I plan to spend it sailing the high seas,, drinking cocktails, flirting with hot women, and enjoying myself until I Cross the Bar. I'll send my kids a postcard. Almost 50, female. I've always been a pirate. Raised my kids to mutiny.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP.

To the PP who claims that all over Europe multiple generations live under one roof, this is not quite accurate.

I have relatives and friends in Europe and it is definitely not the norm where they live. It may be more common in southern European countries (e.g. in Spain, Italy, Greece etc.) but it is not as common in northern Europe where people move into nursing homes, Assisted Living and other facilities.

The downside is that there are often long waiting lists to get into nursing homes and AL.
A relative in Europe told me there currently is a waiting list of 1500 people in one of her local nursing homes, and some people put themselves on the waiting list years before they even want to move in there.

This. We have friends in Italy from when I lived there for a year as a child. Their adult daughter is under their roof because she is financially dependent on them. She is divorced (no children) and lost her job. There are big unemployment issues. I assume if they support her for years she will stay and take care of them, but that certainly isn't the same as expecting your independent working adult children who have their own children to drop everything for your needs.

I still keep in touch with the a friend from when I stayed with a family in Spain in high school as an exchange student. Her set up is the parents were nannies for many years to her kids, but live separately in the same building. They also brought over meals frequently and would take the kids for weeks at a time so she could vacation with just her husband. It's a very loving family. There is no stress at the thought of being there for her own parents because they scarified so much, but really it wasn't a sacrifice because they truly adore their grandchildren and adult kids and the spouses. That is so different from when you have parents who didn't help you much during the most stressful parenting issues, weren't very nurturing as parents yet have massive expectations for what you will do as they age.

One more scenario to share...our current down the street neighbors are from Italy originally. They are constantly going to their adult daughter's house to help with the grandkids and make life easier for them. She truly loves it and has a warm relationship with all 3 of her daughters and the spouses. Interesting to note, she did not care for her own parents in Italy. I had a heart to heart with her which was so comforting. They were much like my parents-not warm and very into their own lives with lots of pressure to keep up appearances. While I get frequent guilt trips for not doing enough, she told me she admired me for what i do. She stopped for years even going back to Italy because she couldn't take it. She returned to annual visits to see her siblings once her parents passed. So much depends on the personalities of those involved.

Back to OP, I have posted before I think to say I have some childless elders who were in continued care before passing. I will say they seemed to age much better than those with adult kids. they built community and didn't waste days obsessing over what everyone should be doing for them. My great aunt had a group of people she paid and checks and balances in place. Her accountant, case manager and lawyer took care of managing things and audited eachother. We visited her, but did not attend to any of that. We could just enjoy seeing her.

I'm the OP.

To the PP who claims that all over Europe multiple generations live under one roof, this is not quite accurate.

I have relatives and friends in Europe and it is definitely not the norm where they live. It may be more common in southern European countries (e.g. in Spain, Italy, Greece etc.) but it is not as common in northern Europe where people move into nursing homes, Assisted Living and other facilities.

The downside is that there are often long waiting lists to get into nursing homes and AL.
A relative in Europe told me there currently is a waiting list of 1500 people in one of her local nursing homes, and some people put themselves on the waiting list years before they even want to move in there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom has had serious mental illnesses (schizo-affective disorder and bipolar disorder) since I was around 4 years old. My dad abandoned us when I was 6 so, needless to say, life was tough for my mom, me and my two older sisters. Somehow, I managed to make it through college and law school, get married and have two sweet babies (now pre-teens). When dating my then-boyfriend, now husband, I explained that I would not be putting my mom in a nursing home in her old age. When we bought our first house together (about 10 years ago), we moved my mom in with us. It has not been easy. Her meds keep her "just" sane enough most days but not all days. My amazing husband has more patience for her than I do, since, as he notes "she's a very sick person." My children also see that she is very sick and have learned to treat her with kindness.

Aside from the challenges of dealing with a mentally unstable person, we have supported her though 2 hip surgeries, skin cancer, surgery to correct pelvic prolapse, lots of physical therapy and, of course, many visits to see her psychiatrist.

Did I mention it has not been easy? I have gone through periods where I literally hated her, hated my life and wondered what the hell I was doing. But this I know, putting her in a nursing home would subject her to an extremely sad ending to an extremely sad life. My mom, after her hip surgeries, has stayed at some of the nicest nursing homes in the DC Metro area and I'm sorry to say that even the nicest nursing homes in the DC metro area are not very nice. It's where people go to die. No matter how nice some of the staff are (and we met some incredible staff), they are still overworked and underpaid for what they do. They still managed to mess up her meds sometimes. She still got UTI's. It's simply not a place you put someone if you care anything about them.

I have very vivid memories of my mom struggling to keep two jobs so my sisters and I would not end up in foster care. I recall her being hospitalized for 2 weeks, being discharged and going on job interviews two days later (this usually happened every 6-9 months). She never, ever gave up. And even though my childhood was plenty sad, and even tragic - I know that without her motivation to protect us, it could have been so much worse.

I sometimes wonder what motivates me to keep her in my home, despite the incredible challenges she presents. Guilt? Do I have some kind of savior-syndrome? I don't know.

My life could be so much different if she didn't live with us, but I can't say it would be better. The thought of my sick mom, lying alone in a nursing home bed, would simply make me miserable.

I don't get this. We are not trained nurses and caregivers(!), we have full-time jobs and kids - surely our parents would be better in a facility where they can be supervised and taken care of properly, with others the same age for social interaction. Not ideal I understand but how is having them at our homes better?!

What part do you not "get"? All over Europe, there are multiple generations under the same roof. My family is Spain is the same way. Both parents work, kids go to school and the grandparents help around the house until they themselves need the help. They all figure out how to make it work. No one gets "taken care of properly" by nursing homes and the like. They simply don't pay people enough to provide adequate supervision and/or care of elderly folks who cannot care for themselves. The consequences include bed sores, missing or mixed-up medications, untreated illnesses. People who are paid, especially those paid low wages, will never, ever, EVER care for you as well as your family can.

I have known people who were in this situation (no family) who seemed to be trying to end their lives early by smoking, heavy drinking, risk taking and they died in their 60's. It was horrible to watch them when I was much younger, but now I understand that they probably feared a drawn out illness in old age and tortured existence without any family to support them. I wish the government supported elderly better.

Anonymous wrote:I’d save for a nice over 55 community with various levels of care. I had relatives in a nice one and it was so great—library, shuttle to doctors/mall, movie theater on premises, game room, dining room, activities, staff to help you change lightbulbs.
Short of that, a faith community, or sometimes chosen family. Like if you had a younger neighbor or colleague that yiu help when they are in the sandwich crush, they may be grateful and help you when you are old. There are people like that but you can’t really count on it.

I agree that this is the only solution to building a support network (no guarantee) other than joining a church (no guarantee). This is the problem that millions of childless people are facing in old age, so you are not alone. I know many people who are left standing alone, when spouse and parents die off. Build a support network while you are healthy. There are others like you - find them.

My father in law, an old school family lawyer, was the designated organizer of these things for several elderly clients with no close family. Obviously, you must, must, must select carefully to develop this kind of relationship and trustworthiness, but it's a fairly common solution--family attorney that you pay to handle your affairs in a very broad sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for taking the time to post your comments.

The reason I started this thread is because of my MIL. My MIL is 92 years old, she was widowed 10 years ago and she still lives in her own house. MIL suffers from dementia. She receives a lot of support from my DH and his 2 siblings, and from various home health aides.
MIL receives round the clock care in her own home, 24/7, 365 days a year. Cleaner/housekeeper 4 times a week, 3 live-in aides/companions (24/7) who work in shifts, other aides, and MIL's children who keep her company in rotation.

MIL is a wealthy woman, she can afford to hire aides round the clock. The reason she is getting so much hands on support is because her 3 children (including my DH) have financial POA and they hired the aides on her behalf.

DH and I will never get this kind of help when we are elderly, because we don't have children to organize the help for us, should we become cognitively impaired. So our job is to do the organising ourselves while we are still physically healthy and sound of mind. Forward planning is key, but how ...?

I find it quite depressing thinking of all of this right now. I sometimes suffer from bouts of anxiety and then I start catastrophizing things in my mind. My DH - being 9 years older than me - laughs it off and says after he dies I should enjoy the pension pot and have fun!

Yes this is the KEY right here. Absolutely. My eldely mother has me to oversee and organize food/assistance/finances. I have NO idea what state she would be in if she didn't have me around (only child). It's quite alarming!

Does your mother live on her own, is she aging in place. This is why people are suggesting over 55's and then independent living. They manage food and medical assistance. They take care of all maintenance issues and offer numerous social activities and outings. They organise transportation to local shops and doctors. The only thing is finances however I am sure OP could organise that and plan for finances to be organised into something that is easy to manage in older age. My grandfather who was in independent living was still managing his finances up till 90 when he died and so was my grandmother until her early 90's. With planning beforehand to make it workable, it can be done. Just keep it simple.

It's great that you posted how you have NO idea and how it's quite alarming. You offer nothing except to stress OP into more anxiety. It's great that you do so much. My in-laws demand people around them to do so much that they could do themselves and they have aged twice as fast as a result. Their brains have turned into sloppy messes. Other family members have been quite independent and they seemed to retain their vitality much longer. They are not silly and don't act like children.

So OP continue to use your brain, continue to push yourself to socialise and it will certainly help you. You can plan early, perhaps you don't need to make changes now but you can plan.

Over 55 communities are NOT the same as "independent living" or CCCs. Please don't confuse

An over 55 is just age restricted living. There are amenties, maybe, but no services, no health services. They are like little or big resorts.

Independent livings and CCCs have for older people who want to have the security of services, meals, health options, and there are a variety of amenities, too. People generally access these places at around 75+.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d save for a nice over 55 community with various levels of care. I had relatives in a nice one and it was so great—library, shuttle to doctors/mall, movie theater on premises, game room, dining room, activities, staff to help you change lightbulbs.
Short of that, a faith community, or sometimes chosen family. Like if you had a younger neighbor or colleague that yiu help when they are in the sandwich crush, they may be grateful and help you when you are old. There are people like that but you can’t really count on it.

This is OP. An over 55 community may be the right place for some people but I think the downside is that residents end up socialising with people their age group only.

My ideal situation is to have a wide network of friends and acquaintances of all ages. I would also like to form a closer bond with my remaining relatives, especially my cousins and their kids, but the relationship is kind of one-sided at the moment. I am always the initiator. I never hear from them if I don't make contact first.
It's sad. I wish my cousins and I had been closer from childhood but sadly that never happened. I don't know why. Family dynamics I guess.

This isn't necessarily true. 55+ communities are vastly different now than they were 10-20 years ago, primarily because people are much more vital and active. One of the positives is that you are with a peer group many of whom may be in a similar situation to you. They turn to each other for support and they can count on each other.

FWIW I know quite a few people who have children who are estranged from them and have no contact, including with grandchildren. This is happening more often as extended family does not seem to have as much importance as it once did. (Look at the DCUM forums for how hated many parents and ILs are and how quickly they are cut off.) Today, many parents are deemed toxic for having human faults. Oftentimes the theraputic community is fully behind estrangement from family of origin. That's just how it is now. I've seen the hearbreak it's caused my friends who are parents and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I see their pain and I have no regrets for being childless.

Retirement communities have a lot of activities and clubs, are also big on volunteer work in the community so you will have options to get involved with organizations that focus on kids in need, environmental, animal shelters, veterans issues, you name it. There are nice communities all over the country, some large some small, so you could find one that fits what you are looking for.

Do you plan to retire in place? If so, now is the time for you and DH to start getting involved in community. Reach out and get involved in volunteering and you will begin to meet like-minded people. Generally speaking, people who volunteer usually are friendly and like to help others so it's never a mistake to look at that demographic.

+1 you can also find one in an area that has a lot of diversity - it's not like you're held captive in the 55+ community and can't leave. you can work, volunteer, go to events, etc. my husband's parents moved to a 55+ when they relocated to be closer to his brother and their kids, and they quickly formed a tight community. i think it is a great way to find community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom has had serious mental illnesses (schizo-affective disorder and bipolar disorder) since I was around 4 years old. My dad abandoned us when I was 6 so, needless to say, life was tough for my mom, me and my two older sisters. Somehow, I managed to make it through college and law school, get married and have two sweet babies (now pre-teens). When dating my then-boyfriend, now husband, I explained that I would not be putting my mom in a nursing home in her old age. When we bought our first house together (about 10 years ago), we moved my mom in with us. It has not been easy. Her meds keep her "just" sane enough most days but not all days. My amazing husband has more patience for her than I do, since, as he notes "she's a very sick person." My children also see that she is very sick and have learned to treat her with kindness.

Aside from the challenges of dealing with a mentally unstable person, we have supported her though 2 hip surgeries, skin cancer, surgery to correct pelvic prolapse, lots of physical therapy and, of course, many visits to see her psychiatrist.

Did I mention it has not been easy? I have gone through periods where I literally hated her, hated my life and wondered what the hell I was doing. But this I know, putting her in a nursing home would subject her to an extremely sad ending to an extremely sad life. My mom, after her hip surgeries, has stayed at some of the nicest nursing homes in the DC Metro area and I'm sorry to say that even the nicest nursing homes in the DC metro area are not very nice. It's where people go to die. No matter how nice some of the staff are (and we met some incredible staff), they are still overworked and underpaid for what they do. They still managed to mess up her meds sometimes. She still got UTI's. It's simply not a place you put someone if you care anything about them.

I have very vivid memories of my mom struggling to keep two jobs so my sisters and I would not end up in foster care. I recall her being hospitalized for 2 weeks, being discharged and going on job interviews two days later (this usually happened every 6-9 months). She never, ever gave up. And even though my childhood was plenty sad, and even tragic - I know that without her motivation to protect us, it could have been so much worse.

I sometimes wonder what motivates me to keep her in my home, despite the incredible challenges she presents. Guilt? Do I have some kind of savior-syndrome? I don't know.

My life could be so much different if she didn't live with us, but I can't say it would be better. The thought of my sick mom, lying alone in a nursing home bed, would simply make me miserable.

I don't get this. We are not trained nurses and caregivers(!), we have full-time jobs and kids - surely our parents would be better in a facility where they can be supervised and taken care of properly, with others the same age for social interaction. Not ideal I understand but how is having them at our homes better?!

One of the worst things you do for your brain is rot at home and only interact with people who feel obligated to visit. The neurologist told is the brain activity that goes with making new friends, keeping social skills fresh, remembering names, etc is absolutely PRICELESS. The difference I saw in my own family between them rotting on the couch while guilt tripping family into taking them places and not having to behave or do anything novel vs. in a residential setting was massive. There is joy in connecting with peers and getting that social reinforcement from new people. We are social beings. Sure it's good to see family, but it is not good to get so comfortable that your social skills erode. That just speeds up the deterioration.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for taking the time to post your comments.

The reason I started this thread is because of my MIL. My MIL is 92 years old, she was widowed 10 years ago and she still lives in her own house. MIL suffers from dementia. She receives a lot of support from my DH and his 2 siblings, and from various home health aides.
MIL receives round the clock care in her own home, 24/7, 365 days a year. Cleaner/housekeeper 4 times a week, 3 live-in aides/companions (24/7) who work in shifts, other aides, and MIL's children who keep her company in rotation.

MIL is a wealthy woman, she can afford to hire aides round the clock. The reason she is getting so much hands on support is because her 3 children (including my DH) have financial POA and they hired the aides on her behalf.

DH and I will never get this kind of help when we are elderly, because we don't have children to organize the help for us, should we become cognitively impaired. So our job is to do the organising ourselves while we are still physically healthy and sound of mind. Forward planning is key, but how ...?

I find it quite depressing thinking of all of this right now. I sometimes suffer from bouts of anxiety and then I start catastrophizing things in my mind. My DH - being 9 years older than me - laughs it off and says after he dies I should enjoy the pension pot and have fun!

Yes this is the KEY right here. Absolutely. My eldely mother has me to oversee and organize food/assistance/finances. I have NO idea what state she would be in if she didn't have me around (only child). It's quite alarming!

Hi, OP here. I'm pleased your mother has you, and you are helping her.
We are childless so we will be left to our own devices.
Forward planning is key, but it's hard to make drastic decisions about our future right now. I'm only 54, DH 63. DH is taking retirement this year whereas I'm still working, and I'd like to keep working for AT LEAST another 8 to 10 years. At the same time we don't want to wait and leave things until we are too old, tired, frail and/or ill with potential physical & mental issues.

A lot of people have suggested over 55s communities. We consider ourselves far too young for those at the moment, but we may change our minds in the future, who knows ...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are taking the word "advocate" very literally.

This could mean being at Drs appts, listening, weighing alternatives, deciding on care, doing research to determine best alternatives.

No one said a thing about extending someones life beyond what they want.

Stop projecting.

You can hire a case manager to do these things. Often times families burn out from this stuff. Elderly are living longer. It's no longer doing this for a few years. It can be 20 years of it and by then you have your own health issues and so does your spouse and you have to decide that that is more important. I have been at this for a long time and have seen our friends and people we have met through support groups go through it. It is a huge burden when they have many health issues and live a long time and anyone who knows the reality is going to set limits with a relative who wants to get close and might ask you to be their person. At some point you decide you have to have more boundaries with your own family and after enough times you hire people they can use so you can advocate for your own health. I have known far too many people who developed cancer, diabetes, heart issues, etc while being there for their own parents and they finally had to stop being there so much for their own parents and start attending their own doctor's appointments and focusing on self-care. In the first few years of being the support person for parents and inlaws I might have agreed with you, but honestly now I think we all should have a plan to pay people to be there because if we live a long life with many medical issues we cannot keep expecting our kids to escort us to doctor's appointments, and other things.

My elderly mother has no notion of how to hire a case manager or what one even is.
Her saving grace is that I help and will oversee and hire help later as needed.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for taking the time to post your comments.

The reason I started this thread is because of my MIL. My MIL is 92 years old, she was widowed 10 years ago and she still lives in her own house. MIL suffers from dementia. She receives a lot of support from my DH and his 2 siblings, and from various home health aides.
MIL receives round the clock care in her own home, 24/7, 365 days a year. Cleaner/housekeeper 4 times a week, 3 live-in aides/companions (24/7) who work in shifts, other aides, and MIL's children who keep her company in rotation.

MIL is a wealthy woman, she can afford to hire aides round the clock. The reason she is getting so much hands on support is because her 3 children (including my DH) have financial POA and they hired the aides on her behalf.

DH and I will never get this kind of help when we are elderly, because we don't have children to organize the help for us, should we become cognitively impaired. So our job is to do the organising ourselves while we are still physically healthy and sound of mind. Forward planning is key, but how ...?

I find it quite depressing thinking of all of this right now. I sometimes suffer from bouts of anxiety and then I start catastrophizing things in my mind. My DH - being 9 years older than me - laughs it off and says after he dies I should enjoy the pension pot and have fun!

Yes this is the KEY right here. Absolutely. My eldely mother has me to oversee and organize food/assistance/finances. I have NO idea what state she would be in if she didn't have me around (only child). It's quite alarming!

Anonymous wrote:Church.

Really. My 80 year old mother is so flipping active in her church, and the parishioners take care of one another. My mom drives her 92 year old friend to doctor's appointments, for example, because that 92 year old doesn't have family close by. The ministers come visit you in the hospital quite often, and they often organize a group of congregants to take turns visiting on the ill or infirm. They really take care of one another. Heck, my mom event got me to go shovel the driveway of an 85 year old woman who broke her hip going to get mail, because her driveway was icy, and her 87 year old husband has dementia. And I was happy to do so. So it's not just like it's the congregants themselves who are helping each other out. They pull in their families and their resources as well.

I'm sure any house of worship is like this. I only mention church because we are Christian. My mother didn't join a church until my dad passed away and my mom was 65. I am not active. My life is crazy busy right now, but I do plan to go back, perhaps after my kid goes away to college. They aren't perfect. You have dysfunction just like you do in a family. But they look after you like family as well.

Wow my experience with elderly parents and church was the opposite. Neither one had any church members involved in any shape or form. Didn't even notice they no longer attended church (because they were going downhill).