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Anonymous wrote:The demand seems to be for big warm climate schools.

+1. Presumably rich preppy kids don't want to live in the isolated, cold, grey, and declining Rust Belt? It's not like you can keep it a secret how awesome the warm weather South and coasts are from sheltered Midwest kids anymore. They have snapchat, tiktok, youtube, and instagram.

For goodness sake, the South was never any kind of "secret." I grew up in suburban Chicago and did not know one kid who hadn't been to Florida at least once on vacation (most had gone many times). Granted, I didn't know anyone who had gone on vacation to Alabama or Mississippi, but then again, why the heck would they have? We knew how backwards they were.

Visiting grandma's retirement condo in Fort Myers is not the same as access to millions of first-person vlogs from attractive kids at SEC, ACC, and California schools. Kids are wiser than ever. Southern college kids are not seen as "backwards," they're attractive and soaking up the sun and distinct fun culture of their location and university. Backwards is willingly spending four years of the prime of your life in the depressing Rust Belt where you have to wear a $800 parka until April. If you're not going to live in Ohio (or Michigan or Indiana) after college, why in the hell would you go to college there?

Never understood why the south boosters need to push their case so hard. Are you trying to convince yourself that the south is actually good?

Uh the south is great. It’s growing rapidly.

agreed (except for auburn because the auburn booster on this board is a annoying)

Klan-tastic!

The south is going to be great!

Will it rise again?!?!

It already has.

I suppose if we fill it up with non-Southerners, it might get better.

The map shows why you have to differentiate in talking about "the South." Some southern states are booming (e.g. the Carolinas), while others (Mississippi and Louisiana) are not. My DC is interested in schools in the former (Wake Forest, Clemson) but won't consider schools in the latter. Even within a southern state, there can be major differences. In Alabama, the Huntsville metro area is experiencing strong growth. Birmingham, not so much, and Mobile, uh, no.

Your info is very dated. Huntsville is booming, but Baldwin County (Mobile suburbs) has been the fastest growing part of AL for the last decade. Lots of job growth in Mobile (Airbus, Austal, & the Port, etc). That other dark green area in Northern Al is the Birmingham suburbs.

The pattern is pretty consistent. Urban/suburban areas in the South are growing, cities in the North are losing population.

The big differences between Southern states is still there. So much green throughout the states of Tennessee (even well outside major urban areas) and, to a lesser extent, throughout the state of North Carolina. On the other hand, SO much purple in Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana.

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Anonymous wrote:There is an earlier thread on W& M. I don’t disagree that it is in a worse position than a generation ago. But I think it has unique attributes that could save it. First, I think the history and tradition can’t be replaced (oldest academic building in the US) and lots of kids are looking for that sweet spot size in a temperate climate. Plus, close to DC/still on the east coast corridor. And, you still need good stats to get in (much better than Miami of Ohio).

I think the Commonwealth should allow it to take more OOS kids and I think you could compete with midsize schools, either Notre Dame/Vandy/Northwestern/Tulane/BC or bigger SLACs such as Middlebury or Bowdoin. They should lean in to the teaching college/liberal arts curriculum and really focus on grad school outcomes etc.

The top 25 are really hard to be admitted to these days. Only follows that 25-50 should get the kids who get shut out of the top but are still impressive.

I agree W&M will remain in good shape. The in state student pool from DC area will continue to support them well. Even if it was just everyone's second in state choice that still works with how selective UVA is. Many from out of state will continue to be interested in a top 50 school - especially those not on a STEM track. Frankly the non STEM focus could be a nice differentiator. W&M also has a small enrollment so doesn't need that many top students to fill out each class.

The issue is that maintaining one's place in the rankings requires constant improvement, because every other university above and below are investing heavily in order to improve rapidly as well.

W&M was once considered the more serious school for top academic Virginia students compared to UVA. Then it became about equivalent to UVA. Now it's firmly cemented as second-choice for top Virginia in-state students.

If W&M just stays the course, as it has done for the past 30+ years, it will decline further. There are plenty of universities ranked between 40-70 that have risen greatly in popularity and will only rise further - Boston University, Case Western, Tulane, Northeastern, Pepperdine, RPI, Santa Clara, Miami, George Washington, WPI, Southern Methodist, etc. These schools embody the current favorable trends for colleges as well: all of them are in or near major cities, many have inherent advantages in STEM, and most of them are in sunbelt states. W&M conversely, has none of those three traits.

Rankings are a self-fulfilling prophecy - good schools have higher rankings, and high rankings attracts better students and faculties which make the school better. The opposite also holds true.

ah, yes, my favorite major cities of *checks notes* Worcester, MA, and Troy, NY.

Funny you pick those two, both engineering and tech-focused schools in a time when engineering/tech is taking over the globe, Stanford/MIT have easily overtaken Yale/Princeton and engineering departments at even massive land-grant universities are reaching single-digit acceptance rates.

Albany has a metro area the size of Richmond. Troy is within minutes to the heart of Albany. Williamsburg is an hour away from Richmond on the interstate.

Worcester is as far away from Boston as Williamsburg is to Richmond. Boston is an international cosmopolitan hub of academics and research with world-class universities, top companies, and top students and professionals from the entire world flocking there. Richmond has Confederate monuments.

Worcester is definately an improving city. There are great restaurants, arts, things to do, etc. WPI is a great up and coming school. They do need to address the suicide issues and the underlying causes (I suspect some may just be it's an engineering school and many males that fit in there already had mental health issues before they arrived and covid and the 7 week semesters compound the issues. But there are definately issues with the culture and how professors address student concerns---parents are actively involved and working to push the administration to make changes now).

RPI however, there is no getting around it. Troy is not an exciting place---downtown troy is 3 blocks of not much---the best restaurant is Dino BBQ, and while it's a decent place, it's top because there is literally nothing else. Albany isn't really either. Its the one place my kid visited and upon driving into Troy said "no need to do the tour, no way in hell am I attending this place". Still did the tour, but the tour just confirmed that there was no way my kid would be happy there. Good school, which should improve a lot when the current president leaves in the next month but it will take time for the new administration to undue the damages of the last 15 years and financial issues. Not a fan of the ARCH program either. IMO WPI is a much better school all the way around.

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Anonymous wrote:The demand seems to be for big warm climate schools.

+1. Presumably rich preppy kids don't want to live in the isolated, cold, grey, and declining Rust Belt? It's not like you can keep it a secret how awesome the warm weather South and coasts are from sheltered Midwest kids anymore. They have snapchat, tiktok, youtube, and instagram.

For goodness sake, the South was never any kind of "secret." I grew up in suburban Chicago and did not know one kid who hadn't been to Florida at least once on vacation (most had gone many times). Granted, I didn't know anyone who had gone on vacation to Alabama or Mississippi, but then again, why the heck would they have? We knew how backwards they were.

Visiting grandma's retirement condo in Fort Myers is not the same as access to millions of first-person vlogs from attractive kids at SEC, ACC, and California schools. Kids are wiser than ever. Southern college kids are not seen as "backwards," they're attractive and soaking up the sun and distinct fun culture of their location and university. Backwards is willingly spending four years of the prime of your life in the depressing Rust Belt where you have to wear a $800 parka until April. If you're not going to live in Ohio (or Michigan or Indiana) after college, why in the hell would you go to college there?

Never understood why the south boosters need to push their case so hard. Are you trying to convince yourself that the south is actually good?

Uh the south is great. It’s growing rapidly.

agreed (except for auburn because the auburn booster on this board is a annoying)

Klan-tastic!

The south is going to be great!

Will it rise again?!?!

It already has.

I suppose if we fill it up with non-Southerners, it might get better.

The map shows why you have to differentiate in talking about "the South." Some southern states are booming (e.g. the Carolinas), while others (Mississippi and Louisiana) are not. My DC is interested in schools in the former (Wake Forest, Clemson) but won't consider schools in the latter. Even within a southern state, there can be major differences. In Alabama, the Huntsville metro area is experiencing strong growth. Birmingham, not so much, and Mobile, uh, no.

Your info is very dated. Huntsville is booming, but Baldwin County (Mobile suburbs) has been the fastest growing part of AL for the last decade. Lots of job growth in Mobile (Airbus, Austal, & the Port, etc). That other dark green area in Northern Al is the Birmingham suburbs.

The pattern is pretty consistent. Urban/suburban areas in the South are growing, cities in the North are losing population.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The demand seems to be for big warm climate schools.

+1. Presumably rich preppy kids don't want to live in the isolated, cold, grey, and declining Rust Belt? It's not like you can keep it a secret how awesome the warm weather South and coasts are from sheltered Midwest kids anymore. They have snapchat, tiktok, youtube, and instagram.

For goodness sake, the South was never any kind of "secret." I grew up in suburban Chicago and did not know one kid who hadn't been to Florida at least once on vacation (most had gone many times). Granted, I didn't know anyone who had gone on vacation to Alabama or Mississippi, but then again, why the heck would they have? We knew how backwards they were.

Visiting grandma's retirement condo in Fort Myers is not the same as access to millions of first-person vlogs from attractive kids at SEC, ACC, and California schools. Kids are wiser than ever. Southern college kids are not seen as "backwards," they're attractive and soaking up the sun and distinct fun culture of their location and university. Backwards is willingly spending four years of the prime of your life in the depressing Rust Belt where you have to wear a $800 parka until April. If you're not going to live in Ohio (or Michigan or Indiana) after college, why in the hell would you go to college there?

Never understood why the south boosters need to push their case so hard. Are you trying to convince yourself that the south is actually good?

Uh the south is great. It’s growing rapidly.

agreed (except for auburn because the auburn booster on this board is a annoying)

Klan-tastic!

The south is going to be great!

Will it rise again?!?!

It already has.

I suppose if we fill it up with non-Southerners, it might get better.

you gotta love northerners who move somewhere and then immediately try to change it into the shitty place that they chose to leave

Please. Most are moving for weather and lower COL (not true in all of the places noted but in several; and certainly less then where their coming from in many cases.) They're not moving there to pine away for the dream of the "south will rise again." Jesus, you're dumb.

Most are retiring. Imagine that we're at the peak of Boomer retirement age--the largest population group in the history of the US-- and a lot of people are moving South.

Need to get up to date. Millennials have passed the Boomers as the largest generation in US history.

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Anonymous wrote:The dumbest student in my big 3 class went to Miami of Ohio.

Paul Ryan went to Miami of Ohio. 'Nuff said.

I mean, I don’t like his politics but are you really saying a former Speaker of the House and major party nominee for Vice President is not prestigious?

We can play this game all day. You know who else graduated?

— Poet Laureat Rita Dove
— US President Benjamin Harrison
— Senator Maria Cantwel
— Satirist PJ O’Rourke

I was the PP who groused about Paul Ryan. Mostly I was just trash talking. I don't particularly like his politics, but his misguided Randian view of economic policy is positively adorable compared to what right wing politicians are pushing these days.

I graduated from Miami a year after Ryan and was, like him, a political science major. It seems very likely that I was in classes with him, but he was a frat guy that was so standard issue at Miami, I couldn't say for sure. I was a ZBT and he was a Delta Tau Delta. We hated those guys. "Dicks 'Til Death." So, my reasons for talking trash about Ryan are more frivolous than politics.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The demand seems to be for big warm climate schools.

+1. Presumably rich preppy kids don't want to live in the isolated, cold, grey, and declining Rust Belt? It's not like you can keep it a secret how awesome the warm weather South and coasts are from sheltered Midwest kids anymore. They have snapchat, tiktok, youtube, and instagram.

For goodness sake, the South was never any kind of "secret." I grew up in suburban Chicago and did not know one kid who hadn't been to Florida at least once on vacation (most had gone many times). Granted, I didn't know anyone who had gone on vacation to Alabama or Mississippi, but then again, why the heck would they have? We knew how backwards they were.

Visiting grandma's retirement condo in Fort Myers is not the same as access to millions of first-person vlogs from attractive kids at SEC, ACC, and California schools. Kids are wiser than ever. Southern college kids are not seen as "backwards," they're attractive and soaking up the sun and distinct fun culture of their location and university. Backwards is willingly spending four years of the prime of your life in the depressing Rust Belt where you have to wear a $800 parka until April. If you're not going to live in Ohio (or Michigan or Indiana) after college, why in the hell would you go to college there?

Never understood why the south boosters need to push their case so hard. Are you trying to convince yourself that the south is actually good?

Uh the south is great. It’s growing rapidly.

agreed (except for auburn because the auburn booster on this board is a annoying)

Klan-tastic!

The south is going to be great!

Will it rise again?!?!

It already has.

I suppose if we fill it up with non-Southerners, it might get better.

you gotta love northerners who move somewhere and then immediately try to change it into the shitty place that they chose to leave

Please. Most are moving for weather and lower COL (not true in all of the places noted but in several; and certainly less then where their coming from in many cases.) They're not moving there to pine away for the dream of the "south will rise again." Jesus, you're dumb.

I recall in the early part of the 20th century when many southerners flocked to the north for work. They brought their lazy, slow, and uneducated ways with them. Now the north is stuck with their descendants.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The demand seems to be for big warm climate schools.

+1. Presumably rich preppy kids don't want to live in the isolated, cold, grey, and declining Rust Belt? It's not like you can keep it a secret how awesome the warm weather South and coasts are from sheltered Midwest kids anymore. They have snapchat, tiktok, youtube, and instagram.

For goodness sake, the South was never any kind of "secret." I grew up in suburban Chicago and did not know one kid who hadn't been to Florida at least once on vacation (most had gone many times). Granted, I didn't know anyone who had gone on vacation to Alabama or Mississippi, but then again, why the heck would they have? We knew how backwards they were.

Visiting grandma's retirement condo in Fort Myers is not the same as access to millions of first-person vlogs from attractive kids at SEC, ACC, and California schools. Kids are wiser than ever. Southern college kids are not seen as "backwards," they're attractive and soaking up the sun and distinct fun culture of their location and university. Backwards is willingly spending four years of the prime of your life in the depressing Rust Belt where you have to wear a $800 parka until April. If you're not going to live in Ohio (or Michigan or Indiana) after college, why in the hell would you go to college there?

Never understood why the south boosters need to push their case so hard. Are you trying to convince yourself that the south is actually good?

Uh the south is great. It’s growing rapidly.

agreed (except for auburn because the auburn booster on this board is a annoying)

Klan-tastic!

The south is going to be great!

Will it rise again?!?!

It already has.

I suppose if we fill it up with non-Southerners, it might get better.

you gotta love northerners who move somewhere and then immediately try to change it into the shitty place that they chose to leave

Please. Most are moving for weather and lower COL (not true in all of the places noted but in several; and certainly less then where their coming from in many cases.) They're not moving there to pine away for the dream of the "south will rise again." Jesus, you're dumb.

Most are retiring. Imagine that we're at the peak of Boomer retirement age--the largest population group in the history of the US-- and a lot of people are moving South.