Anonymous
01/13/2022 12:38
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that people on DCUM have such rich families they are disappointed the parents don't offer to pay for flights in addition to accomodations. I can't even imagine.
It amazes me you don't get it. It's not like this a trip OP wants to go on to a wonderful place and she gets the bonus of some parts paid for. It's a manipulative "gift" where she is still forced to pay a chunk of money and take off from work.
If your spouse is on board, you politely decline. These days Covid is a great excuse. Give a nice gift with heartwarming card and be done. Let the chips/drama fall where it may.
It is no more manipulative than a wedding invite. In fact, that is the perfect analogy. These people want to celebrate an important life milestone and they want to do so with their family. They are shelling out the cost of the specific event, but others will have to pay to get there and other incidentals. It is also disruptive to their lives and might not be where they would choose to go on their own at the time they would go.
Sure, people get annoyed about weddings, and sometimes for good reason. But that is all this is. Same thing.
It really isn't, but you tried.
You can really tell who has experienced this in their family and who hasn't. Twisting themselves into the usual DCUM pretzels to defend / do their devil's advocate game.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 12:33
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
Of course it’s realistic to expect adults to pay their own way, but if they are paying, then they get equal share in planning of the trip. The problem with a lot of the stories posted is that certain family members are choosing the destination, lodging, dates, etc. and then expecting others to burn up their discretionary travel money and time off work to make this vision come to fruition.
FWIW, DH and I do vacation with my parents once every year or two (sometimes at a vacation home and sometimes just traveling to go visit them since they have spare bedrooms and live near a beach). There is never any expectation that the plans all resolve around them and they don’t take credit for “gifting” us something that we are contributing to as well.
The discussion usually goes along the lines of my parents saying they’d love to book some time to see us and the kids over the summer. They ask about our work and the kids’ camp schedules. We offer up some dates that might work (they’re retired so more flexible than us). We throw out our needs (e.g. when kids were really small and car seats/pack n plays, etc. were an issue we said we’d prefer something within a 5 hour driving distance from us vs. flying). We all then threw out ideas — beach towns vs. mountain houses vs. condo in NYC. There have been occasions where they’ve paid our airfare (when we felt up for flying with kids) because it wasn’t in the budget. It was a generous no-strings attached offer and not a demand.
If you want to plan a vacation with your children and their future families then you either need to offer to pay most everything as a gift that they are free to decline or you need to co-plan it with them as adults.
Exactly. My parents can't afford to fly everyone around, so they tend to coordinate a rental within driving distance for everyone (except me, who moved far away). I come a lot of the time, but it is not "mandatory" meaning no guilt trips if I can't go. They coordinate dates/locations/details with those who are attending. My in laws are similar. My sister's MIL/FIL can afford to fly people places, so my sister goes on vacation with them to a variety of destinations, and that is fine too. Still have to coordinate people's vacation time. No one presents this as a gift to the family, though if the parents pay for lodging everyone says thank you and is appreciative and contributes for food and other stuff.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 12:28
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
We've never vacationed with my in laws. They are divorced and visit us separately, and we pay for their flights. We go stay with my parents about once a year because they have a nice house with a pool and lots of space in a warm location, so our kids are very happy there. We've never really vacationed with family, though. I don't plan to cover the cost of our adult children and their families to vacation with us in the future. We'd have to be uber rich for that to make sense to me.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 12:19
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
Of course it’s realistic to expect adults to pay their own way, but if they are paying, then they get equal share in planning of the trip. The problem with a lot of the stories posted is that certain family members are choosing the destination, lodging, dates, etc. and then expecting others to burn up their discretionary travel money and time off work to make this vision come to fruition.
FWIW, DH and I do vacation with my parents once every year or two (sometimes at a vacation home and sometimes just traveling to go visit them since they have spare bedrooms and live near a beach). There is never any expectation that the plans all resolve around them and they don’t take credit for “gifting” us something that we are contributing to as well.
The discussion usually goes along the lines of my parents saying they’d love to book some time to see us and the kids over the summer. They ask about our work and the kids’ camp schedules. We offer up some dates that might work (they’re retired so more flexible than us). We throw out our needs (e.g. when kids were really small and car seats/pack n plays, etc. were an issue we said we’d prefer something within a 5 hour driving distance from us vs. flying). We all then threw out ideas — beach towns vs. mountain houses vs. condo in NYC. There have been occasions where they’ve paid our airfare (when we felt up for flying with kids) because it wasn’t in the budget. It was a generous no-strings attached offer and not a demand.
If you want to plan a vacation with your children and their future families then you either need to offer to pay most everything as a gift that they are free to decline or you need to co-plan it with them as adults.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 11:54
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
If I offer, I pay all expenses. If it doesn’t suit one family, no hard feelings.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 11:29
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
There is a HUGE difference between renting a large ski chalet as a “gift” to all your children (but expecting them to spend thousands on airfare and can rentals) vs. saying, “Would any of you like to join us for skiing this winter? We could go to A B or C resorts” (with prices listed).
People are not inherently resentful of paying for visits with extended family. It is the manipulation factor of someone planning a trip and then demanding that other’s pay to make it happen. If we are all paying, then the planning should happen as a group. And if something is a command performance (e.g., it’s our 50th anniversary, it’s our retirement, whatever), then it is extra rude to be making such expensive demands of your kids.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 10:52
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
It really depends on the situation and the people involved. Mostly, when my husband and I travel with either his parents or mine, the parents will pay for the biggest expenses. We'll take them out to dinner a whole bunch of times. If either of our parents were in a situation where it would be a hardship for them to cover the bigger expenses, of course we would do it - but that would change the trips we're taking. (They have more money than we do. So we'd have to find more budget-friendly options.)
I think the problem is when you announce: As a family, we are going to XYZ place on ABC days and you are expected to be there, and you will be paying a lot of money to do it. It's the imperiousness mixed with the cost (vacation time and $) that makes it hard. No one wants to disappoint their families or their in laws (I don't think) but being in a position where you are expected to spend money that you don't really have to spend, and use up precious vacation time, and you get no say in it - that's a toxic combo.
So just be sensitive to costs and be sensitive to being demanding, is my suggestion.
And, just, FWIW - I really enjoy going places with my parents and with my in laws. But we have a lot of collaboration when deciding on trips. I have less say with my in laws - their trips are usually to places I'd never pick on my own - but I also don't feel like they are micromanaging every second of our day, or making demands that pose hardships.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 10:33
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
You are an a$$hole if you expect, after your kids to get married and have their own kids, that your family trips will continue unchanged. Maybe they will - maybe your grown kids, and their spouses, and their kids, will love to go skiing, and will have no issue going and paying. But if they don't have the money, or want to go to the beach, and you insist they come.
It's lovely to invite family on trips, as long as it is clearly understood that they are free to decline, for whatever reason, and here will be no hard feelings. But dictating/pressuring/expecting where people spend their leave, money, and vacation is a jerk move, no matter who you are, what your relationship to them is, and whether they have cone on and even liked such trips in the past. People change.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 10:32
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
Yes adults do pay. But normally it's not considered a "gift". My parents and I coordinate on what we'd like to do and where we'd like to go. I also bring in budget because my parents are much wealthier and my family of 5 can't afford as much as they can. We are going on vacation with them at the end of the month. They paid for our timeshare and made sure it had enough rooms for us all (ie everyone gets a bed! My kids share a room). They explicitly said what they're paying for and asked if we wanted to go. When we get there, we'll pay our own way for everything else. We will likely buy my parents dinner one night to thank them, but the rest of the time we'll split checks.
My inlaws don't coordinate, so I don't want to go on their trips. DH and I both work and are extremely busy. We can't do Disney a month out. It's just too stressful and not feasible to work around work schedules, taking kids out of school, trying to book hotels late. Inlaws never ask what we want or where we want to go. They expect my kids to sleep in sleeping bags, which means grumpy children and I can't take that. So we usually decline, no hard feelings because they didn't care about our feelings when they booked things without asking.
So yeah, it's about how you present things. If you want them to go and expect them to pay (and for us the most precious thing is our annual leave), you need to make it something they want to do. If you want to go skiing and they don't ski, there's a problem.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 10:28
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It amazes me that people on DCUM have such rich families they are disappointed the parents don't offer to pay for flights in addition to accomodations. I can't even imagine.
It amazes me you don't get it. It's not like this a trip OP wants to go on to a wonderful place and she gets the bonus of some parts paid for. It's a manipulative "gift" where she is still forced to pay a chunk of money and take off from work.
If your spouse is on board, you politely decline. These days Covid is a great excuse. Give a nice gift with heartwarming card and be done. Let the chips/drama fall where it may.
Dp. Imagine if the in-laws only invited blood relatives on this trip? I can guesswhat people would say! My in law is taking us on a vacation and yes it isn't where I would choose but, I am accepting of it because their intentions are good...ie wants to spend time with us.
Op maybe you should bow out now and let your dh/kids have the fun. Maybe your inlaws will be happy/unhappy but at least you won't be miserable.
But they’re not “taking them on vacation”. OP and family will still have to spend thousands of dollars on a vacation they wouldn’t choose for themselves.
I agree OP should bow out and let her husband wrangle three kids around a national park by himself and be responsible for all child care for a week while she rests at home. I would love it if my husband took the kids on a trip to see his parents without me!
Anonymous
01/13/2022 10:23
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
Not at all! The issue is that the in laws are presenting this as a huge gift that their children feel they cannot say no to without damaging the relationship. If the recipient is expected to drop thousands of dollars on this gift, when it’s not even what they would prefer to be doing in the first place, it is not a gift, it’s a family vacation, an obligatory one, and should be presented as such.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 10:15
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
No, of course not. It's the manipulation that's the problem.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 10:11
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
This whole conversation makes me extremely anxious about my relationship with my future DILs/SILs. Am i going to be expected to pay for time with my children in the future by footing the bill for everything always and if I don't I am A$$hole MIL? Like if I want to plan a trip to go skiing, am I even allowed to ask if they want to come without assuming the costs for their flights, car, food, lift tickets, everything? My only real splurge now is our family trips and there is no way in the future I can afford adding 3 spouses and all their children to the tab. Isn't realistic to expect adults to pay some of their way?
Anonymous
01/13/2022 09:44
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:For the posters who think this is a rich people problem:
I come from Florida white trash farm stock.
When I was young, my aunt declared a family reunion would take place at her house an hour from Orlando and that one day we would all go to Disney. It was scheduled for August. She was hosting at her house so we didn’t have to pay for a hotel (but there were 20 people in a 4-bedroom). We did have to pay for gas to road trip down, use my parent’s PTO, and pay for Disney tickets, which were way out of budget for our family. All the rest of the family members were FL residents so they all had a friend-of-a-friend who could arrange for free tickets for at least some of their family members.
Ao my parents had to shell out like $700 for a vacation (which is WAY more than they normally spend), or go on a vacation where everybody but their own kids got to go to Disney. We ended up skipping Disney and going to a local Gator-themed animal park reminiscent of Tiger King (but with reptiles). My brother and I were super disappointed at the time but as an adult I am like “what was my aunt thinking?”
Any time someone offers to host in a way that requires a significant outlay of money, that is rude and annoying.
My BIL's family had been vacationing on a lake in the middle of nowhere for generations, and he and my sister bought a cabin there. Fine, have fun.
But then they started inviting us, and they were super excited, and we hauled ourselves and a kid (we only had one at the time) out there, and it sucked. But we got the obligatory visit out of the way! Score! (even though there wasn't room for us at the cabin and we had to stay half an hour away because it was in the middle of nowhere)
Then they tore down the original cabin and built a bigger one, and they were super excited, and we hauled ourselves and all our kids out there via two-day drive, and it sucked. But again, visit out of the way! Score! And this time we got to stay with them at their poorly constructed lake house that smelled of mildew.
And then the sibs and I agreed we should all get together for our parents' milestone anniversary, and somehow my sister talked my parents into coming to the lake again, so we all went along with it. And again we couldn't stay with them because not enough room, and it sucked.
Spouse and I agreed that we are never visiting them again, nor joining them on any vacation ever. And yes, we are idiots for taking so long to learn. I think the larger lesson was that you cannot buy your freedom by smaller concessions. And you can decide that's enough of that at any point.
Anonymous
01/13/2022 08:58
Subject: Vent: “gift” of a trip that I don’t want and requires me to spend lots of money and time
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They are always willing to pay for the airbnb--which they choose and can be cheapskates on--its by far the cheapest part of the trip compared to food/outings/rentals/air far. Then you get there and they expect all the kids to sleep on the living room floor and you and your DH to share a double bed.
^^^
Ex in laws pulled this crap too. They paid for the shared house. We were responsible for plane tickets, food etc. The last time we went, my then husband and I were supposed to sleep in twin beds that were on opposite ends of the room that we would be sharing with BIL, his wife and their toddler. Very young kids had a bedroom with their parents but otherwise were supposed to sleep in chairs or on the floor on a screened in porch.Never again.
Yeah mine have a vacation house with a huge 2nd story bunk room. All of us adults are supposed to sleep in the twin bunks. It's like basic training in the military and someone is bound to snore. I hadn't slept in a twin bed since I was 10 and I don't like bunking with my BILs and SILs. And of course someone's kid is up at 6am.
Wait, this is hilarious. Did they design the house like this on purpose? Like they thought their grown adult kids would all be bunking together?
PP here. Yes they did design it. It's a new build vacation home. It would have been cool if it was only for grandkids and adults all got bedrooms.
OMG! That's bizarre. How many bunkbeds are in the room? Its like a bad Christmas comedy or something.