Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if she drank so much that she died. That instead of being unconscious he was actually not moving because she wasn't breathing anymore. He wouldn't have noticed, but would you have thought she was more to blame because she was wearing the lace up boots? She was completely immobilized. He was raping her while she was unconscious. I'm not sure if she had done 200 shots that would have influenced the behavior of the other person who was raping her...

If she drank so much she was unconscious don't you think he was too drunk to notice his date was too drunk. At this point she probably should have been going to the hospital to have her stomach pumped. Was that his responsibility?

If she died would you have blamed him? her sister? the person that forced her to drink ... oh wait she is 24 ... should she be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor... did she know underage people were drinking....yes of course she did... did she know her date was under 21? and she was drinking with him, even though he was 17....

So to recap this general argument that keeps cropping up:

Emily Doe was drunk, so it's her fault she was raped. She should have been more aware.
Brock was drunk, so it's not his fault he raped someone. He couldn't have been fully aware.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:not sure if this was mentioned in the 60+ pages of comments here but has anyone peeked at the actual court docs and not just the media reports? i found the victim's potrayal of herself in the now famous letter somewhat disingenuous. she mentions a quiet dinner at home but was actually taking shots. she mentions her librarian cardigan but was actually wearing a skin tight black dress, polka dot thong, lace up heeled boots. she drank to the point of blacking out on several occassions prior. beer can was found next to victim at site of crime. i'm not victim blaming and i do believe in rape culture. but it's important to evaluate the facts as brought to light by the trial and not make judgments based on media reports.

not sure how those details change anything. care to elaborate?

Well you see, she was wearing a thong and lace up boots

So

She was asking to get raped.

No. But why would she lie in the famous letter?

Did her boyfriend break up with her for cheating? or is she not responsible for any of it?

But the real question is does anybody have a link to the court records or the police report?

Why do you think she's lying because she didn't describe her underwear? Maybe she took shots at home before going to the party because that's called pre-gaming and everyone her age does it, but presumably at some point that evening she did eat dinner. I fail to see the lie you're so desperately looking for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if she drank so much that she died. That instead of being unconscious he was actually not moving because she wasn't breathing anymore. He wouldn't have noticed, but would you have thought she was more to blame because she was wearing the lace up boots? She was completely immobilized. He was raping her while she was unconscious. I'm not sure if she had done 200 shots that would have influenced the behavior of the other person who was raping her...

If she drank so much she was unconscious don't you think he was too drunk to notice his date was too drunk. At this point she probably should have been going to the hospital to have her stomach pumped. Was that his responsibility?

If she died would you have blamed him? her sister? the person that forced her to drink ... oh wait she is 24 ... should she be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor... did she know underage people were drinking....yes of course she did... did she know her date was under 21? and she was drinking with him, even though he was 17....

She was 22 and he was 19 at time of the assault I believe.

Anonymous wrote:What if she drank so much that she died. That instead of being unconscious he was actually not moving because she wasn't breathing anymore. He wouldn't have noticed, but would you have thought she was more to blame because she was wearing the lace up boots? She was completely immobilized. He was raping her while she was unconscious. I'm not sure if she had done 200 shots that would have influenced the behavior of the other person who was raping her...

If she drank so much she was unconscious don't you think he was too drunk to notice his date was too drunk. At this point she probably should have been going to the hospital to have her stomach pumped. Was that his responsibility?

If she died would you have blamed him? her sister? the person that forced her to drink ... oh wait she is 24 ... should she be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor... did she know underage people were drinking....yes of course she did... did she know her date was under 21? and she was drinking with him, even though he was 17....

^^she was not moving... Sorry for typo

What if she drank so much that she died. That instead of being unconscious he was actually not moving because she wasn't breathing anymore. He wouldn't have noticed, but would you have thought she was more to blame because she was wearing the lace up boots? She was completely immobilized. He was raping her while she was unconscious. I'm not sure if she had done 200 shots that would have influenced the behavior of the other person who was raping her...

Anonymous wrote:not sure if this was mentioned in the 60+ pages of comments here but has anyone peeked at the actual court docs and not just the media reports? i found the victim's potrayal of herself in the now famous letter somewhat disingenuous. she mentions a quiet dinner at home but was actually taking shots. she mentions her librarian cardigan but was actually wearing a skin tight black dress, polka dot thong, lace up heeled boots. she drank to the point of blacking out on several occassions prior. beer can was found next to victim at site of crime. i'm not victim blaming and i do believe in rape culture. but it's important to evaluate the facts as brought to light by the trial and not make judgments based on media reports.

And? What do her clothes have to do with anything? I thought you people thought people perform actions not objects.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:not sure if this was mentioned in the 60+ pages of comments here but has anyone peeked at the actual court docs and not just the media reports? i found the victim's potrayal of herself in the now famous letter somewhat disingenuous. she mentions a quiet dinner at home but was actually taking shots. she mentions her librarian cardigan but was actually wearing a skin tight black dress, polka dot thong, lace up heeled boots. she drank to the point of blacking out on several occassions prior. beer can was found next to victim at site of crime. i'm not victim blaming and i do believe in rape culture. but it's important to evaluate the facts as brought to light by the trial and not make judgments based on media reports.

not sure how those details change anything. care to elaborate?

Well you see, she was wearing a thong and lace up boots

So

She was asking to get raped.

No. But why would she lie in the famous letter?

Did her boyfriend break up with her for cheating? or is she not responsible for any of it?

But the real question is does anybody have a link to the court records or the police report?

Anonymous wrote:not sure if this was mentioned in the 60+ pages of comments here but has anyone peeked at the actual court docs and not just the media reports? i found the victim's potrayal of herself in the now famous letter somewhat disingenuous. she mentions a quiet dinner at home but was actually taking shots. she mentions her librarian cardigan but was actually wearing a skin tight black dress, polka dot thong, lace up heeled boots. she drank to the point of blacking out on several occassions prior. beer can was found next to victim at site of crime. i'm not victim blaming and i do believe in rape culture. but it's important to evaluate the facts as brought to light by the trial and not make judgments based on media reports.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:not sure if this was mentioned in the 60+ pages of comments here but has anyone peeked at the actual court docs and not just the media reports? i found the victim's potrayal of herself in the now famous letter somewhat disingenuous. she mentions a quiet dinner at home but was actually taking shots. she mentions her librarian cardigan but was actually wearing a skin tight black dress, polka dot thong, lace up heeled boots. she drank to the point of blacking out on several occassions prior. beer can was found next to victim at site of crime. i'm not victim blaming and i do believe in rape culture. but it's important to evaluate the facts as brought to light by the trial and not make judgments based on media reports.

not sure how those details change anything. care to elaborate?

Well you see, she was wearing a thong and lace up boots

So

She was asking to get raped.

Anonymous wrote:not sure if this was mentioned in the 60+ pages of comments here but has anyone peeked at the actual court docs and not just the media reports? i found the victim's potrayal of herself in the now famous letter somewhat disingenuous. she mentions a quiet dinner at home but was actually taking shots. she mentions her librarian cardigan but was actually wearing a skin tight black dress, polka dot thong, lace up heeled boots. she drank to the point of blacking out on several occassions prior. beer can was found next to victim at site of crime. i'm not victim blaming and i do believe in rape culture. but it's important to evaluate the facts as brought to light by the trial and not make judgments based on media reports.

not sure how those details change anything. care to elaborate?

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing, my bitches. Lots of women report rapes. A far fewer amount than are reported are ever a) pursued by law enforcement and b) tried in a courtroom, due to lack of evidence or witnesses or reliable testimony from either side. This case:

A. Was prosecuted
B. Be went to trial
C. Went to unanimous jury conviction

Which means,

A: Emily Doe's accusation of rape was credible and provable
B. Emily Doe's accusation and recollections were backed up by eyewitness statements on part of the Swedes
C. A preponderance of evidence proved Brock Turner DID RAPE her

Given these facts it is incredible any of you would come here and the to say she was not raped. *You don't get to do that.* law enforcement said she was, a DA said she was, two witnesses say she was, a jury said she was, AND SHE SAID SHE WAS! So it is not up to you to say it was "a hookup gone wrong" or her lying about giving consent.

And add to the start of your list all the rapes and sexual assaults that are NOT reported. I'm sure you know the statistics better than I do on those... but it's pretty safe to say that the number of convicted rapists is VERY small relative to the number of actual rapes committed.

As a bit of an aside, I heard a talk by a social scientist a few months back on the sexual assault kit backlog in the US, and what is being uncovered as various jurisdictions are now attempting to address those backlogs by performing DNA typing on the specimens. Some of the most disturbing parts of that talk involved 1) the review of the police reports in such cases (from one particular metro region with a backlog in the thousands) that indicated quite clearly that kits often weren't tested because the police didn't believe the victim's claim of rape and were often victim-blaming, 2) the number of those kits that, when tested, resulted in a DNA profile from one or more men, and 3) the number of those instances in which the male DNA profile was matched to one or more OTHER instances of rape (either multiple kits produced the same male DNA profile, or the DNA profile was linked to a sexual offender already in the convicted offender database). In other words, these women whose stories of rape were not believed or investigated had often been raped by men who were serial rapists - many of whom might have been prevented from raping again if only those kits had actually been tested.

And again, that is what has happened in the instances where women have actually reported their rapes and have subjected themselves to the process of getting a sexual assault examination performed. Many, many women who are raped never go that far. I never reported my rape, out of shame, humiliation, fear of not being believed, etc. And unfortunately, I would be extremely surprised if the man who raped me has not also raped other women, either before or after me. My rape was nearly 17 years ago, and I still feel guilt that by not reporting my rape I might have made it possible for him to rape again.

not sure if this was mentioned in the 60+ pages of comments here but has anyone peeked at the actual court docs and not just the media reports? i found the victim's potrayal of herself in the now famous letter somewhat disingenuous. she mentions a quiet dinner at home but was actually taking shots. she mentions her librarian cardigan but was actually wearing a skin tight black dress, polka dot thong, lace up heeled boots. she drank to the point of blacking out on several occassions prior. beer can was found next to victim at site of crime. i'm not victim blaming and i do believe in rape culture. but it's important to evaluate the facts as brought to light by the trial and not make judgments based on media reports.

Anonymous wrote:My post reads angrily to you? Hmm. I've never been raped, and I don't drink. I take normal safety precautions. My irritation is that on every fucking one of these threads, it's "women need to watch themselves and their behavior," every time. Every time. It's tired. It's not the issue. The issue is that women - old, young, sober, shitfaced, virgin, prostitute are raped, every day. And somehow the story always circles back to what they did or didn't do to cause it or prevent it.

NP here: I feel you, PP. Every fucking time.

When they are scared, people try to find ways to rationalize to themselves that it can't happen to them because they do x, y, or z and the victim did not. Fear makes people even more stupid and hateful than usual.

Anonymous wrote:

What exactly are you expecting to happen? You want to be able to stumble bum around black out drunk whenever/wherever you please with the GUARANTEE that nothing bad will happen to you? Ha. Dream on.

Not the PP, but I think the desirable situation would be that if you are stumbling around drunk and someone attacks you, more blame is placed on the attacker than on you. I learned defensive driving in drivers ed. That has been useful on the road when someone is clearly swerving and/or speeding recklessly. If they hit me, though, the reaction is not likely to be, "Did you remember to drive defensively?" as opposed to, "Why was that person driving 115mph and changing lanes?"