school for K-12 as we are not wasteful (or 1% rich) and we did not think that any private school could match the STEM education given by public schools. My kids have gone to flagship in-state schools for STEM majors with generous merit aid for tuition. . Our HHI is around 350K, and we have done the prepaid for each of them as well, which got used for room and board.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 08:55     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid also got NMS scholarship of $4K at the in-state flagship. Some schools will give the entire tuition, room and board, stipend to NMS semifinalists. That is an option.


If your kid earns a NMS scholarship, there are plenty of private colleges they could attend for 75% tuition or more as merit. Not elite universities, but great schools that will give merit awards to attract good talent like that. There are choices.


Yes, one of the private colleges that we got a merit offer from was Vanderbilt. It is just that the in-state flagship was a better choice because it was T15 for CS. They also added a generous merit scholarship (which does not cost too much for the colleges for in-state students anyways) and we will only end up paying for cost of meals for 4 years.

While this windfall is great and all, we actually saved for undergrad and grad/professional schools for our children by being careful with our money and keeping our COL low.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 07:42     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My parents didn’t help me at all with college and it was very stressful. I worked a lot to keep my loan amounts down, but I still came out of school in debt.

And it has gotten so much more expensive.

This is precisely why I save for my kids college. If we can’t pay all their tuition and rent, we’ll help them pay off the loans. I want them to know they are supported.


My parents/grandparents paid mine (my parents are too stingy to help us, unlike my grandparents). We bought the cheapest house we could find, DIY and saved early on to do a prepaid and then save for room/board and in state graduate school. Kids know this and are fine with going to the state school. We started saving as soon as they were born.


Exactly! PP here - We will be realistic with our kids - but I don’t want them to be left holding the bag entirely.


Same. I have graduate school debt and it's awful to have. It's basically paying a second mortgage that lasts through the daycare years and affects your debt to income ratio when buying a house. Terrible to stick your children with that burden when you have the means to save.
Anonymous
Post 06/16/2022 06:05     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My parents didn’t help me at all with college and it was very stressful. I worked a lot to keep my loan amounts down, but I still came out of school in debt.

And it has gotten so much more expensive.

This is precisely why I save for my kids college. If we can’t pay all their tuition and rent, we’ll help them pay off the loans. I want them to know they are supported.


My parents/grandparents paid mine (my parents are too stingy to help us, unlike my grandparents). We bought the cheapest house we could find, DIY and saved early on to do a prepaid and then save for room/board and in state graduate school. Kids know this and are fine with going to the state school. We started saving as soon as they were born.


Exactly! PP here - We will be realistic with our kids - but I don’t want them to be left holding the bag entirely.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2022 23:10     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid also got NMS scholarship of $4K at the in-state flagship. Some schools will give the entire tuition, room and board, stipend to NMS semifinalists. That is an option.


If your kid earns a NMS scholarship, there are plenty of private colleges they could attend for 75% tuition or more as merit. Not elite universities, but great schools that will give merit awards to attract good talent like that. There are choices.


I got full tuition and a stipend as a NMS at a state school. For smart folks private college is not necessary. Cream will always rise.

On the other hand, I send my kids to private and they have 529s. I don't expect them to be the top few percent of anything. If they are great, but I don't want them to to feel their self worth is tied to success. I want them to have an easier path to happiness.
Anonymous
Post 06/15/2022 21:29     Subject: Is anyone not saving to pay for all of their kids' college?
Anonymous wrote:My parents didn’t help me at all with college and it was very stressful. I worked a lot to keep my loan amounts down, but I still came out of school in debt.

And it has gotten so much more expensive.

This is precisely why I save for my kids college. If we can’t pay all their tuition and rent, we’ll help them pay off the loans. I want them to know they are supported.


My parents/grandparents paid mine (my parents are too stingy to help us, unlike my grandparents). We bought the cheapest house we could find, DIY and saved early on to do a prepaid and then save for room/board and in state graduate school. Kids know this and are fine with going to the state school. We started saving as soon as they were born.