Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the BMI child calculator those stats for a child 9 1/2 years old place her squarely in the overweight category. It’s confusing that you said she has always had these percentiles but has gotten chubby in the last two years. I’m not sure which it is. In any case we seem to have a problem as a culture talking about healthy eating with children. There is far too much panic over causing an eating disorder in my opinion. I think it’s OK to tell children that healthy choices make healthy bodies and that when our bodies get too big they don’t work as well. Simple and factual and not repeated ad nauseam. It is so much more difficult to lose weight as an adult. The only answer is focusing on healthy meals as an entire family and not keeping any junk in the house. Make sure she is being active and participates in 60 minutes of physical activity every day.

Agree. Some kids and adults have poor impulse control with food. It just is a fact. It is ok to help them with what a portion size is. My kids love to snack on pistachios. One is fine with a handful, another wants several handfuls. If more kids learned about the nutrients different foodS provide and what a reasonable portion is, what foods you can have “as much you want” and what foods are an indulgence and should be kept to a smaller set amount- they would be in a much better place as adults

But the thing with high calorie foods is that if you listen to your body, it will level out. If you eat an entire bag of nuts, you probably won’t be hungry for dinner. If you are still hungry, then yes, your body needs those calories. Some teenage boys really do need multiple handfuls of pistachios!
Also, portion size isn’t really about education. We can all see it clearly in the package - a serving of Oreos is two Oreos. But honestly, what does that have to do with any individual person? Someone just made up what a serving is. It’s not like nature has “serving sizes.” There’s nothing biological about serving sizes. It’s honestly just another tool of restriction.

DP

The problem is that some people don't listen to their bodies. I am one of them. My daughter is another. My mother is one too. We eat until it hurts. You can literally see my daughter move left and right in her chair when she is full, but she will eat some more. We joke that she is trying to find room for more.

Some would argue that it is general impulse control issue, but I disagree. My mother is one of the most disciplined people in the world. But she still will not stop eating when she is full.

There is something about the taste of food that is so irresistible for us that we will take the pain before we stop. And it's not the additives in the American diet because my mother and I grew up abroad. I was exactly like my daughter at her age. I was in love with food.

If you watch my mother drink even water, you'd be so confused. You'd think she was drinking water from the gods. Everything that touches her tongue is divine( except for too much salt- she hates very salty foods).

For us, your idea of balance does not work. We have to fill up on veggies and soups first so that the pain from fullness comes quick and becomes unbearable before we have consumed 2000 calories in one meal.

I think it's genetic, either faulty wiring or some nutrient deficiency that we cannot seem to figure out. We do well with techniques and strategies. My mother's entire family is like this. But most of them are a healthy weight because they mostly eat healthy. You can only get so big if you pack on veggies and soups before anything else. But they are addicted to the taste of food and can keep going even when it hurts. It has to really hurt before they stop.

My younger and older sisters are not like this, and my father's family is not like this. We grew up in the same house on the same diet but I got the short end of the genetic stick in this regard. I am not complaining though, because I got some great genes in other areas that they didn't.

It's not that big of a deal once you've accepted that you are wired to keep eating beyond satiety. I love my body and I love my life. But I think pretending that I can just listen to my body is not going to work. It will not work for my daughter either.

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP of the thread on whether Ellyn Sattler works for kids who can’t regulate their food intake. My daughter is definitely overweight, and has no “off” switch when it comes to food she likes (not just junk, but anything she really likes.). Always has been like this. But she now wants to lose weight, and I’m really struggling with how to approach it for all the reasons given here. A week of trying Sattler’s approach has led to, I would guess, a doubling in my child’s consumption for the week (and I assure you she was not going hungry before). Even she said “I’m not going to lose weight eating whatever I want.” I don’t care what my daughter looks like—she takes my breath away with her beauty. But she gets made fun of for being fat, and I don’t know how to help her in a way that doesn’t lead to more issues later. So I feel for you, OP.

Have you had her checked by a pediatrician or endocrinologist? Always rule that out first as there are medical conditions that can cause this if she truly has no off button.

I was just listening to this Satter episode (my daughter is super picky about normal things — refuses quesadillas and fries, happily eats a lot of veggies) and it might be helpful:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/142-division-of-responsibility-with-ellyn-satter/id1148570190?i=1000532079680

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the BMI child calculator those stats for a child 9 1/2 years old place her squarely in the overweight category. It’s confusing that you said she has always had these percentiles but has gotten chubby in the last two years. I’m not sure which it is. In any case we seem to have a problem as a culture talking about healthy eating with children. There is far too much panic over causing an eating disorder in my opinion. I think it’s OK to tell children that healthy choices make healthy bodies and that when our bodies get too big they don’t work as well. Simple and factual and not repeated ad nauseam. It is so much more difficult to lose weight as an adult. The only answer is focusing on healthy meals as an entire family and not keeping any junk in the house. Make sure she is being active and participates in 60 minutes of physical activity every day.

Agree. Some kids and adults have poor impulse control with food. It just is a fact. It is ok to help them with what a portion size is. My kids love to snack on pistachios. One is fine with a handful, another wants several handfuls. If more kids learned about the nutrients different foodS provide and what a reasonable portion is, what foods you can have “as much you want” and what foods are an indulgence and should be kept to a smaller set amount- they would be in a much better place as adults

But the thing with high calorie foods is that if you listen to your body, it will level out. If you eat an entire bag of nuts, you probably won’t be hungry for dinner. If you are still hungry, then yes, your body needs those calories. Some teenage boys really do need multiple handfuls of pistachios!
Also, portion size isn’t really about education. We can all see it clearly in the package - a serving of Oreos is two Oreos. But honestly, what does that have to do with any individual person? Someone just made up what a serving is. It’s not like nature has “serving sizes.” There’s nothing biological about serving sizes. It’s honestly just another tool of restriction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not just let your kid eat what they want? Expect some random overeating in the first few months as they adjust (and worry you’re going to take the privilege away) but then it should settle down and your kid will start to self regulate.

You should not be in control of food at that age. What is going to happen when they go to camp/travel with friends/college? It’s better to allow them to experiment now in the comfort of home rather than have them go nuts when they are older.

My kids (12, 10, 8) are allowed unfettered access to our fridge and pantry at all times (save for labeled ingredients for recipes. I literally write on the cracker box, these are for Wednesday’s soup, please don’t eat). And the pantry has a mix of things. Trail mix and Cheese Doodles. Oreos and fruit leather. Some expensive chocolate and a thing of Nerds. Etc. They all make reasonable choices. If they eat a ton immediately before dinner, we don’t say anything. They still will sit with us and hang out (dinner in our house is a lot of fun because they are all very silly and we laugh a lot), but I don’t care if they eat it or not. They can also make something else if they don’t feel like eating what I made. I literally could not tell you who ate what for dinner last night, it is that low of a priority in my mind.

They are all healthy weights and heights, active and growing. I am definitely the most laid back about food in my social circle but my kids have absolutely no food issues.

So this is where I am struggling - half of the people who responded are saying don’t buy the processed snacks or cheeseburgers/pizza and the others are saying don’t restrict anything and just let her eat what she wants and she will learn. If I don’t buy those things, thus not allowing her to eat the things she really likes, then I am setting her up to binge on them elsewhere or when she can get them. But if I do buy them and allow her to eat them in moderation (I.e. one processed snack per day and then offer something else) I am being too controlling.

Maybe professional help is the answer!

I’m the PP you quoted. There are definitely certain foods I don’t keep in the house because DH and I just loathe them. Mangoes, life savers and sausage are just not things we eat. I’m not really worried about my kids going wild for mango or sausage or life savers when they are available. If they asked me to buy a mango, I’d probably buy a precut thing and ask them to eat it outside (I just cannot deal with it). But the key is - I’m not avoiding buying this stuff because I’m concerned for their health. I’m not buying it because it’s disgusting, lol.

I think we have a typical American pantry and they are allowed whatever. I don’t restrict or control food in any way. I don’t avoid buying treats or restrict portions. My kids ask for lots of things at the grocery store and I usually agree if it’s within budget and not overboard. Sometimes it’s deli ham and rolls for sandwiches and sometimes it’s gummy worms and sometimes it’s a big flat of strawberries. It really does balance out if you allow their bodies to tell them what they need to eat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP of the thread on whether Ellyn Sattler works for kids who can’t regulate their food intake. My daughter is definitely overweight, and has no “off” switch when it comes to food she likes (not just junk, but anything she really likes.). Always has been like this. But she now wants to lose weight, and I’m really struggling with how to approach it for all the reasons given here. A week of trying Sattler’s approach has led to, I would guess, a doubling in my child’s consumption for the week (and I assure you she was not going hungry before). Even she said “I’m not going to lose weight eating whatever I want.” I don’t care what my daughter looks like—she takes my breath away with her beauty. But she gets made fun of for being fat, and I don’t know how to help her in a way that doesn’t lead to more issues later. So I feel for you, OP.

If she’s really overeating, she will be in pain. Does she eat past the point of pain? Does she not realize when her stomach is full?
Our bodies want healthy food. We all know it’s fun maybe once to eat a whole pizza, but if you eat an entire pizza everyday, you will very obviously not feel good. At first when you start eating intuitively, you’re still learning about what hunger and fullness means, so it might take a little while.
So either your daughter is ignoring her body/doesn’t understand her body, or…. Maybe she’s just genetically programmed to be big? And if so, is that really what you want for your daughter’s life - an everyday struggle to eat less than she wants to eat, and to always hate and be at war with her body? Why not just let her be a bigger person? I’m not saying like my-600-lb life big, but plenty of women are “overweight” and still very healthy and it’s just how their body is. I feel bad she’s getting made fun of, but kids get made fun of for lots of things - curly hair, glasses, etc etc etc.

DP. My nephew overeats. Always has, from the time he was a toddler. He would eat and eat and eat and eat to the point where he throws up. And after he is done, he will still be hungry, and want to eat some more. When he was younger, he would ask the adults if he should be done, because his body wasn't telling him that he was full. I have come to believe that some people have faulty wiring, and they really cannot tell when they're full.

For someone who is already overweight, look at “The End of Overeating” by David Kessler.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the BMI child calculator those stats for a child 9 1/2 years old place her squarely in the overweight category. It’s confusing that you said she has always had these percentiles but has gotten chubby in the last two years. I’m not sure which it is. In any case we seem to have a problem as a culture talking about healthy eating with children. There is far too much panic over causing an eating disorder in my opinion. I think it’s OK to tell children that healthy choices make healthy bodies and that when our bodies get too big they don’t work as well. Simple and factual and not repeated ad nauseam. It is so much more difficult to lose weight as an adult. The only answer is focusing on healthy meals as an entire family and not keeping any junk in the house. Make sure she is being active and participates in 60 minutes of physical activity every day.

Agree. Some kids and adults have poor impulse control with food. It just is a fact. It is ok to help them with what a portion size is. My kids love to snack on pistachios. One is fine with a handful, another wants several handfuls. If more kids learned about the nutrients different foodS provide and what a reasonable portion is, what foods you can have “as much you want” and what foods are an indulgence and should be kept to a smaller set amount- they would be in a much better place as adults

I would speculate that the impulse control can be dealt with separate from the issue of food. A lot of people know what a "reasonable" portion is and still eat more, for various reasons. Saying "just don't eat more than this much" is kind of like telling somebody struggling with procrastination "just sit down and do the work." I think you typically have to address it from a more creative angle. Although I'm not sure if overdoing it on the pistachios really needs to be addressed at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the BMI child calculator those stats for a child 9 1/2 years old place her squarely in the overweight category. It’s confusing that you said she has always had these percentiles but has gotten chubby in the last two years. I’m not sure which it is. In any case we seem to have a problem as a culture talking about healthy eating with children. There is far too much panic over causing an eating disorder in my opinion. I think it’s OK to tell children that healthy choices make healthy bodies and that when our bodies get too big they don’t work as well. Simple and factual and not repeated ad nauseam. It is so much more difficult to lose weight as an adult. The only answer is focusing on healthy meals as an entire family and not keeping any junk in the house. Make sure she is being active and participates in 60 minutes of physical activity every day.

Agree. Some kids and adults have poor impulse control with food. It just is a fact. It is ok to help them with what a portion size is. My kids love to snack on pistachios. One is fine with a handful, another wants several handfuls. If more kids learned about the nutrients different foodS provide and what a reasonable portion is, what foods you can have “as much you want” and what foods are an indulgence and should be kept to a smaller set amount- they would be in a much better place as adults

My parents watched what I ate since I was little. Around 12-13 they started weighing me every morning for a month or so because I had gained some weight quickly.
I think today (I am 37) this would be seen as child abuse? Maybe? But I am SOOOOOO glad my parents did that. I learned early in that I had to watch what I ate because, while small (I am 5’3” and 125 lbs), I tend to put in weight. I don’t have an eating disorder, I have never been made fun of my body, I have been regarded as very beautiful (even now), and I have no health issues because of my weight.

Given my own experience, I will do my best to not let my kids become overweight. An overweight child is an overweight adult 99% of the time. Why would I want to do that to my kids with everything that being overweight entails? Why?

Anonymous wrote:According to the BMI child calculator those stats for a child 9 1/2 years old place her squarely in the overweight category. It’s confusing that you said she has always had these percentiles but has gotten chubby in the last two years. I’m not sure which it is. In any case we seem to have a problem as a culture talking about healthy eating with children. There is far too much panic over causing an eating disorder in my opinion. I think it’s OK to tell children that healthy choices make healthy bodies and that when our bodies get too big they don’t work as well. Simple and factual and not repeated ad nauseam. It is so much more difficult to lose weight as an adult. The only answer is focusing on healthy meals as an entire family and not keeping any junk in the house. Make sure she is being active and participates in 60 minutes of physical activity every day.

Agree. Some kids and adults have poor impulse control with food. It just is a fact. It is ok to help them with what a portion size is. My kids love to snack on pistachios. One is fine with a handful, another wants several handfuls. If more kids learned about the nutrients different foodS provide and what a reasonable portion is, what foods you can have “as much you want” and what foods are an indulgence and should be kept to a smaller set amount- they would be in a much better place as adults

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP of the thread on whether Ellyn Sattler works for kids who can’t regulate their food intake. My daughter is definitely overweight, and has no “off” switch when it comes to food she likes (not just junk, but anything she really likes.). Always has been like this. But she now wants to lose weight, and I’m really struggling with how to approach it for all the reasons given here. A week of trying Sattler’s approach has led to, I would guess, a doubling in my child’s consumption for the week (and I assure you she was not going hungry before). Even she said “I’m not going to lose weight eating whatever I want.” I don’t care what my daughter looks like—she takes my breath away with her beauty. But she gets made fun of for being fat, and I don’t know how to help her in a way that doesn’t lead to more issues later. So I feel for you, OP.

If she’s really overeating, she will be in pain. Does she eat past the point of pain? Does she not realize when her stomach is full?
Our bodies want healthy food. We all know it’s fun maybe once to eat a whole pizza, but if you eat an entire pizza everyday, you will very obviously not feel good. At first when you start eating intuitively, you’re still learning about what hunger and fullness means, so it might take a little while.
So either your daughter is ignoring her body/doesn’t understand her body, or…. Maybe she’s just genetically programmed to be big? And if so, is that really what you want for your daughter’s life - an everyday struggle to eat less than she wants to eat, and to always hate and be at war with her body? Why not just let her be a bigger person? I’m not saying like my-600-lb life big, but plenty of women are “overweight” and still very healthy and it’s just how their body is. I feel bad she’s getting made fun of, but kids get made fun of for lots of things - curly hair, glasses, etc etc etc.

NP, but you can’t control whether your child has curly hair or wears glasses, but you can control whether they are overweight because they have an atrocious diet.

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP of the thread on whether Ellyn Sattler works for kids who can’t regulate their food intake. My daughter is definitely overweight, and has no “off” switch when it comes to food she likes (not just junk, but anything she really likes.). Always has been like this. But she now wants to lose weight, and I’m really struggling with how to approach it for all the reasons given here. A week of trying Sattler’s approach has led to, I would guess, a doubling in my child’s consumption for the week (and I assure you she was not going hungry before). Even she said “I’m not going to lose weight eating whatever I want.” I don’t care what my daughter looks like—she takes my breath away with her beauty. But she gets made fun of for being fat, and I don’t know how to help her in a way that doesn’t lead to more issues later. So I feel for you, OP.

TBH I think the very problem is that she *wants* to lose weight, and that you're both trying to make changes so you're thinking about a lot, so she's fixated on food. Thinking about food all the time doesn't typically lead to weight loss because, well, thinking about something good usually makes you want it.

I don't restrict my food at all or the food of my kids. But food is a very small part of our lives. Our lives are filled with other things that take most of our attention. And because our kids know that they can always eat later, they don't typically eat too much on the whole. Yes sometimes DD eats past the point of fullness and she isn't skinny, but overall it balances out.

Every situation is different, but I think you would do better to help your daughter with your self-confidence rather than trying to help her lose weight. I know it doesn't seem like Satter "worked" but it takes a while for your brain to truly, truly change the mindset. It takes time to re-learn hunger cues.

But I know this is so hard, and I hope you and your daughter are doing okay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP of the thread on whether Ellyn Sattler works for kids who can’t regulate their food intake. My daughter is definitely overweight, and has no “off” switch when it comes to food she likes (not just junk, but anything she really likes.). Always has been like this. But she now wants to lose weight, and I’m really struggling with how to approach it for all the reasons given here. A week of trying Sattler’s approach has led to, I would guess, a doubling in my child’s consumption for the week (and I assure you she was not going hungry before). Even she said “I’m not going to lose weight eating whatever I want.” I don’t care what my daughter looks like—she takes my breath away with her beauty. But she gets made fun of for being fat, and I don’t know how to help her in a way that doesn’t lead to more issues later. So I feel for you, OP.

I wrote the post above you. Food is not the enemy, it can nourish our bodies with what we need. Embrace that. Eat color, natural foods with fiber and filled with nutrients. Focus on keeping those foods in the house. You shouldn't ban junk food, but those are occasional treats, and shouldn't necessarily be kept in the house. They are easy to get anywhere. Little tweaks can make a big difference over time. Avoid liquid calories, and empty calories in general. Use smaller plates. No late night eating, it's not good for your sleep or your digestive system.

Also, if your child just simply eats too fast, maybe consider just serving pre-portioned dinner plates for everyone with a small pre-portioned dessert, like a restaurant. Then sometime after dinner, and before bed, offer a plate of unlimited fruit for whoever is still hungry for something.

Anonymous wrote:Why not just let your kid eat what they want? Expect some random overeating in the first few months as they adjust (and worry you’re going to take the privilege away) but then it should settle down and your kid will start to self regulate.

You should not be in control of food at that age. What is going to happen when they go to camp/travel with friends/college? It’s better to allow them to experiment now in the comfort of home rather than have them go nuts when they are older.

My kids (12, 10, 8) are allowed unfettered access to our fridge and pantry at all times (save for labeled ingredients for recipes. I literally write on the cracker box, these are for Wednesday’s soup, please don’t eat). And the pantry has a mix of things. Trail mix and Cheese Doodles. Oreos and fruit leather. Some expensive chocolate and a thing of Nerds. Etc. They all make reasonable choices. If they eat a ton immediately before dinner, we don’t say anything. They still will sit with us and hang out (dinner in our house is a lot of fun because they are all very silly and we laugh a lot), but I don’t care if they eat it or not. They can also make something else if they don’t feel like eating what I made. I literally could not tell you who ate what for dinner last night, it is that low of a priority in my mind.

They are all healthy weights and heights, active and growing. I am definitely the most laid back about food in my social circle but my kids have absolutely no food issues.

So this is where I am struggling - half of the people who responded are saying don’t buy the processed snacks or cheeseburgers/pizza and the others are saying don’t restrict anything and just let her eat what she wants and she will learn. If I don’t buy those things, thus not allowing her to eat the things she really likes, then I am setting her up to binge on them elsewhere or when she can get them. But if I do buy them and allow her to eat them in moderation (I.e. one processed snack per day and then offer something else) I am being too controlling.

Maybe professional help is the answer!

Anonymous wrote:I’m the OP of the thread on whether Ellyn Sattler works for kids who can’t regulate their food intake. My daughter is definitely overweight, and has no “off” switch when it comes to food she likes (not just junk, but anything she really likes.). Always has been like this. But she now wants to lose weight, and I’m really struggling with how to approach it for all the reasons given here. A week of trying Sattler’s approach has led to, I would guess, a doubling in my child’s consumption for the week (and I assure you she was not going hungry before). Even she said “I’m not going to lose weight eating whatever I want.” I don’t care what my daughter looks like—she takes my breath away with her beauty. But she gets made fun of for being fat, and I don’t know how to help her in a way that doesn’t lead to more issues later. So I feel for you, OP.

If she’s really overeating, she will be in pain. Does she eat past the point of pain? Does she not realize when her stomach is full?
Our bodies want healthy food. We all know it’s fun maybe once to eat a whole pizza, but if you eat an entire pizza everyday, you will very obviously not feel good. At first when you start eating intuitively, you’re still learning about what hunger and fullness means, so it might take a little while.
So either your daughter is ignoring her body/doesn’t understand her body, or…. Maybe she’s just genetically programmed to be big? And if so, is that really what you want for your daughter’s life - an everyday struggle to eat less than she wants to eat, and to always hate and be at war with her body? Why not just let her be a bigger person? I’m not saying like my-600-lb life big, but plenty of women are “overweight” and still very healthy and it’s just how their body is. I feel bad she’s getting made fun of, but kids get made fun of for lots of things - curly hair, glasses, etc etc etc.