Anonymous
10/10/2021 23:32
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Don't assume the NYC G&T classes are going to disappear.deBlasio may say they will end, but he's not going to be mayor. G&T programs may change a bit--it's quite possible testing will be delayed until second grade or so-- but I seriously doubt Adams will end them.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 23:05
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they should eliminate g&t - they should ensure it is demographically balanced.
I live in NYC. I'm born and raised here and have lived here my entire life.
They're are only 5 schools with the programs. It's literally in only certain areas.
MANY, MANY parents don't even know the program exist. I didn't even know this program existed until 2 years ago! HA!
I live in NYC too. You are thinking about schools like Anderson and NEST. But there are also G&T programs in many local elementary schools operating like a separate track.
Honestly, I had no idea this even existed. i just went to my local public school.
With that said, I truly believe there is something deeper going on than just wanting to integrate the schools. I think low income black and hispanic childre are being scapegoating and being used as a mask to privatize NYC public school system.
For example, this happened in new orleans that has become the first city with no more public schools. https://thelensnola.org/2019/07/01/new-orleans-becomes-first-major-american-city-without-traditional-schools/
There is a lot more that meets the eye and it's unfortunate the black families are being used as a mask. I think NYC is on its way to only having charter schools.
As the saying goes... follow the money.
100% agree. This is part of a long planned decimation of public education in the US. Follow the money is absolutely right. If you water down curriculum for long enough, people will leave and demand other options. And the money comes rolling in to the charter industry.
The people who have advocated for watered down curriculum (while not admitting that's what it is) are the same ones who violently oppose any school choice. I don't think your argument holds water.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 23:03
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The qualities of gifted and talented are by definition are present at birth and are equally distributed across race and socio-economic factors.
If your program actually selects for environments factors that favour middle class and predominantly white kids then you don’t fit the title and deserve to be abolished.
When these programs select low income Black, Hispanic and any kid with EFL at the proportion that they are present in the community then I will take them seriously.
I know you really want to believe this but it isn't true. REEEEEEEEE out all you want but the the data shows otherwise.
I said equal at birth not in early childhood when, yes there is disparity. The answer is greater post natal care for the parents to encourage them the sing the alphabet song, teach lullabies and nursery rhymes etc , the things that middle class parents do that creates that gap. Invest in the social safety net so these families have the means they need to provide a stable and nurturing environment.
An intervention as massive as adoption doesn't change adult IQ values much, so it's hard to see how penny ante encouragement for parents singing the alphabet song is going to do it.
That’s not true, it’s the opposite. Adoption increase IQ compared to non adopted siblings.
https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20150323/adopted-kids-average-iq-higher-than-non-adopted-siblings-study
4 points; just like the PP said "doesn't change adult IQ values much"
We're not talking about adult intelligence though, we're talking about for year olds. Adult intelligence is much more heritable than childhood intelligence.
I think you are massively missing the PP's point.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 11:15
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I always hear good things about Ember charter school, a predominantly black school in Brooklyn.
Why does it matter if schools are public or charter as long as there is equitable access?
Why does it matter if school employees have health insurance and job protections?
I mean matters to the kids, the objective that should be priority.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 11:10
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:I always hear good things about Ember charter school, a predominantly black school in Brooklyn.
Why does it matter if schools are public or charter as long as there is equitable access?
Why does it matter if school employees have health insurance and job protections?
Anonymous
10/10/2021 11:08
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
I always hear good things about Ember charter school, a predominantly black school in Brooklyn.
Why does it matter if schools are public or charter as long as there is equitable access?
Why does it matter if schools are public or charter as long as there is equitable access?
Anonymous
10/10/2021 11:06
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they should eliminate g&t - they should ensure it is demographically balanced.
I live in NYC. I'm born and raised here and have lived here my entire life.
They're are only 5 schools with the programs. It's literally in only certain areas.
MANY, MANY parents don't even know the program exist. I didn't even know this program existed until 2 years ago! HA!
I live in NYC too. You are thinking about schools like Anderson and NEST. But there are also G&T programs in many local elementary schools operating like a separate track.
Honestly, I had no idea this even existed. i just went to my local public school.
With that said, I truly believe there is something deeper going on than just wanting to integrate the schools. I think low income black and hispanic childre are being scapegoating and being used as a mask to privatize NYC public school system.
For example, this happened in new orleans that has become the first city with no more public schools. https://thelensnola.org/2019/07/01/new-orleans-becomes-first-major-american-city-without-traditional-schools/
There is a lot more that meets the eye and it's unfortunate the black families are being used as a mask. I think NYC is on its way to only having charter schools.
As the saying goes... follow the money.
PP. You must be in your 30s. There was this whole evolution in NYC from 1970s: tracking => local whatever => formal G&T which really exploded under Bloomberg. You probably went to school when the tracking was over but G&T didn't materialize yet.
I don't think we are going the charter way, they are just not politically popular in NYC where the teachers unions are huge.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 10:27
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they should eliminate g&t - they should ensure it is demographically balanced.
I live in NYC. I'm born and raised here and have lived here my entire life.
They're are only 5 schools with the programs. It's literally in only certain areas.
MANY, MANY parents don't even know the program exist. I didn't even know this program existed until 2 years ago! HA!
I live in NYC too. You are thinking about schools like Anderson and NEST. But there are also G&T programs in many local elementary schools operating like a separate track.
Honestly, I had no idea this even existed. i just went to my local public school.
With that said, I truly believe there is something deeper going on than just wanting to integrate the schools. I think low income black and hispanic childre are being scapegoating and being used as a mask to privatize NYC public school system.
For example, this happened in new orleans that has become the first city with no more public schools. https://thelensnola.org/2019/07/01/new-orleans-becomes-first-major-american-city-without-traditional-schools/
There is a lot more that meets the eye and it's unfortunate the black families are being used as a mask. I think NYC is on its way to only having charter schools.
As the saying goes... follow the money.
100% agree. This is part of a long planned decimation of public education in the US. Follow the money is absolutely right. If you water down curriculum for long enough, people will leave and demand other options. And the money comes rolling in to the charter industry.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 10:23
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Fairfax County will go that way soon. They are doing everything they can to dismantle their AAP program.
I have almost finished my third decade working in an ES for FCPS. I think it was much better when the program was GT and students who truly “thought outside the box” got into the program. Now many of the students who are in the program are in it solely because of test scores or because parents were squeaky wheels. Many of the students aren’t flexible in their thinking at all and are actually quite rigid with their mindset.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 09:06
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they should eliminate g&t - they should ensure it is demographically balanced.
I live in NYC. I'm born and raised here and have lived here my entire life.
They're are only 5 schools with the programs. It's literally in only certain areas.
MANY, MANY parents don't even know the program exist. I didn't even know this program existed until 2 years ago! HA!
I live in NYC too. You are thinking about schools like Anderson and NEST. But there are also G&T programs in many local elementary schools operating like a separate track.
Honestly, I had no idea this even existed. i just went to my local public school.
With that said, I truly believe there is something deeper going on than just wanting to integrate the schools. I think low income black and hispanic childre are being scapegoating and being used as a mask to privatize NYC public school system.
For example, this happened in new orleans that has become the first city with no more public schools. https://thelensnola.org/2019/07/01/new-orleans-becomes-first-major-american-city-without-traditional-schools/
There is a lot more that meets the eye and it's unfortunate the black families are being used as a mask. I think NYC is on its way to only having charter schools.
As the saying goes... follow the money.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 09:01
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they should eliminate g&t - they should ensure it is demographically balanced.
I live in NYC. I'm born and raised here and have lived here my entire life.
They're are only 5 schools with the programs. It's literally in only certain areas.
MANY, MANY parents don't even know the program exist. I didn't even know this program existed until 2 years ago! HA!
I live in NYC too. You are thinking about schools like Anderson and NEST. But there are also G&T programs in many local elementary schools operating like a separate track.
Isn’t nest for kids on the spectrum?
Anonymous
10/10/2021 09:00
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they should eliminate g&t - they should ensure it is demographically balanced.
I live in NYC. I'm born and raised here and have lived here my entire life.
They're are only 5 schools with the programs. It's literally in only certain areas.
MANY, MANY parents don't even know the program exist. I didn't even know this program existed until 2 years ago! HA!
I live in NYC too. You are thinking about schools like Anderson and NEST. But there are also G&T programs in many local elementary schools operating like a separate track.
Anonymous
10/10/2021 08:49
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The qualities of gifted and talented are by definition are present at birth and are equally distributed across race and socio-economic factors.
If your program actually selects for environments factors that favour middle class and predominantly white kids then you don’t fit the title and deserve to be abolished.
When these programs select low income Black, Hispanic and any kid with EFL at the proportion that they are present in the community then I will take them seriously.
This is absolutely not backed up by research.
The research flawlessly measures things that are highly influenced by environmental factors.
Take a Spanish speaking 4 year old and test them on English vocabulary that they may have had zero exposure to then of course they will score low. Even if you test a low income black kid for vocabulary, if their parents have limited vocabulary themselves then the kid won’t score well either.
Neither kids score truly represents their actual cognitive ability.
Except research on IQ is done worldwide. Nice try, though.
Is that congenital or environmental influenced IQ. Would someone plucked from the favelas in brazil really have a far shot of scoring well compared to millionaires in America?
Anonymous
10/10/2021 08:46
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:I don’t think they should eliminate g&t - they should ensure it is demographically balanced.
I live in NYC. I'm born and raised here and have lived here my entire life.
They're are only 5 schools with the programs. It's literally in only certain areas.
MANY, MANY parents don't even know the program exist. I didn't even know this program existed until 2 years ago! HA!
Anonymous
10/10/2021 08:45
Subject: NYC eliminating gifted and talented program
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The qualities of gifted and talented are by definition are present at birth and are equally distributed across race and socio-economic factors.
If your program actually selects for environments factors that favour middle class and predominantly white kids then you don’t fit the title and deserve to be abolished.
When these programs select low income Black, Hispanic and any kid with EFL at the proportion that they are present in the community then I will take them seriously.
I know you really want to believe this but it isn't true. REEEEEEEEE out all you want but the the data shows otherwise.
I said equal at birth not in early childhood when, yes there is disparity. The answer is greater post natal care for the parents to encourage them the sing the alphabet song, teach lullabies and nursery rhymes etc , the things that middle class parents do that creates that gap. Invest in the social safety net so these families have the means they need to provide a stable and nurturing environment.
An intervention as massive as adoption doesn't change adult IQ values much, so it's hard to see how penny ante encouragement for parents singing the alphabet song is going to do it.
That’s not true, it’s the opposite. Adoption increase IQ compared to non adopted siblings.
https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20150323/adopted-kids-average-iq-higher-than-non-adopted-siblings-study
4 points; just like the PP said "doesn't change adult IQ values much"
We're not talking about adult intelligence though, we're talking about for year olds. Adult intelligence is much more heritable than childhood intelligence.