Anonymous
11/23/2021 07:29
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not surprising given that most people who never wanted kids use the environment and climate as their reason. I mean, it sounds better than saying they don’t want kids because they don’t like them or don’t want to take on the responsibility. It sounds altruistic when you blame global warming while patting yourself on the back for shrinking your carbon/waste footprint.
There’s nothing wrong with not wanting kids btw.
Both can be true. It’s not a false dichotomy like how you’re painting it original PP.
Disagree.
Anyone who truly wants children doesn’t opt to forego kids for their one man attempt to save the environment. It’s an excuse for people who never wanted kids to begin with.
Why does it need to be an excuse? Maybe people just don't want kids. There's nothing wrong with that.
Correct.
And FTR, that’s what I said earlier: there’s nothing wrong with not wanting kids.
But I simply do not believe anyone who desperately wants kids—or even just wants a kid to a normal degree—would ever give that up to avoid exacerbating global warming. That’s not true. Anyone who responds to a survey like that is just reaching for an excuse that makes them look good.
NP, but what you are missing here is that they aren’t thinking about the environment in that choice, they are thinking about what life will be like for their child. If the future looks like it will be a dystopian hellscape, then having children because you really, really want them feels selfish. And you can look around at other countries and easily see that anyone without a LOT of money to insulate them may be in a terrible situation in 20 years. The competition for food alone will be dramatic in many places. There will be displaced people all over the world from various natural disasters. If it is a financial stretch to pay for daycare, then my child is not going to be one of the ones who flees the fire/flood/drought and goes to our winter home. They will be one of the miserable wretches with nothing but the shirt on their back. So it’s that vision of a beloved child having to navigate an increasingly dangerous world with the pitiful resources available to what’s left of the middle class, that makes people choose not to have kids.
If that is your outlook, then it sounds like depression or irrational thinking. Definitely best not to have kids.
Rational people who want kids do not forego the joy in some altruistic one man protest.
Anonymous
11/23/2021 07:27
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Honestly I can see how this “not having kids” phenomenon is popular. The younger people in my office (late 20-30s) are way too pessimistic, self-absorbed, and unusually emotionally immature. I honestly doubt many could handle the challenges of parenting.
Anonymous
11/23/2021 06:46
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:I think much of the problem for upper middle class parents is of our own making. The relentless competitiveness about parenting- everything is scheduled extra curriculars, tutoring, getting in to the best schools and colleges…when i was a kid we were expected to take a ball to the park and not come back before dark…
I don’t blame umc parents. It’s more treacherous staying in the UMC after you get there in the US.
Falling in ses has negative consequences that are more acute here than in Europe.
It’s literally a shift in health and life expectancy outcomes.
European moms are way more chill because If their kid(s) can’t afford their neighborhood and move to a neighborhood over with more poverty, it’s
Still relatively safe and food desserts aren’t really as common.
Anonymous
11/23/2021 05:49
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:I think much of the problem for upper middle class parents is of our own making. The relentless competitiveness about parenting- everything is scheduled extra curriculars, tutoring, getting in to the best schools and colleges…when i was a kid we were expected to take a ball to the park and not come back before dark…
Amen! I decided not to join in with competitive parenting. Mention Kumon, I laugh.
Anonymous
11/23/2021 05:47
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.
My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.
Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.
This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.
In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.
All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.
Yes, white males in this country have skated by for years on mediocrity. It’s a rough time right now for them. They are having to actually compete for things like all of us have had to all these years.
On a side note, our kids had problems early on. We did a ton of early intervention that cost us a fortune but it all paid off. Hang in there! It gets easier!
Anonymous
11/23/2021 05:40
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it is because women and men are more lazy. I say that as my mother in law and father in law both with HS degrees had there kids.
My father in law after first took a part time job 20 hours a week after his full time job, they both a single failing house with two “boarders” in house in upstairs of cape. They rented rooms. They never went out to eat and mom went back to work when youngest turned 12.
Today most men would not get a second job, take in a boarder or skip luxuries a few years so wife could stay home and have three kids. They just whine and watch Netflix and play fortnight whine they hire gardeners, gutter cleaners. and handymen to do their work whine their wife struggles to work full time and raise kids. No wonder women are pushing back.
This is very true. American men are absurdly lazy. I’m an immigrant woman who married an American man and this laggard is bringing down the family. He combines very high living standards with very poor work ethic. I was working in very lucrative job when we married and so was he. Two special needs kids later, we are in a diminished financial position. I am the one who suffered complications giving birth to them and who does most of the childcare, yet I am undaunted. I stick to a budget and I have a side gig that is bringing in $2000-3000 extra per month. It never occurred to me to give up.
In contrast, my husband’s expenses have gone up as he has added a therapist to coach him through the depression that no longer having it easy has apparently caused him. He insist that he went to school for only one thing, so he can’t learn new skills or even help grow my side gig. He works only 9-5 and mismanages his time so that his ranking in his sales job has steadily fallen. Soon, he will be unemployed and he has another thing coming if he thinks he’s going to live off me.
All of the men in my family are absolutely scandalized by how useless he is. All of the Americans in our friend group, however, applaud him merely for holding down a job despite his “depression.” People here just have very low standards for themselves. The concept of rising to the occasion just doesn’t exist in this culture—at least not among middle class whites.
Depression is an illness that can be debilitating. How dare you put it in sarcastic quotes. I struggle with it daily. Your attitude doesn't help him at all-- I don't even think you want to help him. You should divorce him if you don't have any respect for him. He would be better off without a wife like you who only values money.
NP. I've struggled with depression since I was a very young teen, so over 20 years. I've also dated depressed men. Slacking off on basic life responsibilities because omg, depression, makes the depression far, far worse. For sure, treatment is need, but feeding into it by being lazy and moping around just makes your spiral further downward.
Yes I know that Depression treatment is multifaceted- I personally have had Behavioral Activation therapy which helps you to do life responsibilities. I'm also on medication. Her DH probably needs both. I'm not saying he's perfect.
I definitely don't think she is helping the situation by having disdain for him. She probably berates him to his face and to her family members. That's why he would be better off divorced.
Anonymous
11/23/2021 02:49
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
I think much of the problem for upper middle class parents is of our own making. The relentless competitiveness about parenting- everything is scheduled extra curriculars, tutoring, getting in to the best schools and colleges…when i was a kid we were expected to take a ball to the park and not come back before dark…
Anonymous
11/23/2021 02:48
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not surprising given that most people who never wanted kids use the environment and climate as their reason. I mean, it sounds better than saying they don’t want kids because they don’t like them or don’t want to take on the responsibility. It sounds altruistic when you blame global warming while patting yourself on the back for shrinking your carbon/waste footprint.
There’s nothing wrong with not wanting kids btw.
Both can be true. It’s not a false dichotomy like how you’re painting it original PP.
Disagree.
Anyone who truly wants children doesn’t opt to forego kids for their one man attempt to save the environment. It’s an excuse for people who never wanted kids to begin with.
Why does it need to be an excuse? Maybe people just don't want kids. There's nothing wrong with that.
Correct.
And FTR, that’s what I said earlier: there’s nothing wrong with not wanting kids.
But I simply do not believe anyone who desperately wants kids—or even just wants a kid to a normal degree—would ever give that up to avoid exacerbating global warming. That’s not true. Anyone who responds to a survey like that is just reaching for an excuse that makes them look good.
NP, but what you are missing here is that they aren’t thinking about the environment in that choice, they are thinking about what life will be like for their child. If the future looks like it will be a dystopian hellscape, then having children because you really, really want them feels selfish. And you can look around at other countries and easily see that anyone without a LOT of money to insulate them may be in a terrible situation in 20 years. The competition for food alone will be dramatic in many places. There will be displaced people all over the world from various natural disasters. If it is a financial stretch to pay for daycare, then my child is not going to be one of the ones who flees the fire/flood/drought and goes to our winter home. They will be one of the miserable wretches with nothing but the shirt on their back. So it’s that vision of a beloved child having to navigate an increasingly dangerous world with the pitiful resources available to what’s left of the middle class, that makes people choose not to have kids.
Anonymous
11/23/2021 02:08
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Unintelligent people are having more children which is depressing the average IQ in this country.......I find that far more alarming than childless couples.
Good point. I have access to Medicaid info for people in my state based on my work and so many of them have like 5-6 kids….there was even a couple who have 10 children. The wife was either pregnant or giving birth each year. Just disgusting. She’s only 32 so I bet she’s knocked up again.
Anonymous
11/23/2021 02:05
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Having kids broke us financially with daycare. I would have had a 3rd but we just can't afford it. We barely can afford the two we have. We have family help for daycare but pre-covid were a financial mess. I had to get a job in a better paying sector and my DH and I basically buy only necessities. Meanwhile, my friends without kids live in beautiful houses, went pre-covid on amazing vacations, and buy whatever they need. With the world burning, the pandemic, and vigilantes shooting people in the street and getting off---I am really worried and somewhat regret having children. I think we see going to end up with a defacto one child policy with any woman who dares to have children and work being severely punished financially for the decision. I am preparing so my kids can immigrate if need be.
So is that what life is about? Beautiful houses and amazing vacations? What about all of the non-tangibles and soul-fulfilling reasons for having children. I have 3 and we were also very strapped financially during the daycare years. I don’t have the same type of lifestyle as my friends without kids, but they give me so much to live for. I couldn’t care less about having a better house than my friends and neighbors.
It’s one thing to simply not want children but it’s another to regret having them because you envy someone else’s vacations.
Yawn. So you think your life has more meaning than someone who is childfree?
Anonymous
11/22/2021 22:43
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Unintelligent people are having more children which is depressing the average IQ in this country.......I find that far more alarming than childless couples.
Anonymous
11/22/2021 22:25
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Who is going to buy all this real estate that is the main investment for most families? Declining population is not helpful to a healthy real estate market.
No one. I hate to break it to you but you'll end up stuck in your McMansion till both of you rot.
My neighbors are in their 70s and live alone in a 4100 SF house, 5 beds and 3.5 baths. They are miserable, hate all the kids in the neighborhood, and refuse to move. One day, someone will find them mummified in one of their zillion closets.
Anonymous
11/22/2021 22:21
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Who is going to buy all this real estate that is the main investment for most families? Declining population is not helpful to a healthy real estate market.
No one. I hate to break it to you but you'll end up stuck in your McMansion till both of you rot.
Anonymous
11/22/2021 22:17
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not surprising given that most people who never wanted kids use the environment and climate as their reason. I mean, it sounds better than saying they don’t want kids because they don’t like them or don’t want to take on the responsibility. It sounds altruistic when you blame global warming while patting yourself on the back for shrinking your carbon/waste footprint.
There’s nothing wrong with not wanting kids btw.
Both can be true. It’s not a false dichotomy like how you’re painting it original PP.
Disagree.
Anyone who truly wants children doesn’t opt to forego kids for their one man attempt to save the environment. It’s an excuse for people who never wanted kids to begin with.
Why does it need to be an excuse? Maybe people just don't want kids. There's nothing wrong with that.
Correct.
And FTR, that’s what I said earlier: there’s nothing wrong with not wanting kids.
But I simply do not believe anyone who desperately wants kids—or even just wants a kid to a normal degree—would ever give that up to avoid exacerbating global warming. That’s not true. Anyone who responds to a survey like that is just reaching for an excuse that makes them look good.
I absolutely agree. My husband wanted 1 or 2 kids. I wanted 2 or 3. So we agreed on two. He insists that he didn't want a third for environmental reasons. I think that's total BS. He says it's environmental reasons because he was fine NOT having a third, not vice versa.
Anonymous
11/22/2021 22:14
Subject: Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children
Asking an 18 yo and asking a 49 yo seems to be too wide a range. I was adamant I didn’t want kids, and then when I turned 35 I became more open to it.