Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

Mine the same but 2 years ago. Straight A’s, 36 ACT, and goo EC’s, coming from a rigorous curriculum at a top HS. So, I completely understand your feelings.

The problem with Williams is that they sponsor just about every sport that NESCAC offers. With 800+ athletes at a college with 2000+ students, almost 40% of the admissions spots are taken before otherwise regular applicants are even considered, i.e. 200 of 500+ In a freshman clas are athletes. It seems that the priorities are screwy when this high a percent of the spots are claimed for those whose achievements are non-academic at what is supposedly top academic school.

But there’s more. 170+ international students are enrolled, or about 40+ per freshman class. With a number of other spots reserved for those with other hooks, it would seem that less than half of the spots of an incoming freshman class go to students based on academic merit. Among NESCAC members, the number of athletes at Williams is 2nd only to Tufts, a school almost triple its size.

All of this is probably true, however those selected with hooks - like athletic ability to fill the numerous roster spots - likely have impressive academic stats too. It's not necessarily an either/or proposition. In the selective numbers game Williams is priorizing smart kids with hooks over smart kids without hooks.

The majority of these athletes are also white and from middle class or more affluent backgrounds so the college is also prioritizing that too. I point this out because plenty of white parents on this board and outside this forum often seem to suggest that URM students are getting in over their kids because of that “hook.” Look at the rosters and team photos.

https://ephsports.williams.edu/
https://athletics.amherst.edu/
https://swarthmoreathletics.com/
https://haverfordathletics.com/landing/index

Most look majority white. Also look at the schools and towns these students come from. Lots of affluent to very affluent suburbs and independent/boarding schools represented. If your kid is from a similar demographic but not an athlete, they may not be offered a spot because the school decided they needed to fill the team roster and while your kid was smart, accomplished and had great extracurriculars, they didn’t row, swim, golf, fence, or play LAX, fieldhockey, or soccer.

If you are a nonathlete white person from a middle class or affluent background, those are probably the kids who had the hook that got them in over your son or daughter. Not the URM or first generation students. No, your kid’s squash playing, golf playing, rowing (crew), skiing, etc. classmate got in instead. I think everyone says well they worked hard on their sport. They sacrificed study time etc. Yes, that is true. But a lot of those sports (and frankly the majority of college sports) require $$$$$ to play. Equipment for many of these sports is expensive. Travel and club fees are expensive. Outside coaches and trainers are expensive. The colleges (especially many of these SLACs) value winning at sports and filling team rosters. They value that more than they value other activities that nonathlete students put a tremendous amount of time and effort into. That is the reality. They just don’t advertise it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500+ SAT all As at highly regarded private (school doesn’t offer AP classes but DC took 4 and got 4s and 5s). Varsity sport, leadership in ECs. Legacy - rejected. Waitlisted at all others. No acceptances today. Brutal.

If your kid is wsitlisted at all the other schools they applied to, it seems they weren't realistic.

How can the private be highly regarded but offer no APs?? Something doesn’t make sense here.

Some of the DC/MD privates do not offer "AP"courses but have created their own curricula to teach the same materials that should be covered by the AP Exams. Because the privates do not pay the College Board for the materials, they cannot call the course "AP ___". As students are not required to take College Board approved/trademarked AP courses to take the AP exams, it's commons for students at the privates to take the AP exams, and they usually do much better on the exams than the public school students who were taught using the official Colllege Board materials. I was told that St. Albans' AP AB Cal exam average is a 4.5; the average is a 2 at one of the MCPS' W schools.

In fact, St. Albans and Landon got into a p--- match with the College Board a couple of years ago. College Board threatened to sue the DC/MD privates because it couldn't believe that the privates' students were doing so well on the exams without having stolen College Board's materials. Essentially, College Board wanted money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

Mine the same but 2 years ago. Straight A’s, 36 ACT, and goo EC’s, coming from a rigorous curriculum at a top HS. So, I completely understand your feelings.

The problem with Williams is that they sponsor just about every sport that NESCAC offers. With 800+ athletes at a college with 2000+ students, almost 40% of the admissions spots are taken before otherwise regular applicants are even considered, i.e. 200 of 500+ In a freshman clas are athletes. It seems that the priorities are screwy when this high a percent of the spots are claimed for those whose achievements are non-academic at what is supposedly top academic school.

But there’s more. 170+ international students are enrolled, or about 40+ per freshman class. With a number of other spots reserved for those with other hooks, it would seem that less than half of the spots of an incoming freshman class go to students based on academic merit. Among NESCAC members, the number of athletes at Williams is 2nd only to Tufts, a school almost triple its size.

All of this is probably true, however those selected with hooks - like athletic ability to fill the numerous roster spots - likely have impressive academic stats too. It's not necessarily an either/or proposition. In the selective numbers game Williams is priorizing smart kids with hooks over smart kids without hooks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

I'm also a Williams alum and I understand your disappointment. I do need to ask, though, whether you and your kids were aware that legacy status will really only be considered in the early round?

I was wondering this too. Because all the schools I know that give legacy preference, it only helps if you apply ED.

Disappointed Williams alum here from upthread: I've been told this in the past, and the legacy kids I know that have gotten in to Williams and other similar schools generally have applied ED. But my kid wasn't ready to commit to Williams at that point, so ED wasn't a good option for him. And to be clear, I knew that he wasn't entitled to anything, and that getting in was never a sure thing. The College has its own admissions priorities, and my smallish (but until now incredibly consistent donations) were not going to move the needle. But the College has made a statement to me that I'm not terribly important to it, and that approach will likely go both ways in the future. Its disappointing, because one of the great things about Williams is the community it fosters, both while in school and throughout life. (Its always been amazing to me to see how many Williams widows (who never went to Williams) come to the 50th reunions). And while I'm not in the least bit upset at my Williams community, my relationship with the College itself has been damaged.

I totally get what you're saying, especially when two kids were denied and who are highly qualified.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

I'm also a Williams alum and I understand your disappointment. I do need to ask, though, whether you and your kids were aware that legacy status will really only be considered in the early round?

I was wondering this too. Because all the schools I know that give legacy preference, it only helps if you apply ED.

Disappointed Williams alum here from upthread: I've been told this in the past, and the legacy kids I know that have gotten in to Williams and other similar schools generally have applied ED. But my kid wasn't ready to commit to Williams at that point, so ED wasn't a good option for him. And to be clear, I knew that he wasn't entitled to anything, and that getting in was never a sure thing. The College has its own admissions priorities, and my smallish (but until now incredibly consistent donations) were not going to move the needle. But the College has made a statement to me that I'm not terribly important to it, and that approach will likely go both ways in the future. Its disappointing, because one of the great things about Williams is the community it fosters, both while in school and throughout life. (Its always been amazing to me to see how many Williams widows (who never went to Williams) come to the 50th reunions). And while I'm not in the least bit upset at my Williams community, my relationship with the College itself has been damaged.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

I'm also a Williams alum and I understand your disappointment. I do need to ask, though, whether you and your kids were aware that legacy status will really only be considered in the early round?

I was wondering this too. Because all the schools I know that give legacy preference, it only helps if you apply ED.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

I'm also a Williams alum and I understand your disappointment. I do need to ask, though, whether you and your kids were aware that legacy status will really only be considered in the early round?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

Mine the same but 2 years ago. Straight A’s, 36 ACT, and goo EC’s, coming from a rigorous curriculum at a top HS. So, I completely understand your feelings.

The problem with Williams is that they sponsor just about every sport that NESCAC offers. With 800+ athletes at a college with 2000+ students, almost 40% of the admissions spots are taken before otherwise regular applicants are even considered, i.e. 200 of 500+ In a freshman clas are athletes. It seems that the priorities are screwy when this high a percent of the spots are claimed for those whose achievements are non-academic at what is supposedly top academic school.

But there’s more. 170+ international students are enrolled, or about 40+ per freshman class. With a number of other spots reserved for those with other hooks, it would seem that less than half of the spots of an incoming freshman class go to students based on academic merit. Among NESCAC members, the number of athletes at Williams is 2nd only to Tufts, a school almost triple its size.

Thanks for this.

I can’t imagine wanting to go one to one of these tiny schools if you’re not on a team.

I can. I have one at a larger university that is spending a lot of time and energy to get into small classes. At a slac....that would be automatic.

Why didn’t they go to a Slac?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is tiny and half the kids there are legacies.

Didn't help my kid, with straight A's in HS and a 4.53 wGPA, a 35 ACT, and good EC's. Second kid who didn't get in to Williams, notwithstanding legacy status. Both kids were easily qualified to get in. I get that there are tons of super qualified kids who are rejected every year, but its really left a sour taste in my mouth. Gonna be a while before I think fondly of Williams again. I'll remember the good education and experience I had there, and I value the friends I made there, but I'm pretty mad at the College right now.

Mine the same but 2 years ago. Straight A’s, 36 ACT, and goo EC’s, coming from a rigorous curriculum at a top HS. So, I completely understand your feelings.

The problem with Williams is that they sponsor just about every sport that NESCAC offers. With 800+ athletes at a college with 2000+ students, almost 40% of the admissions spots are taken before otherwise regular applicants are even considered, i.e. 200 of 500+ In a freshman clas are athletes. It seems that the priorities are screwy when this high a percent of the spots are claimed for those whose achievements are non-academic at what is supposedly top academic school.

But there’s more. 170+ international students are enrolled, or about 40+ per freshman class. With a number of other spots reserved for those with other hooks, it would seem that less than half of the spots of an incoming freshman class go to students based on academic merit. Among NESCAC members, the number of athletes at Williams is 2nd only to Tufts, a school almost triple its size.

Thanks for this.

I can’t imagine wanting to go one to one of these tiny schools if you’re not on a team.

I can. I have one at a larger university that is spending a lot of time and energy to get into small classes. At a slac....that would be automatic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500+ SAT all As at highly regarded private (school doesn’t offer AP classes but DC took 4 and got 4s and 5s). Varsity sport, leadership in ECs. Legacy - rejected. Waitlisted at all others. No acceptances today. Brutal.

Similar to mine. 1560 SAT, 3.98UW, 4.85W, top magnet, 5s on APs, NMF, actor who won awards and has worked professionally, capt of sports team, national award, state orch, multiple regional awards, club pres, decent service. Rejected from Williams.

You guys sound surprised. They rejected 93% of applicants.

Your children sound amazing, they honestly do, but that does not mean all doors will be open to then. Adjust your attitude.

Please try not to be a jerk. Clearly we knew that this was not a given, but her stats are amazing (this is by no means a complete list). Heaven forbid you all just offer a little sympathy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Was trying to add, … but Pomona overshot by a lot here.

I’m sorry— are you saying we need quotas for white students now?

No. Im saying that a sensible system that accounts for historical disadvantage would produce demographics that resemble the population as a whole.

In a system like that it would be easier to use Naviance data and placement within peer groups locally to identify a good mix of schools to which to apply. Under the system as it is this year, it’s not. Which is why there are a lot of kids with very surprising outcomes.